Yes but you expressed a wish to have more representation. I'm still not sure what that would look like in Elite as you aren't explaining yourself....
I wanna ask a huge favor of the game devs for the nonbinary community
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This!
Thanks!
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I never really understood the pushback when people want to change the way you address them or refer to them, we do it all the time without batting an eyelid.
Try re-reading my posts. I have made several specific suggestions, none of which involve changing the way our own characters are addressed or spoken about in-game.
No problem, my friend
I know of no other interactions where we're asked and demanded to deny plain reality. That's probably the "pushback" in this.
1) Excellent.
2) Agreed, it would be better to have more flexibility.
3) Also agreed.
4) We once took the plural 'you' and made that singular as well ousting 'thou'.
5) People who aren't a minority often don't get the importance of representation in media. That seems to be true in this thread as well with people denying the importance of non-binary (or any other) identity.
6) Why not.
The idea of non-binary identity isn't one that most people were aware of (I wasn't until Asia Kate Dillon appeared on Billions) who didn't have the issue. Popular culture is still trying to deal with this massive underground ripple and there is and will be resistance to it. But, let's just get on with it and stop being silly. I didn't know about it, now I do, let's just allow folks to identify how they wish to identify and allow their representation in our media.
What reality are you speaking of?
I'm saying that we are happy to adapt the way we address people all the time. If you address certain people, in a certain way, they might correct you and you will comply. I feel sure you will have done this lots of times, we all do.
The plain reality is that non-binary people exist. The 'pushback' comes from people not wanting to respect that.
"They" as a singular pronoun has attested uses in English going back centuries, and is commonplace in modern British English usage for that purpose as well.
(Which is hardly surprising, since it's perfectly mutually understandable used in that way, and therefore is much more likely to catch on in widespread usage than an attempt to construct an entirely new pronoun for it - which has been tried as well, over the decades, but feel free to try again if you want)
Doing a quick check, they try to avoid using third-person pronouns at all, gendered or otherwise, when interacting with players or each other. The only place third-person pronouns show up much is in Galnet.
(There are a few cases where this leads to a somewhat stilted sentence, but given the 1% cruise liners and other such things, it's not very noticeable there either)
Quick grammar note here: CMDR is gender-neutral, but is a title, not a pronoun.
(It could be used as a pronoun and perhaps by the 34th century it will, but it'd look a bit odd translated literally to 21st century readers - you'd get sentences like "CMDR's the most notorious pirate in the system" or "CMDR wants to trade")
Until a few years ago they existed as a tiny percent of the population. Now it's growing exponentially. Either something is in the water or this is a social movement because biology or brain chemistry can't explain away a demographic shift this quickly.
I supported gay rights and gay marriage and other causes. I'm a pretty liberal guy. But this is a whole different thing and it's not about "respect" at all. Not when you are the one making demands such as this.
I think that, for whatever reason, many of us weren't aware of non-binary people. I know I wasn't. And when we learn of it, we can go either two ways.
1) Er... okay.
2) That's silly!
Too many choose option 2. It's a pretty big thing to become aware of and given how fundamental sexual identity is to culture the idea that it's more complicated than the simple male/female most of grew up knowing and being told about it can be difficult to get your head around it. I honestly understand the reaction of people who choose option 2. But I think that's also why we need more representation of the complexity in media (for all ages). The world is more complex than I thought. And that makes it even more wonderous in my opinion.
I have to say that in my native language THAT thing is at least easy one. We do not have gender based pronouns at all He/She/whatever = Hän.
He/She/whatever = Hän.
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Maybe they were just as numerous but far quieter then, wouldn't be surprising would it? Not when people want still today want to claim 'there is something in the water'.
If I'm completely honest, I have very little understanding of non-binary, gender fluidity or all associated issues. Here's the thing though, if they ask to be addressed in a different way, it is no skin off my nose to do so. It costs me nothing. This isn't a cake, that I give them a slice of respect means there is less cake. I have lost nothing. It just boils down to being polite. If you don't understand why/how someone may identify, you don't have to reject it. Just agree, be polite and move on, really, what has it cost you?
That's my point - in this game how your avatar looks is the only clue as to how to address you and this can cause the same issues as in real life - I don't think OP wears a tag "I'm non-binary, refer to me as They" in RL.
I mean, for some people roleplaying is more important than presenting their RL selves to other players. They will tell you if they want you to call them this, or that (not necesserily gender specific pronouns but Lord of Darkness for example) and it's not a problem for them - it's part of the fun.
This seems like projecting very specific personal issue into the game and turning it into a problem, while it's really not.
Or it was an issue people had and couldn't understand until they were given another option. You're told it's A or B, you might be C, but aren't aware C is even an option. Now you're aware of C, and C begins to grow exponentially as people learn it's actually an option.
If the game played any differently as a result of gender choices I'd see the point. As it is this would add as much as assigning a gender to a chess piece, because that's what my character is - a piece on an electronic game board.
Inside the game you are all CMDR to me.
Inside the game you are all CMDR to me.
At this point I am not sure if this can be discussed further openly and honestly without someone getting offended and seeking moderators to punish me for my mainstream view on this.
If people want to believe sex (male/female) isn't a biological imperative and instead there's an ever-growing list of "genders", that is their right. They just shouldn't expect everyone is going to go along with that viewpoint without debate.
I saw some Content Creator/Influencer on a video channel, he is very clearly a man and identifies as such. He puts his pronouns in his profile, when asked why, he said to normalise the behaviour of doing so. So that those that may not fall into our our 'stereotype pigeon hole' do not feel like outsiders when they do. That is a liberal guy, that is inviting, that is working to make all people feel comfortable.
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