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Thread: The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

  1. #5551
    Originally Posted by Ralph Vargr View Post (Source)
    Open is Achilles' monologue to Hector. The forum's arguments are about dragging Hector's corpse around the city.

    We all know how well that turned out for Achilles in the end.
    That's actually very profound.

  2. #5552
    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    Humans are meant to know better.
    As a dog, I would say they are usually worse than we are.

  3. #5553
    Originally Posted by yodajedifishmaster View Post (Source)
    its not supposed to be PvP mode though. thats the issue. unfortunately pretty much every pvper with a few exceptions assumes thats not just what open is, but that like their experience in unreal tournament and call of duty mp modes that THAT IS WHAT ITS INTENDED TO BE. and willfully ignore the fact that arena or cqc or whatever its called now was designed for that purpose. the issue there is more understandable - you cant do anything in that mode unless another player shows up - and since there is nothing to do with just one person they dont hang around waiting. so people never actually hang around long enough in the ACTUAL PVP mode for any players to meet up and fight. PLUS and this is the big one, ITS EVEN. most pvper seem to delight in killing not opponents in equally tricked out pvp builds but open commnaders trying to do trading or a CG or mining. or just coming back from a long exploration expedition. and then when challenged they blame the npcs and frontier for being too easy - but that unarmed asp ex couldnt fight back either. so is it the pvpers fault? NOOOOO its the other guy he should have somehow managed to avoid the pvper interdiction, or psychically guessed that anaconda commander would ram him as his DC took him into the slot.

    so pvp mode - cqc/arena - is empty because players dont hang around waiting and that becomes a vicious cycle - so it remains empty. OR because they dont WANT a real challenga anmd fair fight better than npcs can do. they just want to ruin another persons game and laugh to their pals. feh.
    There are no PvP/PvE distinction in ED multiplayers mode and CQC is another game...

    But PvP functionality is a non optional multiplayer game core design. This functionality is forced by the game design in multiplayer mode (Open or PG) and it is intended.
    Saying Open is PvP or PG is PvE is wrong because you can PvE in Open and PvP in PG. The difference is a PG allows to set different rules than Open and manage members with the drawback of limited members capacity.
    Saying Open is PvP and PG is PvE is just for simplicity because FDev rules for Open does not restrict (yet) PvP engagement while PG mostly restrict rules of PvP engagement in order to reduce PvP activity possibilities and focus on PvE activities.

    Now regarding PvPers and what they want, i suggest you to stop your assumptions when you obviously don't know PvP community. We mostly want challenging gameplay and structured PvP activities with punishment and reward opportunities. We like ganking but we also love challenge (being gank) and fair fights :

  4. #5554
    Originally Posted by yodajedifishmaster View Post (Source)
    its not supposed to be PvP mode though. thats the issue. unfortunately pretty much every pvper with a few exceptions assumes thats not just what open is, but that like their experience in unreal tournament and call of duty mp modes that THAT IS WHAT ITS INTENDED TO BE. and willfully ignore the fact that arena or cqc or whatever its called now was designed for that purpose. the issue there is more understandable - you cant do anything in that mode unless another player shows up - and since there is nothing to do with just one person they dont hang around waiting. so people never actually hang around long enough in the ACTUAL PVP mode for any players to meet up and fight. PLUS and this is the big one, ITS EVEN. most pvper seem to delight in killing not opponents in equally tricked out pvp builds but open commnaders trying to do trading or a CG or mining. or just coming back from a long exploration expedition. and then when challenged they blame the npcs and frontier for being too easy - but that unarmed asp ex couldnt fight back either. so is it the pvpers fault? NOOOOO its the other guy he should have somehow managed to avoid the pvper interdiction, or psychically guessed that anaconda commander would ram him as his DC took him into the slot.

    so pvp mode - cqc/arena - is empty because players dont hang around waiting and that becomes a vicious cycle - so it remains empty. OR because they dont WANT a real challenga anmd fair fight better than npcs can do. they just want to ruin another persons game and laugh to their pals. feh.
    See FDev were told right at the start, that wihout a decent C&P system and some other measures in place to control / Limit PvP - then Open would become... well, what it has.

    You can go back to S.O.G 1 and read the first 25 - 50 pages and you'll see forum users like me saying this is EXACTLY what was going to happen. You can see the people responsible saying it would never happen because we were just weak willed players who should leave the game and go back to our "carebear" games.

    Funny how those "strong" PvP'ers that destroyed Open, whinge about the state of Open (lack of pew pew targets) and now are the ones who have left the game entirely.
    They posted a lot in the first 2 S.O.G threads demanding Solo / Private be removed and everyone forced into Open.

    Sorry, but until a real solution to trolling/ griefing/ C&P comes out - Open always has and will always be the default pew pew UT/Quake mode.
    This new system Sandro talks about may be a start - but like the speed limit solution, it isn't going to fix the issue it was designed to fix.

    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    I agree that Open isn't PvP mode. .
    All multiplayer modes are PvP modes - as there is no way to turn PvP off.

  5. #5555
    Originally Posted by Jockey79 View Post (Source)
    All multiplayer modes are PvP modes - as there is no way to turn PvP off.
    I don't disagree. The part you didn't quote gave the context. Though perhaps I should have used "a" rather than "the". My point was more that Open is far more than PvP mode (i.e. it is not just for PvPers).

  6. #5556
    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    I don't disagree. The part you didn't quote gave the context. Though perhaps I should have used "a" rather than "the". My point was more that Open is far more than PvP mode (i.e. it is not just for PvPers).
    You have the 'intent' and you have the 'reality' of the situation at odds. What anybody's intentions for open are/were have no bearing on what open is. Some of the rub in this debate come from those that want to 'rescue' open for the masses. Just plain forget that. The masses are the fodder for the worst of open's antics, bringing in more of the masses simply brings in more of the shenanigans.

    There is nothing FD can do, short of removing PvP, that will make open suitable for all, and even then, it becomes untenable for those that crave PvP. Our best interests are served by internalizing the notion that open is for PvP. Then you have no complaints when PvP happens. The true answer to all of this is to just find the environment you enjoy playing in, and play there. Leaving everyone else to do the same.

  7. #5557
    Originally Posted by Mohrgan View Post (Source)
    You have the 'intent' and you have the 'reality' of the situation at odds. What anybody's intentions for open are/were have no bearing on what open is. Some of the rub in this debate come from those that want to 'rescue' open for the masses. Just plain forget that. The masses are the fodder for the worst of open's antics, bringing in more of the masses simply brings in more of the shenanigans.
    I didn't reference intent at all. I also didn't say that Open was suitable for all. My point was that it is not simply a PvP arena (just because PvP can happen). CQC is the PvP arena.

  8. #5558
    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    I don't disagree. The part you didn't quote gave the context. Though perhaps I should have used "a" rather than "the". My point was more that Open is far more than PvP mode (i.e. it is not just for PvPers).
    Absolute, PVP is one of many aspects of the ALL Group. For PVP haters and lovers alike it appears to be a big thing, which it is not. Not trying to argue, there seem to be as much opinions as Commanders. However, if you ignore conflict, I guess many will agree, a galaxy full of life is something beautiful. So we easily have P&P beside PVP.

  9. #5559
    I think you will find that the original vision for Open was player cooperation with occasional player versus player in reasonable circumstances...

    Obviously it was naive to think that people in general would rise up above being animals in a virtual environment where there are no consequences, virtual or otherwise... But then... at least they are not on the streets mugging people. Better they stay in game... at least then ED can be described as a public service... keeping anti-social elements off the streets and in game. Kudos to Frontier!!!

  10. #5560
    Originally Posted by anthonycsheehy View Post (Source)
    I think you will find that the original vision for Open was player cooperation with occasional player versus player in reasonable circumstances...

    Obviously it was naive to think that people in general would rise up above being animals in a virtual environment where there are no consequences, virtual or otherwise...!!
    whilst i do not agree with your last sentence (that i snipped)... this above is 100% on the money and even the smallest amount of research shows this to be the case (on both points)

  11. #5561
    Originally Posted by anthonycsheehy View Post (Source)
    Obviously it was naive to think that people in general would rise up above being animals in a virtual environment where there are no consequences, virtual or otherwise... But then... at least they are not on the streets mugging people. Better they stay in game... at least then ED can be described as a public service... keeping anti-social elements off the streets and in game. Kudos to Frontier!!!
    Anthonycsheehy we are a little exaggerating aren't we?
    Some are trapped in Elite some in the Hotel

  12. #5562
    Originally Posted by Dietger View Post (Source)
    Anthonycsheehy we are a little exaggerating aren't we?
    Some are trapped in Elite some in the Hotel
    Yep... we are...

  13. #5563
    I enjoy working alone in the game. Avoiding other players is a great feature.

    Cheers, Phos.

  14. #5564
    Originally Posted by anthonycsheehy View Post (Source)
    Yep... we are...
    REP for attitude

    Cheers

  15. #5565
    Originally Posted by Phosphora View Post (Source)
    I enjoy working alone in the game. Avoiding other players is a great feature.

    Cheers, Phos.
    Same for us, after playing almost 30 years PC, we are happy, there is someone, we can avoid.

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