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Thread: A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

  1. #2131
    Originally Posted by smiths121 View Post (Source)
    Every time we did this we caused boom pending. I always assumed the trading caused this - any observations you (or anyone) else can make?
    Honestly, we now consider Boom to be the default state for a system with any activity of any kind taking place. Sneeze in a system with no other states active and boom usually enters the pending queue. We assume boom will appear whenever we do anything.

  2. #2132
    Originally Posted by smiths121 View Post (Source)
    Hello Cmdr,

    Any thoughts on Boom and trading?

    The Dev update and the newsletter did not tie trading with increase to boom. This seems counter to what we observed - we found with 3 players that trading was affectice in a 15 million population High Tech, 2 x Anacondas and 1 x Type-9 - we used this to increase influence (both buying and selling about 1K profit items - I think were high demand). 4000 tons did the trick, and much faster than missions.

    Every time we did this we caused boom pending. I always assumed the trading caused this - any observations you (or anyone) else can make?

    Simon
    most missions do count towards boom, so if people run missions to raise influence, boom will get pending fast. messenger missions, delivery missions, mining missions...

    Originally Posted by DaveC View Post (Source)
    Honestly, we now consider Boom to be the default state for a system with any activity of any kind taking place. Sneeze in a system with no other states active and boom usually enters the pending queue. We assume boom will appear whenever we do anything.
    very interesting. i was just able to trigger expansion without boom, by doing bounty hunting only.

  3. #2133

    Bounty Hunting and BGS - A Test

    i was BHing for a week in a remote system, to test various aspects of bounty hunting.

    here is how i set up the test:

    system has only 2 factions, and one outpost. population of 4000. it has various high, normal and low res, where only ships of those two factions are spawned.

    i was shooting everyday a fixed number of wanted ships of the controlling faction. i was only claiming bounties of the controlling faction, at the controlling station.

    - i claimed no bounties (day 1,2)

    - i claimed a low total value of bounties (day 3)

    - I claimed a high total value of bounties (day 4)

    - i claimed a low total value of bounties (day 5), with cashing in 3 times

    - I claimed a low total value of bounties (day 6), with cashing in 12 times


    How does the Crime Report works?

    The Crime Report IS NOT
    - a number for crimes committed by CMDRs

    - the sum of all spawned bounties

    - the sum of all bounties of CMDRs in that system...


    The Crime Report lists the total of bounties and fines in the last 24 h (approx), which went into any CMDR’s left hand trasaction panel.

    - if you shoot a WANTED ship with 150 K bounty of a controlling faction, 50 K bounty of a minor faction, and 100 K bounty of a major faction, this will count as 300 k in bounties into the crime report.

    - if you get 60 K in bounties for shooting non-wanted ships, this will again count as 60 K in the crime report.

    - if you gain a fine of 12 K for smuggling illegal goods, this will again count as 12 K into the crime report.



    How does the Bounty Hunter Report work?

    The Bounty Hunter Report IS NOT

    - the number of shot wanted ships

    - the total value of bountie claims, which a CMDR got by shooting wanted ships in that system


    The Bounty Hunter Report lists

    - the number of single Bounty Claim-Transactions per minor or major faction in the system. (When you hunted 20 wanted ships down, and you claim the bounty for all of them in one go, the Bounty Hunter Report will list it as “1 Bounty Claimed”)

    - the total value of Bounty transactions in system


    Which conclusions can you draw from Bounty Hunter Report and Crime Report?

    Not a lot.

    The Bounty Hunter Report and the Crime Report can tell you, if somebody is in the system without jumping in or out, but is cashing in Bounties (if you keep track of your own activities), or isn’t cashing in Bouties, but gaining Bounties or Bounty-Claims

    If you see a huge difference between Crime Report total and Bounty Hunter Total, some of the following cases might be the reason:

    a) someboy cashes in bounties from that system in another system (for exampel: he wants to push your minor faction in another system).

    b) somebody is not cashing in any bounties (for exampel - those of the other minor factions, because he wants to help your major faction).

    c) somebody is gaining a lot of bounties because he shoots non-wanted ships (for exampel ships of other minor factions than your controlling factions, because he wants to help)

    d) someboy isn’t a good smuggler and gains heavy fines bringing in illegal tobacco in his anaconda.


    Bounty Hunting and Influence - Chart and Conclusions:


    (*)

    DO NOT SHOOT WANTED SHIPS OF A MINOR FACTION YOU WANT TO GAIN INFLUENCE. Shooting (WANTED or not…) ships of a minor faction does hurt that minor factions influence. But if you have shot one, cash in the Bounty.

    The Bounty Value of a single ship or the total bounty value has a neglectable effect (maybe even non…). SHOOT AS MANY SHIPS AS YOU CAN, NO MATTER THEIR BOUNTY VALUE. if you look for influence gain in the shortest time, go for pirates in harmless eagles, not dangerous anacondas.

    The Number of Bounty Transactions is the most important numbers. CLAIM YOUR BOUNTIES AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. Claiming 10 times 100 k CR will have 10 times approx the effect of claiming 1 time 1 Mio CR.


    /Disclaimer: i have described what i have found. some of the above resembles the 1T-trading exploit. there aspects of it, which i like - basically, somebody in an eagle can help a minor faction as effectivly as somebody in a corvette. and in terms of influence gaining, kinetic weapons aren’t a bad thing for bounty hunting. the more often you need to rearm, the more often you have a reason to cash in your bounties.

    ___

    UPDATE: same rules apply for cashing in bounties at a station not controlled by the faction you want to back! e.g.: cash in only bounties from the faction you want to back, in as many transactions as possible, no matter whether you control the station or not.

    ___
    * influence in that chart, is influence delta, e.g. change of influence.

  4. #2134
    Originally Posted by DaveC View Post (Source)
    Boom state is the galaxy's great blocking state. Only a conflict will interrupt it unless you end it naturally. The expansion will kick off after the boom ends.
    Is there a way to make the boom state be shorten in terms of days? apart from creating a election/war whatever. In other words, what should be done from commanders so that it makes the boom state last shorter and go to the next pending state (which is expansion in our case).

    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    i was BHing for a week in a remote system, to test various aspects of bounty hunting.

    here is how i set up the test:

    system has only 2 factions, and one outpost. population of 4000. it has various high, normal and low res, where only ships of those two factions are spawned.

    i was shooting everyday a fixed number of wanted ships of the controlling faction. i was only claiming bounties of the controlling faction, at the controlling station.

    - i claimed no bounties (day 1)

    - i claimed a low total value of bounties (day 3)

    - I claimed a high total value of bounties (day 4)

    - i claimed a low total value of bounties (day 5), with cashing in 3 times

    - I claimed a low total value of bounties (day 6), with cashing in 12 times


    How does the Crime Report works?

    The Crime Report IS NOT
    - a number for crimes committed by CMDRs

    - the sum of all spawned bounties

    - the sum of all bounties of CMDRs in that system...


    The Crime Report lists the total of bounties and fines in the last 24 h (approx), which went into any CMDR’s left hand trasaction panel.

    - if you shoot a WANTED ship with 150 K bounty of a controlling faction, 50 K bounty of a minor faction, and 100 K bounty of a major faction, this will count as 300 k in bounties into the crime report.

    - if you get 60 K in bounties for shooting non-wanted ships, this will again count as 60 K in the crime report.

    - if you gain a fine of 12 K for smuggling illegal goods, this will again count as 12 K into the crime report.



    How does the Bounty Hunter Report work?

    The Bounty Hunter Report IS NOT

    - the number of shot wanted ships

    - the total value of bountie claims, which a CMDR got by shooting wanted ships in that system


    The Bounty Hunter Report lists

    - the number of single Bounty Claim-Transactions per minor or major faction in the system. (When you hunted 20 wanted ships down, and you claim the bounty for all of them in one go, the Bounty Hunter Report will list it as “1 Bounty Claimed”)

    - the total value of Bounty transactions in system


    Which conclusions can you draw from Bounty Hunter Report and Crime Report?

    Not a lot.

    The Bounty Hunter Report and the Crime Report can tell you, if somebody is in the system without jumping in or out, but is cashing in Bounties (if you keep track of your own activities), or isn’t cashing in Bouties, but gaining Bounties or Bounty-Claims

    If you see a huge difference between Crime Report total and Bounty Hunter Total, some of the following cases might be the reason:

    a) someboy cashes in bounties from that system in another system (for exampel: he wants to push your minor faction in another system).

    b) somebody is not cashing in any bounties (for exampel - those of the other minor factions, because he wants to help your major faction).

    c) somebody is gaining a lot of bounties because he shoots non-wanted ships (for exampel ships of other minor factions than your controlling factions, because he wants to help)

    d) someboy isn’t a good smuggler and gains heavy fines bringing in illegal tobacco in his anaconda.


    Bounty Hunting and Influence - Chart and Conclusions:

    http://i.imgur.com/rvrWA8D.png?1
    (*)

    DO NOT SHOOT WANTED SHIPS OF A MINOR FACTION YOU WANT TO GAIN INFLUENCE. Shooting (WANTED or not…) ships of a minor faction does hurt that minor factions influence. But if you have shot one, cash in the Bounty.

    The Bounty Value of a single ship or the total bounty value has a neglectable effect (maybe even non…). SHOOT AS MANY SHIPS AS YOU CAN, NO MATTER THEIR BOUNTY VALUE. if you look for influence gain in the shortest time, go for pirates in harmless eagles, not dangerous anacondas.

    The Number of Bounty Transactions is the most important numbers. CLAIM YOUR BOUNTIES AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. Claiming 10 times 100 k CR will have 10 times approx the effect of claiming 1 time 1 Mio CR.


    /Disclaimer: i have described what i have found. some of the above resembles the 1T-trading exploit. there aspects of it, which i like - basically, somebody in an eagle can help a minor faction as effectivly as somebody in a corvette. and in terms of influence gaining, kinetic weapons aren’t a bad thing for bounty hunting. the more often you need to rearm, the more often you have a reason to cash in your bounties.


    ___
    * influence in that chart, is influence delta, e.g. change or influence.
    omg very helpful and nice post...

    I wish we can gather up all but all information eventually into a single post!! well not post, a little booklet pdf maybe?

  5. #2135
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    i was BHing for a week in a remote system, to test various aspects of bounty hunting...

    snip

    DO NOT SHOOT WANTED SHIPS OF A MINOR FACTION YOU WANT TO GAIN INFLUENCE. Shooting (WANTED or not…) ships of a minor faction does hurt that minor factions influence. But if you have shot one, cash in the Bounty.

    snip

    /Disclaimer: i have described what i have found. some of the above resembles the 1T-trading exploit. there aspects of it, which i like - basically, somebody in an eagle can help a minor faction as effectivly as somebody in a corvette. and in terms of influence gaining, kinetic weapons aren’t a bad thing for bounty hunting. the more often you need to rearm, the more often you have a reason to cash in your bounties.
    So, for clarity:

    1. Does just killing a ship from a minor faction reduce inf of that faction?
    I think the answer is yes.
    2. Does turning in bounties increase the inf of the controlling faction, or the faction that issued (paid you for) the boutny?
    I think the answer is that it only increases the inf of the controlling faction, and which station you turn them in at and the amount (Credits) is irrelevant, just the number of times you click the button to claim bounties. This last part makes for a sad panda.

  6. #2136
    Originally Posted by TheoZ View Post (Source)
    Is there a way to make the boom state be shorten in terms of days? apart from creating a election/war whatever. In other words, what should be done from commanders so that it makes the boom state last shorter and go to the next pending state (which is expansion in our case).
    trading away the boom is said to help. e.g. buying high value goods with supply, and selling high value goods with profit, in a station owned by the faction in boom. if you got POIS "looking for goods", delivering to those t9's should also help. the claim, that all of this helps, is backed by DEV quotes, but very hard to test, and after the 1T-bug being erased, i think nobody is really clear am how influence, economic state and bulk trading do work together.

    Originally Posted by Abil Midena View Post (Source)
    So, for clarity:

    1. Does just killing a ship from a minor faction reduce inf of that faction?
    I think the answer is yes.
    2. Does turning in bounties increase the inf of the controlling faction, or the faction that issued (paid you for) the boutny?
    I think the answer is that it only increases the inf of the controlling faction, and which station you turn them in at and the amount (Credits) is irrelevant, just the number of times you click the button to claim bounties. This last part makes for a sad panda.
    1. yes. obviously, if you gain fines/bounties during that process, it has a bunch of side-effects. for exampel: nuking influence of the controlling faction by shooting system security ships adds up a) shooting ships of that minor faction b) gaining fines/bounties. also, if you go bounty hunting for getting rid of a lockdown, but don#t want to raise influence of your faction, you can simply hunt your own factions wanted ships. at least if you don't want to do those dark arts BGS, you do know now, that you can simply hunt wanted ships of the faction, which influence you want to hurt.

    2. amount of credits/bounty value is neglectable, if not even irrelevat. you can't claim single bounties like selling 1T at a time, but yeah - sad panda, because bounty hunting for the BGS means "you shall dock a lot, to claim your bounties, no matter the value". atm I'm testing exactly the effect of minor faction bounties, whether claiming those raise the influence of the minor faction or of the controlling faction. i think both is possible, i will report back.

  7. #2137
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    trading away the boom is said to help. e.g. buying high value goods with supply, and selling high value goods with profit, in a station owned by the faction in boom. if you got POIS "looking for goods", delivering to those t9's should also help. the claim, that all of this helps, is backed by DEV quotes, but very hard to test, and after the 1T-bug being erased, i think nobody is really clear am how influence, economic state and bulk trading do work together.



    1. yes. obviously, if you gain fines/bounties during that process, it has a bunch of side-effects. for exampel: nuking influence of the controlling faction by shooting system security ships adds up a) shooting ships of that minor faction b) gaining fines/bounties. also, if you go bounty hunting for getting rid of a lockdown, but don#t want to raise influence of your faction, you can simply hunt your own factions wanted ships. at least if you don't want to do those dark arts BGS, you do know now, that you can simply hunt wanted ships of the faction, which influence you want to hurt.

    2. amount of credits/bounty value is neglectable, if not even irrelevat. you can't claim single bounties like selling 1T at a time, but yeah - sad panda, because bounty hunting for the BGS means "you shall dock a lot, to claim your bounties, no matter the value". atm I'm testing exactly the effect of minor faction bounties, whether claiming those raise the influence of the minor faction or of the controlling faction. i think both is possible, i will report back.

    some of our guys have been doing some tests after the 1T bug fix....I will let you know of the outcomes soon (notTM)

  8. #2138
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    ...that you can simply hunt wanted ships of the faction, which influence you want to hurt...
    Yeah, I actually just got back from trying that. I spent 30 min at nav beacon. Saw 0 wanted ships for faction I'm hunting (they are the controlling faction). Spent 30 min in SC and 3 USS, saw 0 wanted ships for faction I'm hunting. There are no Res sites of any kind in the system. Kill sys auth seems the only option.

    FWIW, about 75% of the system traffic was PP ships (it's a control system for ALD). At least the PP players are well fed.

  9. #2139
    Hello CMDRs,

    I have another question : how to influence the creation of a black market in a specific station ?

    Thank you in advance for your good advices.

    o7

  10. #2140
    Originally Posted by HecklerThrob View Post (Source)
    Hello CMDRs,

    I have another question : how to influence the creation of a black market in a specific station ?

    Thank you in advance for your good advices.

    o7
    black market is a service of a station/outpost, as we have learned from the station-building cg's. either that station/outpost has this feature, or it doesn't (like rearm, repair). there isn't really something you can do about it, i think.

    only if a station has that feature, but it isn't available atm, the blackmarket might be blocked by either powerplay, or the station controlling minor faction. flipping it to another minor faction, for exampel an anarchy, will re-open the black market. i don't know of a list which goverment-type opens up black markets, but the effect could be seen recently in gilya (flipping the system from gilya vision organization to gilya resistance has brought back a black market, which used to be there under a dictatorship). i somehow remember, that anarchistic minor factions always have a black market - independent of service.

    ... still i stand corrected.

  11. #2141
    What hurts faction inf more, failing a mission or abandoning it?

    Which one hurts my rep less?

  12. #2142
    Originally Posted by Abil Midena View Post (Source)
    What hurts faction inf more, failing a mission or abandoning it?

    Which one hurts my rep less?
    Abandoning and failing will only reduce your reputation and bank balance...you need to take the alternative complete from the 'follow my wake' NPC's to reduce influence using BB missions, it is very effective if you have the time

  13. #2143
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    black market is a service of a station/outpost, as we have learned from the station-building cg's. either that station/outpost has this feature, or it doesn't (like rearm, repair). there isn't really something you can do about it, i think. (...) ... still i stand corrected.
    Sounds complicated to force it "manually", but thanks for the info.

  14. #2144
    Originally Posted by Abil Midena View Post (Source)
    What hurts faction inf more, failing a mission or abandoning it?

    Which one hurts my rep less?
    abandoning a mission doesn't hurt a minor factions influence anymore (this was introduced to hinder taking missions and abandoning them directly), but it still hurts your reputation. I'm not sure about failing missions, i guess they still hurt influence. taking alternate offers is the best way to go! what i do is: taking missions, and waiting for alternate offers. if i don't get an alternate offer i fail them by running out of time. works.

  15. #2145
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    abandoning a mission doesn't hurt a minor factions influence anymore (this was introduced to hinder taking missions and abandoning them directly), but it still hurts your reputation. I'm not sure about failing missions, i guess they still hurt influence. taking alternate offers is the best way to go! what i do is: taking missions, and waiting for alternate offers. if i don't get an alternate offer i fail them by running out of time. works.
    Thats good to hear, because i always abandon assassination missions if the target is unwanted.

    Ships of that faction will hunt you down tho...not often but does happen..kinda wish more would..its fun when you just dropped into a station and you get this assassin on your butt for abandoning a mission..