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Thread: Buckyball Racing Club

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by drakhyr View Post (Source)
    There are a couple of bits I'd welcome some wider views on, coming from the recent races and some discussions about future ones

    Jokers
    I'm really pleased that people liked the joker idea. It was a fairly last minute, spure of the moment thing, introduced as others here have pointed out, to get around the fact that there was otherwise no need to ditch shields in my short jump range race which made it too far too "safe" for my liking. Given more time I might have fine-tuned the 1-minute bonus as I agree it was problematic in that playing the joker was probably the only way to win. I also agree that it was deeply problematic in that, once you'd played your joker all you could then do was try another ship. That in turn caused people to save their joker (and indeed their race submissions) until the end. I didn't really have a solution for that, besides which I didn't want to mess people around by constantly changing the rules once the event had started. That it worked out as well as it did was more luck than judgement!


    Open-only
    I'm actually a bit of a fan of the Open only thing. Level playing field and all that, plus I'm quite keen on enticing people out of solo and private groups. I used to hover in and out of Solo/Open a lot (especially after I suffered at the hands of the Leesti griefers) but since joining the fuel rats I've stuck to Open pretty much exclusively and feel that my ED experience has benefited greatly. Open really isn't as bad as many people seem to fear and especially with things like Buckyball where losing a ship or two is par for the course kinda think that cowering in Solo isn't fully entering into the spirit of the thing.


    Prizes
    I loved and totally "got" that EZ's bumper stickers were virtual. The introduction of actual stickers for the A* run was a really nice and very generous touch but definitely not something either the racers or the race organisers should come to expect. In the end I sent a prize to Cmdr Kliggson because I wanted to "pay forward" EZ's generosity but I always left it deliberately ambigous in the text of my event as to whether this would be an actual thing or not. I think this should continue to be down to the organisers discretion and will hopefully continue to be an unexpected surprise if and when it happens.


    Registered Groups

    I will be dropping an email this week to suggest that the Galactic Intern (i.e. Ed Lewis) may wish to join a BRC race at some point. If he accepts, I'm happy to take volunteers to join me in talking Ed through a race at some point - it would mean coming on teamspeak for the stream one Thursday evening (in a week we have a race, obviously!), and probably only works to have a small number of people talking on the stream - drop me a PM if you're interested.
    I thought about doing this myself. Race duration may be an issue here. We'd need to have a race that Ed could complete (at least once) within the hour. I did wonder about re-opening the Bump'n'Grind for one night only. In theory I'd love to be a part of this but RL timing may be an issue for me. Keep me posted tho.

    Looking forward to the galactic rally and whatever else you guys come up with.

  2. #32
    Hello. It's me again. Here is an analysis of the joker efficiency in the Outpost Dash.

    Key
    • Pos is the racer's final position in the standings.
    • Raw is the position the racer would have had if there were no joker.
    • Eff is the position the racer would have had if only that racer had a joker, no one else.
    • Final time is the racer's final time, in bold if jokered.
    • Raw time is the time the racer actually ran.
    • J/E is the joker efficiency, measuring how many places were gained through use of the joker.
    • R/E is the raw joker efficiency, measuring how many places would have been gained if only that racer had a joker.

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    Analysis
    The top ten positions were all claimed by jokesters but only one racer lost a top ten place because of other people playing the joker card. Not only that, the top six positions were unaffected by joker usage, and the remaining four racers in the top ten only gained a single place each through joking.

    It's in the middle of the pack that the joker is most useful, gaining three places for three racers and two places for a further two racers, with the three competitors who gained three places being squarely in the middle of the leaderboard.

    In the contrived scenario that only one racer could play the joker, the top nine places would still have been made up by the same competitors; only two racers who actually finished outside the top ten would have broken into it if they had sole joker access, and then only into tenth equal spot. Only two racers other than eventual winner Kliggson could have won if they had a joker and no one else did, otherwise Kliggson always wins no matter how you shake it.

    Conclusion
    While the joker did determine the final order of competitors, it did not significantly affect which competitors appeared at the top of the board. The racers at the top of the board were the racers who ran the course fastest.

    Best times only
    If we remove all but each competitors best time the table looks like this:

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    Still the top nine positions are unchanged by joker usage and still the joker is best used in the middle of the pack.

  3. #33
    That's a great analysis furrycat, the only thing that I'd add is that the joker for that race made me run without shields, and without repairing even though I had a very low hull percentage at the end. That made the race really, really good fun. Without the jokers I'd have kept shields fitted because the class 2 (can't remember if they were A or D) shields that were fitted to my courier for my practice runs didn't negatively impact performance in that race at all, but did make heavy landings totally safe.

    So the jokers made Alec's race more fun, without affecting the results.

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    I'm really pleased that people liked the joker idea. It was a fairly last minute, spure of the moment thing, introduced as others here have pointed out, to get around the fact that there was otherwise no need to ditch shields in my short jump range race which made it too far too "safe" for my liking. Given more time I might have fine-tuned the 1-minute bonus as I agree it was problematic in that playing the joker was probably the only way to win. I also agree that it was deeply problematic in that, once you'd played your joker all you could then do was try another ship. That in turn caused people to save their joker (and indeed their race submissions) until the end. I didn't really have a solution for that, besides which I didn't want to mess people around by constantly changing the rules once the event had started. That it worked out as well as it did was more luck than judgement!.
    I thought that the Bump & Grind event was really well run, I especially liked the way that you chose to slowly unveil the times as the event progressed.

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    I thought about doing this myself. Race duration may be an issue here. We'd need to have a race that Ed could complete (at least once) within the hour. I did wonder about re-opening the Bump'n'Grind for one night only. In theory I'd love to be a part of this but RL timing may be an issue for me. Keep me posted tho.
    The only worry that I'd have about using the Bump'n'Grind for Ed, would be pad blocking. Since we're normally all about blasting in and out of the slot at dangerous speeds, it might be better to use a short enough duration station to station race for a stream.

    --EDIT--

    Sorry, I expected these posts to be auto-merged!

  5. #35
    I pretty much agree with everything I have read above. For the record, I am not a fan of 'Jokers' but have no fundamental problem with them either. I am also happy not having the open restriction. Prizes - up to the organiser! I may have one for the mischief mile, if I can get organised enough

    Originally Posted by robinjb View Post (Source)
    I think something we should also think about is the last 2 races have favoured smaller ships. which is fine as long as the next two aren't outpost only.
    Like the webpage says about the club we need to be aware about being inclusive.
    The Mischief Mile was going to have an outpost in it but I am already seeking an alternate location because of the previous 2 races having outposts. I need to check that the 'conda isn't overpowered for the race though.

    Originally Posted by robinjb View Post (Source)
    EDIT:- Id like to have said something about revealing routes but I cant really without ranting.. so ill just leave it at mentioning it.
    I prefer to see route planning as part of the skill of racing - I think its similar to creating pace notes for a rally stage or walking an autotest course - so revealing optimal routes at the start takes something away for me. However, if competitors want to share their routes, who am I to stop them

  6. #36
    I promise that I'll never ever, ever, ever reveal my route ever, ever again.

    I hope that that's enough assurance for everybody!

  7. #37
    Only just joined the Buckballers and I did use someone's route, I was a little short of time so it helped get me going.

    It's kind of like having marked maps as a beginner in a navigational rally? Spoiler tags should be applied though I guess. Would like to look at doing my own route plotting as time goes on.

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by furrycat View Post (Source)
    Joker analysis
    Man my raw placing just keeps getting better and better

    I don't run the races too often (rl can be a pain), but I still tentatively consider myself part of the group mainly as I have followed it since Beta

    I also don't go in for making as much money as I can, so I have a limited ship supply with the biggest being an Asp, so I have appreciated the smaller focussed races recently.

    Personal preferences would be...

    Jokers

    Not for every race, I don't mind them coming in for some of the mid length races as I think the amount of skill to not smash your ship to pieces over 5 or 6 speed dockings is impressive.

    Open Only

    Bring it on!!! I only fly in Open anyway (except for some brief Hi-Res photo taking)

    I personally don't buy the no NPC Interdictions in Solo (technically there should be more to compensate for potential PC interdictions), but the Witchspace transitions can indeed be a factor. It's a tricky one as, like you say, you don't ever want to force people into playing in a mode that they don't want to, but perhaps they might also find out that Open is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be.

    Prizes

    As others have said I think it should be up to the individual organisers, but certainly not something that should be expected as we would not want the class of clientèle that would attract.


    I'd love Ed to get involved in a BuckyBall race, I know he's doing Elite Racers this week but they have no staying power Maybe I'll give Zac a nudge I'm sure he owes me a favour (he obviously doesn't ). Depends when it is, but I may be able to help out if you don't get enough other offers.

  9. #39
    Jokers

    There's just one thing the joker analysis misses, and that was actually referred to in furrycat's earlier post:

    Originally Posted by furrycat View Post (Source)
    When Kliggson came along and beat it I found myself with a dilemma: accept second place or try again with an inferior ship choice.
    The only thing we'll never know is whether anybody might have run again (and potentially recorded faster times) if they hadn't already played their joker.

    Open only

    I'm in complete agreement that open is preferred, and encouraged for the community element. I only ever fly in open myself (even though that has led to me being blown up by bullies around community goals on a few occasions). I'm just suggesting that while flying in open should be encouraged, it shouldn't be mandated, in the interests of being inclusive.

    Galactic Rally

    Having re-read Raiko's post from 5th Nov, I can now see the point about having separately a (points-based) championship leaderboard and an overall Grand Tour time, with the Grand Tour allowing late catch-ups. So I'm happier that this will do what's needed to encourage new entries through the year .

    Educating Ed

    I have some ideas for this already. I think it would have to be done at the same time as one of the shorter (warm-up) races, so that there's time to get some introductions and practice elements in before a 20 minute or so race lap. I'll leave saying any more until I've sent the email and seen whether there's any interest back from Ed .

    Update: email sent

  10. #40
    I think having solo parts to the event is good. if you just start saying everyone must run in open. I think we could miss the opportunity to pull some solo players into open. or maybe they really don't have the bandwidth for open.
    I would like to see the continuation of regulation ship runs in solo.

    I think itd be good if we can get an educating ed doing an episode with us.
    but yeah , itll have to be a 20-30 min race. warm up or other short one.
    the warm ups don't need to be warm ups.. they can be full races...
    they were originally proposed as a filler set of races to bring new people in or for old timers to practice load outs. any warm up I had planned was station only and open and solo.. for maximum inclusiveness.
    Be nice to get Drakhyr and Ez to do the educating ed.. because inevitably the question how did this all start will come up. ..but Ez doesn't seem to be into our races. theres a few old BBR racers that probably think the BRC is some kind of sacrilege as they never turn up .. so theres a divide there. I have to keep remembering that Ez didn't really want any publicity for his races.. and preferred it underground.. where as I think we could benefit from some publicity and more racers.
    I think Drakhyr and Alot should do it if it happens.

  11. #41

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    Possibly of interest ...

    http://elitedangerous.events
    You beat me to it

  13. #43
    I'm not sure whether it is fitting to any of the upcoming races, but i highly recommend thinking about getting "robert aitken orbital" in firdaus as a stop... that coriolis is only 0,17 ls (!) orbiting from a gas giant, never saw a station that close to a planetary body, will lead to very interesting sc approaches in a race.

    p.s. obsidian ant was covering that station in one of his videos, so i guess it's unique.

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    I'm not sure whether it is fitting to any of the upcoming races, but i highly recommend thinking about getting "robert aitken orbital" in firdaus as a stop... that coriolis is only 0,17 ls (!) orbiting from a gas giant, never saw a station that close to a planetary body, will lead to very interesting sc approaches in a race.

    p.s. obsidian ant was covering that station in one of his videos, so i guess it's unique.
    Thanks, I had been thinking about that after seeing the video. My thinking had been along the lines of doing a "Near and Far" warm up race at some point

  15. #45
    I have most of The Mischief Mile sorted out now, I am just working on the blurb. I'll hold back on full rules until nearer the time

    I have created 2 banners, which one do you prefer...if any?

    Option 1
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    Option 2

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    EDIT: I have tweaked Option 1 slightly following some feedback elsewhere

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