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Thread: A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

  1. #6931
    Originally Posted by ShimEnki View Post (Source)
    Ok, say you were to identify a system in a state of current famine.

    The population is say, 1 million.

    Assuming no one else is draining or adding to the food supply, what amount of non mission based food delivery in your estimation, just a guestimate, would be needed to fill the food bucket enough to end the famine?
    Originally Posted by ShimEnki View Post (Source)
    Another angle on the trade impact question; Just ones best guesstimate, how many units of meds for instance would equate to 1 mission impact on reducing outbreak of the same magnitude on that bucket?
    the problem with those question is - how do you want to test any quantities.

    think through it. first you need a no traffic system with a faction in outbreak.

    you need to wait till the state is ended, so you can be sure that all buckets are emtpy.

    then you need to quantify the number of missions with outbreak effect it needs to bring the faction into outbreak, which requires not to play any other missions (so the faction gets into another state, which will half the outbreak bucket) - but state effects aren't known nefore hand.

    you need to wait again, till the state is ended.

    than you need to run the same missions, while trading against the outbreak, to quantify the number of trade transactions or tons.

    assuming that transactions and tons aren't linear .... etc. pp.

    so basically i don't think anyone can give you a good estimate on those numbers. especially not with outbreak/famine.

    if a faction is in famine you want to end, you'll import food as much and as long as needed to end the state (if you want that). you are probably not importing 100T a day and check, when you have traiggered the famine to end early. but if you like to, do a test (if you find a faction in famine with a market), and share your findings.

    as for the general concept of missions only being more effective vs bulk-actions of the same kind, i can for exampel tell you that around 6-8 trade missions will put a minor faction in a small population system into boom, while you need ~10-12 mining pythons (192 T of pure profit cargo of a lot of different commodities) for the same effect. that is assuming that you decide whether doing missions or gaining 6 mio in explo data. when you have a returning explorer in your group, who wants to sell his data anyway, it is of course easier to trigger boom with the data of his week-long trip...

    you'll get your own informed guesses on the concrete systems you are working very fast. still you might get surprised sometimes - we have triggered an election yesterday, which was planned for being triggered today ... instead of 9% we have won 11% between the two ticks. a mission to much? to many goods with profit sold? a random player shooting ships of that faction? who knows? playing the BGS is not that numbers game, which made other games great ;-) (longtime civ player here)

    Originally Posted by vindelanos View Post (Source)
    Shouldn't forcing a faction into retreat break a war state? No?

    So Faction is pending war ins System A, force them into retreat in System B?
    Originally Posted by Starwolfe View Post (Source)
    I have not witnessed it yet, but according the the last stream, yes.

    HOWEVER - that is breaking an active war state, not a pending one.
    we have exactly that situation, and retreat isn't pending for that faction (which is at <2,5% in the one system, and in war in another)
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  2. #6932
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)

    we have exactly that situation, and retreat isn't pending for that faction (which is at <2,5% in the one system, and in war in another)
    I am also observing the same, but it is what I recall they stated.

    So far it seems an Expansion or Retreat cannot go pending while a conflict is active. I want a bit more proof, but so far that seems more true than what the Dev stated themselves on that stream...

  3. #6933
    [QUOTE=goemon;5300142]as for the general concept of missions only being more effective vs bulk-actions of the same kind, i can for exampel tell you that around 6-8 trade missions will put a minor faction in a small population system into boom, while you need ~10-12 mining pythons (192 T of pure profit cargo of a lot of different commodities) for the same effect. that is assuming that you decide whether doing missions or gaining 6 mio in explo data. when you have a returning explorer in your group, who wants to sell his data anyway, it is of course easier to trigger boom with the data of his week-long trip...

    you'll get your own informed guesses on the concrete systems you are working very fast. still you might get surprised sometimes - we have triggered an election yesterday, which was planned for being triggered today ... instead of 9% we have won 11% between the two ticks. a mission to much? to many goods with profit sold? a random player shooting ships of that faction? who knows? playing the BGS is not that numbers game, which made other games great ;-) (longtime civ player here)


    QUOTE]

    That was very helpful, thanks

  4. #6934
    Originally Posted by Starwolfe View Post (Source)
    I am also observing the same, but it is what I recall they stated.

    So far it seems an Expansion or Retreat cannot go pending while a conflict is active. I want a bit more proof, but so far that seems more true than what the Dev stated themselves on that stream...
    i recall the same.

    patch notes of 2.2. are interesting, though: "Fixed the faction retreat state so that it only tries to cancel pending conflicts in the system it's retreating from, not all conflicts everywhere" - so maybe that is referring to a conflict from the system a faction is retreating from only?
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  5. #6935
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    i recall the same.

    patch notes of 2.2. are interesting, though: "Fixed the faction retreat state so that it only tries to cancel pending conflicts in the system it's retreating from, not all conflicts everywhere" - so maybe that is referring to a conflict from the system a faction is retreating from only?
    Interesting possibility. However most states are faction-wide, so I am curious as to how it will work.

  6. #6936
    Originally Posted by Starwolfe View Post (Source)
    You can't. Once a state goes pending, barring a unique or buggy case the state will occur.

    AFIK the only state to be broken lately is an expansion state, when a war triggers at a time it goes active the same day as the expansion, the expansion fails.

    There have been times states bug out, but you should rarely want that.


    Sadly, you are kind of stuck with the expansion in most cases.

    Thank you Starwolfe and MottiKhan. Its a shame there isn't a way to avert a pending War or Civil War. Just have to take advantage of what we got and deal with the outcome later.

  7. #6937
    Oh boy I'm replying to this thread just so I can come back and read it later. A lot of info from the OP. This is gold, thank you!

  8. #6938
    A question about Faction wide states.

    I have been noticing that missions for election are in all systems the faction is in. Though if I am right in my thinking, the only time these missions would effect the election are in the system where the election is being held.
    So why is that the only system which doesn't have Election missions ??

    It seems strange that the faction would offer Election support missions if in fact they do not support the Election.

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  9. #6939
    Election support missions are usually offered in the systems where elections are active. I guess you've just been unlucky?

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  10. #6940
    Originally Posted by the100thmonkey View Post (Source)
    Election support missions are usually offered in the systems where elections are active. I guess you've just been unlucky?
    No biggy but seems like a bug that might want pointing out.

  11. #6941
    Originally Posted by Limoncello Lizard View Post (Source)
    I think it works the other way around. Conflict trumps retreat. I'm not certain if it stops it or just shortens the duration.
    War starting immediately ends the retreat. In our experience the retreat will succeed if the faction is below 2.5% but will fail if the faction is at 2.5% or above

    We've used wars to push many factions out of systems early. The most recent one was just last week.

    The real trick is to get the retreat pending (it's just a 1 day countdown) and then equalize them somewhere else the next day. That way you push them out on day 3, rather than day 5.

  12. #6942
    The system I'm trying to overthrow is in lockdown. Liquor doesn't show as illegal in the system, but I can sell it on the black market. I was under the assumption that only illegal goods can be sold on the black market. Is this a result of the lockdown state? Normal items like Basic Meds can not be sold.

    Also, will it have the same effect as selling "real" illegal goods?

  13. #6943
    Originally Posted by Drink! View Post (Source)
    The system I'm trying to overthrow is in lockdown. Liquor doesn't show as illegal in the system, but I can sell it on the black market. I was under the assumption that only illegal goods can be sold on the black market. Is this a result of the lockdown state? Normal items like Basic Meds can not be sold.

    Also, will it have the same effect as selling "real" illegal goods?
    check the system map, and there the station you are selling it. most probably liquor is illegal with the faction controlling the station, not with the one controlling the system.

    furthermore, lockdown is closing markets and black markets afaik, so you are not targeting the faction in lockdown.

    as for illegal trade - there is currently a bug which ups a factions influence by illegal weapons trade, all othet commodities should work the same.
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  14. #6944
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    check the system map, and there the station you are selling it. most probably liquor is illegal with the faction controlling the station, not with the one controlling the system.

    furthermore, lockdown is closing markets and black markets afaik, so you are not targeting the faction in lockdown.

    as for illegal trade - there is currently a bug which ups a factions influence by illegal weapons trade, all othet commodities should work the same.
    The faction that controls the system also controls all stations in the system. Liquor doesn't show on the prohibted list, so I assumed its legal and shouldn't be able to be sold on the black market but it was.
    About the bug, you are saying trading illegal weapons only like Battle Weapons ups the factions influence? And is it all items listed under weapons?

  15. #6945
    is it in archon delaine territory? as lockdown normally disables the black market afaik - but the control effect of delaine overwrites everything?

    Originally Posted by Drink! View Post (Source)
    The faction that controls the system also controls all stations in the system. Liquor doesn't show on the prohibted list, so I assumed its legal and shouldn't be able to be sold on the black market but it was.
    this reads most unusual. was the liquor stolen or mission commodities? both can be sold on the black market, even if the commodity itself isn't illegal. can you reproduce it with liquor bought at a market?

    Originally Posted by Drink! View Post (Source)
    About the bug, you are saying trading illegal weapons only like Battle Weapons ups the factions influence? And is it all items listed under weapons?
    all items listed as weapons afaik. "tested" with battle weapons and personal weapons myself - i was gaining influence for factions i wanted to hurt. patched out in 2.3. (see beta patch notes). only applies to illegal trade ofc, which should hurt the station controlling factions influence, but currently in case of weapons it ups their influence. legal trade isn't affected at all by this.
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