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Thread: A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

  1. #8551
    Originally Posted by Jmanis View Post (Source)
    So, in the context of Goemon's awesome BGS trading thread here, specifically these two points:


    ... I've got a choice of two runs for my faction, where I'm trying to gain influence:

    - One has about 4 x 700-1100cr/t profit items per run each way, which I split across =~ 650t available cargo (so about 150t of each item); or
    - The same systems, but different stations, can do a run of at least a dozen items netting 100-500cr/t profit. I could split this at about 50t of each item.

    Obv. the former is much better for my pocket, but am I right in assuming the latter is better in terms of influence (twelve different items shipped, versus four different items)?

    To give more detail, the first run is Extraction<->Industrial, so I'm taking gold, palladium, silver, cobalt, and returning with narcotics, personal weapons and a couple varieties of other low profit items like clothing, domestic appliances etc.

    The second run is Agricultural<->Industrial, which opens up a bunch more options to ship back, but also means I can take a much larger variety of lower-profit items (all fresh foods, natural fabrics, tobacco, beer, imperial slaves etc).

    The options available for the return run from the industrial colony back are fairly consistent (around 8 items).
    it's all about transactions per time, and the most time intensive element of a trade run is docking/undocking by far, so my immediate answer would be, you'd be better off with a) - assuming you don't have to do 10+ jumps.

    have in mind my test was conducted in a single system, testing single runs. the curves "per item-type" might look different in a larger population system, but i doubt that this would make up for the additional time you need for docking at several source stations. also note, that with a cutter you can get close to the maximum influence effect of tonnage before that curve saturates quickly at ~180 t/commodity. this obviously looks different if you trade in a python (or lately a cobra) like me. up to 100t per commodity you are clearly better off with bringing a bunch of them.

    last: there is a pretty solid cap on influence gains by trade per single run. as said this might be harder to reach in large population systems. but generally my own conclusion from testing the influence effect of trading was to spend less time on trading, use smaller ships, and to fill 16 - 32 t racks even on my bountyhunters every time i dock, as it is very easy to hit the cap.

    so, i definetly would go for a).
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  2. #8552
    Yesterday we decided to test the 'handing in combat bonds in other systems.' In a low population system where no bounties were handed in and the total ship count was less than 10, the faction in war elsewhere.... jumped 5.5% at the tick.

    That was a surprise.

  3. #8553
    Originally Posted by daman View Post (Source)
    well thats obv weird. what it does do is allow for a very quick turnaround of winning multiple stations off an opppnent if thats your aim. in fact there are multiple reasons this can be useful to dance up and down influence table quickly.

    thanks
    favourite tool for winning stations by retreat. make sure non-native faction meets winning conditions of +5% on the assets-change-hands-tick, and use the following tick to drive them down to zero.
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  4. #8554
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    favourite tool for winning stations by retreat. make sure non-native faction meets winning conditions of +5% on the assets-change-hands-tick, and use the following tick to drive them down to zero.
    does this give any particular advantage. you kick them out the system, but you could also have won first and also kicked them out the system?

    Rumoured to be part of the underground abolitionist movement the Galactic Railroad. Real name not Daman. But does fly a diamondback scout. Sometimes.

    Cmdr. Brown - Read about the Hero of Hraean

  5. #8555
    Originally Posted by daman View Post (Source)
    does this give any particular advantage. you kick them out the system, but you could also have won first and also kicked them out the system?
    it's a tool for winning stations where you are already controlling the system itself, and don't want to match influence to gain another station, or you want to gain a station without conflict involving your faction. you gain the station, because as a controlling faction you gain all assets of a retreating faction. your faction does not have to be involved in the war at all - you can spend those ticks expanding or on a conflict in another system. of course there need to be a non-native faction in the system, and further it is easier with a station having a blackmarket (to force a retreat after the war). but especially with outposts and typically low influence of all other factions with a player backed minor faction present, it works nicely.
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  6. #8556
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    it's a tool for winning stations where you are already controlling the system itself, and don't want to match influence or you want to gain a station without confluct for your faction. you gain the station, because as a controlling faction you gain all assets of a retreating faction. your faction does not have to be involved in the war at all - you can spend those ticks expanding or on a conflict in another system.
    very nice. i wonder what would happen if that faction in retreat was actually the controlling faction. would be difficult to engineer but could happen.

    Rumoured to be part of the underground abolitionist movement the Galactic Railroad. Real name not Daman. But does fly a diamondback scout. Sometimes.

    Cmdr. Brown - Read about the Hero of Hraean

  7. #8557
    Originally Posted by daman View Post (Source)
    very nice. i wonder what would happen if that faction in retreat was actually the controlling faction. would be difficult to engineer but could happen.
    the faction with most influence would gain all assets - CI did test that.

    i wonder, whether this also applies to above ... did anybody ever test the transfer of assets after retreat, with some other than the controlling faction retreating and a third faction being the faction with most influence?
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  8. #8558
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    the faction with most influence would gain all assets - CI did test that.

    i wonder, whether this also applies to above ... did anybody ever test the transfer of assets after retreat, with some other than the controlling faction retreating and a third faction being the faction with most influence?
    sounds like a potential new case study

    Rumoured to be part of the underground abolitionist movement the Galactic Railroad. Real name not Daman. But does fly a diamondback scout. Sometimes.

    Cmdr. Brown - Read about the Hero of Hraean

  9. #8559
    A chap got me thinking on another thread

    I was wondering how do you force an Anrchy faction out of a system that it has expanded in to.

    Once it is a say 1% how do you force a retreat state if it has no land assets or stations and does not contrl teh system it expanded to?
    "It had begun with Ben Ryder, who had traded almost exclusively using shot-up pirate ships. Ben had lived life on the edge, and one day, one night, one star year, he had not returned" Ben's Keyboard controls PDF & Quick Start Guide updated 5 August 14

  10. #8560
    Originally Posted by Ben Ryder View Post (Source)
    A chap got me thinking on another thread

    I was wondering how do you force an Anrchy faction out of a system that it has expanded in to.

    Once it is a say 1% how do you force a retreat state if it has no land assets or stations and does not contrl teh system it expanded to?
    Key to getting a faction to "successfully" retreat is to do lots of stuff for everyone else and nothing for that faction. Rather than any active opposition

  11. #8561
    So rather than just support you prefered faction do stuff for everyone? Could you have the same success speed just by backing your peferd faction?

    Is it a maths thing where all others go up a bit and force the one you want out?

    Just a bit interested in the mechanic / logic

    Woudl a focus on bounty hunting be a wasted effort to push teh anarchy faction out?
    "It had begun with Ben Ryder, who had traded almost exclusively using shot-up pirate ships. Ben had lived life on the edge, and one day, one night, one star year, he had not returned" Ben's Keyboard controls PDF & Quick Start Guide updated 5 August 14

  12. #8562
    Originally Posted by Ben Ryder View Post (Source)
    So rather than just support you prefered faction do stuff for everyone? Could you have the same success speed just by backing your peferd faction?

    Is it a maths thing where all others go up a bit and force the one you want out?

    Just a bit interested in the mechanic / logic

    Woudl a focus on bounty hunting be a wasted effort to push teh anarchy faction out?
    On the bounty hunting note: That has no specific impact on anarchy factions. The only thing that occurs when you bounty hunt is:
    * -ve inf for the faction whose ship you destroyed
    * +ve inf for the faction who rewards the bounty.

    If you strictly adhered to targetting only the anarchy faction's ships, you might get an effect, but +ve inf gains are much more pronounced for a faction with low influence. Frankly, you wouldn't keep up.

    Working for all the other factions as well as doing *some* negative actions for that faction (it can't hurt) will ensure the pre-normalisation influence buckets are very large compared to normal, and any increases for the faction you want out are minimized.

    Only backing your preferred faction won't cut it due to influence caps and distributions. To focus purely on +ve actions for your preferred faction gets distributed across all other factions, and will hurt bigger factions more. By giving lots of gains to all other factions, those gains get stripped from the one faction that has no work done for it.

    The difference is basically, if you only work for one faction, you'll get "the cap" worth of difference, say, 10%, stripped off all other factions in the system (with the more influential factions losing the most). But if you work for *all* factions, each faction may gain 10%, but that 30-40% will all come off the one faction you didn't work for. I've used this tactic a few times.

    What it does is add more points to the inf bucket, and what that does is mitigate any gains (which are much more pronounced if a small inf faction has +ve work done for it) it may obtain. Combine a small negative effect and they'll never get up. The other aspect is available options.

    Without any assets in system, literally your only option is targetting the enemy ships. There's not much negative you can do these days anyway since Hostile got made a punishment-only state. You're stuck bent before the RNG doing very little work against that faction. But there's *always* missions available, trading to do and explo data to hand in for all other factions in that system. When you work for almost all factions, you can very easily rack up 20 missions that can be knocked off in two or three jumps without board flipping.

  13. #8563
    working across all factions would be a really good tactic

    But you have to then watch out for not causing civil wars I imagine

    Rumoured to be part of the underground abolitionist movement the Galactic Railroad. Real name not Daman. But does fly a diamondback scout. Sometimes.

    Cmdr. Brown - Read about the Hero of Hraean

  14. #8564
    What does -ve and +ve mean?
    "It had begun with Ben Ryder, who had traded almost exclusively using shot-up pirate ships. Ben had lived life on the edge, and one day, one night, one star year, he had not returned" Ben's Keyboard controls PDF & Quick Start Guide updated 5 August 14

  15. #8565
    Originally Posted by Ben Ryder View Post (Source)
    What does -ve and +ve mean?
    I would assume that is
    -ve = negative
    +ve = positive

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