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Thread: The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Toxic_Waster View Post (Source)
    So are you saying that all these Mobius missionaries are inviting PVP victims to join another PVP mode? How evil!
    Mobius is not a 'PvE mode'. Mobius is a player group whose rules include 'PvP by consent/within certain rules'. At best, Mobius' group is a workaround/exploit of the devs desire that there only be 'protected PvE' in Solo Mode. The devs have failed to provide/refused to provide a way for the 'public' to play in a mode that does not strictly remove PvP from the game. Therefore, the devs primary desire is that all players, that play together, MUST have an option to PvP.
    <img src=https://forums.frontier.co.uk/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=42100&dateline=1425877309 border=0 alt= />

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Leto Thule View Post (Source)
    But open isnt PVP.…
    In all MMORPGs I played that had PvP servers the only difference to the PvE servers was that players could attack other players. Being able to attack other players is the essence of what a PvP server/mode is all about.

    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    Um... all modes but Solo have PvP possibility, but no mode that is exclusively PvP. Solo is exclusively PvE.
    ….
    Open Mode is a PvP mode. PvP combat is possible. It's not the only option in this mode, but it doesn't have to. Being able to attack other players turns any mode into a PvP mode.
    Sure, it's not a Doom or Quake style PvP, but it is PvP and everybody in Open Mode better thinks how to handle a PvP encounter.
    Being able to attack other players affects what ships and ship load outs are usable (have a survival chance against other players), where a player can go to find combat against players or where to avoid it.



    Originally Posted by Toxic_Waster View Post (Source)
    So are you saying that all these Mobius missionaries are inviting PVP victims to join another PVP mode? How evil!
    Gratulations, you realized why there are players who want an Open PvE mode.
    Private Group Mode are PvP modes and Mobius group is just a private group where all participants agreed not to attack each other (some exceptions appear to exist) and the group admin has to enforce that mutual agreed upon rule set by allowing players into the group and by banning players who violate the rules.

    Elite Dangerous has absolutely no pure PvE multiplayer mode.

  3. #33
    Oh my oh my, it just keeps going on.

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Bomba Luigi View Post (Source)
    Oh my oh my, it just keeps going on.

    It will NEVER stop! It is the Carousel from Hell!

    <img src=https://forums.frontier.co.uk/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=42100&dateline=1425877309 border=0 alt= />

  5. #35
    I ask myself what the debate boils down. Why are we discussing when PvE and PvP is present? In all game modes both are possible, except in Solo. In Private Group PVP is possible, but only if it is also desired. If not you will be kicked, if you do it. In Open you have PVE and PVP. But you can not avoid PVP if do not want PVP.

    Solo = PVE
    Private = PVE and PWP (P with P) and PVP (but rare)
    Open = PVE, PWP and PVP

    But why is it important for this topic?

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost View Post (Source)

    Open Mode is a PvP mode. PvP combat is possible. It's not the only option in this mode, but it doesn't have to. Being able to attack other players turns any mode into a PvP mode.
    Sure, it's not a Doom or Quake style PvP, but it is PvP and everybody in Open Mode better thinks how to handle a PvP encounter.
    Being able to attack other players affects what ships and ship load outs are usable (have a survival chance against other players), where a player can go to find combat against players or where to avoid it.
    But isn't that too easy of a criteria to fulfill?

    By your definition, Mobius is a PvP mode. (Yes I know about their CZ rules)
    http://i.imgur.com/rgHEfe6.jpg

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by Benedictus View Post (Source)
    I ask myself what the debate boils down. Why are we discussing when PvE and PvP is present? In all game modes both are possible, except in Solo. In Private Group PVP is possible, but only if it is also desired. If not you will be kicked, if you do it. In Open you have PVE and PVP. But you can not avoid PVP if do not want PVP.

    Solo = PVE
    Private = PVE and PWP (P with P) and PVP (but rare)
    Open = PVE, PWP and PVP

    But why is it important for this topic?

    Because there is no way for PvE players to avoid PvP in a 'public space'. The PvE players are requesting an Open equivalent without having to be concerned about PvP.

    Although I can see the logic for the request...it is also amply clear from the design decisions of the Devs that this will never occur!

    - - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    But isn't that too easy of a criteria to fulfill?

    By your definition, Mobius is a PvP mode. (Yes I know about their CZ rules)
    Absolutely, it is. It is not a 'Public' mode...but it is a PvP mode...where the PvP is ignored.
    <img src=https://forums.frontier.co.uk/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=42100&dateline=1425877309 border=0 alt= />

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Roybe View Post (Source)
    It will NEVER stop! It is the Carousel from Hell!

    Actually its more like that one at the Circus Circus from Fear and Loathing


    "This is my last drink."

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost View Post (Source)
    Gratulations, you realized why there are players who want an Open PvE mode.
    Private Group Mode are PvP modes and Mobius group is just a private group where all participants agreed not to attack each other (some exceptions appear to exist) and the group admin has to enforce that mutual agreed upon rule set by allowing players into the group and by banning players who violate the rules.

    Elite Dangerous has absolutely no pure PvE multiplayer mode.
    To have the pure PVE multiplayer mode you just need to make 5 jumps in either directions. Apparently this is too hard for so many players.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Benedictus View Post (Source)

    But why is it important for this topic?
    Because humans just love tribes.
    It's currently a fight between the PvP tribe versus the PvE tribe. Both tribes try to define what the other tribe is about as a way to show how wrong they are and that they are heretics.

    And probably because it's just fun to argue about completely irrelevant stuff.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Roybe View Post (Source)
    Because there is no way for PvE players to avoid PvP in a 'public space'. The PvE players are requesting an Open equivalent without having to be concerned about PvP.

    Although I can see the logic for the request...
    Why should they request for a pure PVE in Open, if they have Private Groups? And where should the PVP Players go, when Open would be pure PVE? I dont understand.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost View Post (Source)
    Because humans just love tribes.
    It's currently a fight between the PvP tribe versus the PvE tribe. Both tribes try to define what the other tribe is about as a way to show how wrong they are and that they are heretics.

    And probably because it's just fun to argue about completely irrelevant stuff.
    I think we are perfectly representing the two parties system in the United States, we are vivid image that reflects the Legislative branch of the government...
    http://i.imgur.com/rgHEfe6.jpg

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    But isn't that too easy of a criteria to fulfill?

    By your definition, Mobius is a PvP mode. (Yes I know about their CZ rules)
    Sometimes things are just simple.

    And yes, Mobius group is a self-imposed PvE only play group in a PvP mode. The difference is what the players do and what the game allows them to do.

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Leto Thule View Post (Source)
    But open isnt PVP. Just because you guys say its a PVP mode does not mean that's what it is. Yes, I agree, its a mode where PVP is possible. But its also a mode where PVE is possible. If open, as it stands, was a "PVP" server in the form that your side of the room is claiming it is, I could log in and be guaranteed to find some targets -- willing or otherwise. Thats not the case. Open mode is just open mode.
    By your argument, League of Legends, and the whole MOBA genre, would be as much PvE as they are PvP. Much of the game, after all, is killing NPC minions.

    Using the term PvP to refer to a game mode, server, game, etc that allows both PvP and PvE is the common stance in the industry. Look, for example, at what are called PvP servers in most MMOs; they are normal servers as far as PvE availability is concerned, but atop that allow PvP to happen. Hence, by having both PvE and PvP, they are called PvP servers, in contrast with the PvE servers where all PvP is either removed or made optional.

    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    But isn't that too easy of a criteria to fulfill?

    By your definition, Mobius is a PvP mode. (Yes I know about their CZ rules)
    Consent is the basic difference. You can PvP in Mobius, but only in a way where every player must actively choose to engage in PvP. The same way, in other MMOs, game servers that only allow PvP by mutual consent are called PvE servers.

    Of course, Mobius isn't a true PvE group because the devs didn't provide us with the tools to completely prevent unwanted PvP. Which is a flaw we really want fixed, preferably by adding a true Open PvE mode, though merely providing the tools to disable PvP in a group would already be a great help.

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost View Post (Source)
    Because humans just love tribes.
    It's currently a fight between the PvP tribe versus the PvE tribe. Both tribes try to define what the other tribe is about as a way to show how wrong they are and that they are heretics.

    And probably because it's just fun to argue about completely irrelevant stuff.
    This is the truth.
    Lower your shield and surrender your ship.
    The contents of your cargo hold will be added to my own.
    Resistance is futile.Yarr!


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