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Thread: The Star Citizen Thread v5

  1. #30916
    Originally Posted by ianw View Post (Source)
    I found the technical stuff in Derek's blog interesting - I've never really understood that side of it.

    Which is why I commented on your initial reply which didn't go into any detail - from that pov I need something that appears to come from a background of knowledge and can rationally, clearly point out any flaws in it. I have no frame of reference so I'm completely dependent on other people's comments on the tecchie stuff.

    I get why people get the hump with Derek - he's very good at getting under people's skin.

    But I am genuinely trying to understand what the tecchie stuff is about.

    My area of expertise is BS - I've been working in and around various BS scenarios in various capacities for nearly 40 years. I know it when I see it.

    I'll agree with you on the Polaris thing - and the lulzbuckets thing (sorry Asp ) - one might argue they are somewhat overused..

    ETA - various spelling corrections
    The problem with game engine (or any framework) stuff is that it is very technical. The usual laws of layman's common sense do not always apply, some terminology and thinking can seem like nonsense or BS , even though it is not.

    Currently, I am wondering about 1500's interest in Ben's comments, and wondering if he knows the difference between a virtual override function and an interface implementation (in programming terms)..... (it does have relevance )

  2. #30917
    Originally Posted by Ben Parry View Post (Source)
    No you don't, I was talking about Lumberyard. But OK, any post where he expounds on the technical challenges, possibility/impossibility of the 64-bit (sigh, double-precision-floating-point) conversion, I would class as "claiming in-depth knowledge" given the degree of certainty he expresses in his conclusions.
    I mean I think we agree on some level, Derek knows bloody nothing about CryEngine and his "sources" only serve to muddle him further. Perhaps we're not so different after all.

    - - - Updated - - -


    What sorcery is this
    Lumberyard is Cryengine

    Yes, we agree, I don't think DS has much knowledge of LY/CE. He does have general knowledge of game engines (by making his own), and probability knows more about many aspects of that then you do. Only because he has had to work on all aspects of a games code by making an engine, while you have not (as far as my knowledge goes). And you have even claimed to not have that kind of knowledge.

    Throwing stones because of a version number seems odd, its not like you have gotten that kind of info wrong right?

    "Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life, probably have very sad death, but at least there is symmetry."

    "She's a beautiful ship. Shapely, seductive. I'm gonna fly her brains out." --Captain Zapp Brannigan

  3. #30918
    Well getting off of the topic of DS and onto the engine change. So Ben what changed your mind from a year ago?

    Sept 2015
    "Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life, probably have very sad death, but at least there is symmetry."

    "She's a beautiful ship. Shapely, seductive. I'm gonna fly her brains out." --Captain Zapp Brannigan

  4. #30919
    I don't think he changed his mind. If you read that post from Sep 2015 and take a look at what CIG has done with the switch to Lumberyard, it clearly fits into "before i re-invent the wheel I'm going to go through their version of the feature, and see if those features make sense" or "short-cutting the R&D and complex-inner-workings time by having the "new" feature come from the engine".

    Basically what CIG has done.

  5. #30920
    Gotta admit, that last screen from dear ben seems pretty contradictory from what he has been saying recently.

    going from CE 3.7 ( star engine ) to 3.8 is a nono from your own words shown up there, but going from star engine ( modified 3.7 CE ) to lumberyard, ( modified 3.8 CE ) is easy peacy.

    care to explain ?

  6. #30921
    Originally Posted by 1500 View Post (Source)
    Lumberyard is Cryengine

    Yes, we agree, I don't think DS has much knowledge of LY/CE. He does have general knowledge of game engines (by making his own), and probability knows more about many aspects of that then you do. Only because he has had to work on all aspects of a games code by making an engine, while you have not (as far as my knowledge goes). And you have even claimed to not have that kind of knowledge.

    Throwing stones because of a version number seems odd, its not like you have had that kind of info wrong right?

    https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...FBh-G1Rw1-cv3o
    Is this meant to be... some kind of gotcha? I will 100% cop to not knowing whether a version is still in test or whether it's released. But if I'd said the PU was launched in version SC 1.6, then said a bunch of other authoritative stuff about, I dunno, some of the ships... maybe you'd wonder if I knew as much as I thought I did.
    Originally Posted by 1500 View Post (Source)
    Well getting off of the topic of DS and onto the engine change. So Ben what changed your mind from a year ago?

    Sept 2015
    https://i.imgur.com/AEeQ5cI.png
    Ok, so here's me a year ago saying we'd want to move away from full point updates applied to the whole engine, and in favour of a kind of rewriting-by-copypaste. In the last few pages of this thread, I'm talking about the engine switch in terms of a large buffet of features that we can take what we want from. The trick with quote-mining is you're meant to find conflicting quotes .

  7. #30922
    Originally Posted by Hi-Ban View Post (Source)
    I don't think he changed his mind. If you read that post from Sep 2015 and take a look at what CIG has done with the switch to Lumberyard, it clearly fits into "before i re-invent the wheel I'm going to go through their version of the feature, and see if those features make sense" or "short-cutting the R&D and complex-inner-workings time by having the "new" feature come from the engine".

    Basically what CIG has done.
    And what about You?What makes you and rest of the CIG"GUARDIANS"to accept LY as way better choice?When Rilzi open this thread a year ago https://forums.robertsspaceindustrie...game-engine/p1 I bet that You&Orlando and the rest of the "faithful"citizens vote agains LY em I correct?

  8. #30923
    Originally Posted by Zyll Goliath View Post (Source)
    And what about You?What makes you and rest of the CIG"GUARDIANS"to accept LY as way better choice?
    Better choice than what?

  9. #30924
    Originally Posted by Remus View Post (Source)
    Gotta admit, that last screen form dear ben seems pretty contradictory from what he has been saying recently.

    going from CE 3.7 ( star engine ) to 3.8 is a nono from your own words shown up there, but going from star engine ( modified 3.7 CE ) to lumberyard, ( modified 3.8 CE ) is easy peacy.

    care to explain ?
    I think I explained further up, but it's probably buried.
    If your modifications are relative to 3.7, and their modifications start diverging at 3.8, then switching from "modded 3.7 CryEngine" to "modded 3.7 Lumberyard" is no changes, because you're at a point before theirs diverged.

  10. #30925
    Originally Posted by Stormprooter View Post (Source)
    The problem with game engine (or any framework) stuff is that it is very technical. The usual laws of layman's common sense do not always apply, some terminology and thinking can seem like nonsense or BS , even though it is not.
    For clarity's sake my refernce to BS in that particular exchange was relating to the 3.0 at the end of the year thing (there are many many other things in this whole saga that would also fit the bill - but in this instance that's the specific thing).

    That said even if you have zero knowledge about a subject it's surprisingly easy to spot commonly used techniques, phrases, inconsistencies and other verbal sleights of hand that get deployed when someone is being economical with the truth.

    Especially when you've been observing their output for years - in this case CR and CIG for the avoidance of doubt.

    ETA - spelling - again.

  11. #30926
    Originally Posted by Ben Parry View Post (Source)
    Is this meant to be... some kind of gotcha? I will 100% cop to not knowing whether a version is still in test or whether it's released. But if I'd said the PU was launched in version SC 1.6, then said a bunch of other authoritative stuff about, I dunno, some of the ships... maybe you'd wonder if I knew as much as I thought I did.

    Ok, so here's me a year ago saying we'd want to move away from full point updates applied to the whole engine, and in favour of a kind of rewriting-by-copypaste. In the last few pages of this thread, I'm talking about the engine switch in terms of a large buffet of features that we can take what we want from. The trick with quote-mining is you're meant to find conflicting quotes .
    You mean like you did in this thread? Yes you don't know what version SC is on, but talk about authority of aspects you have no connection with. Seems like a glass house to me.

    Nope I showed you saying that upgrading is a real pain, and now you are saying its supper easy. Only thing that has changed is what CIG has done. Interesting how it was too much of a pain then, but its super easy now.
    "Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life, probably have very sad death, but at least there is symmetry."

    "She's a beautiful ship. Shapely, seductive. I'm gonna fly her brains out." --Captain Zapp Brannigan

  12. #30927
    Originally Posted by Ben Parry View Post (Source)
    I think I explained further up, but it's probably buried.
    If your modifications are relative to 3.7, and their modifications start diverging at 3.8, then switching from "modded 3.7 CryEngine" to "modded 3.7 Lumberyard" is no changes, because you're at a point before theirs diverged.
    I thought that lumberyard was CE 3.8, plus starengine and lumberyard asside from the core which is Cryengine, dont share any of the changes that relate to each other.

    At least that is what I know.
    you contradict yourself in one sentence, you yourself claim that LY is 3.8 + mods, and then claims that there is no problem to switch to LY beacause it is 3.7 + mods. Sorry Ben but I honestly don't undertand what you are trying to achieve here. I'm dumb so you will have to speak in laimans terms and not in some techie obscure lingo if you want people like me to understand.

    So far I know that 3.7 and 3.8 are different, if you ad mods to each one they are even more different. Why are you claiming that it is not the case ? Found a way to put a square in a triangle ? Care to share ? I really want to know.

    And yes, in the previous screen post you contradict yourself.

  13. #30928
    Originally Posted by 1500 View Post (Source)
    You mean like you did in this thread? Yes you don't know what version SC is on, but talk about authority of aspects you have no connection with. Seems like a glass house to me.

    Nope I showed you saying that upgrading is a real pain, and now you are saying its supper easy. Only thing that has changed is what CIG has done. Interesting how it was too much of a pain then, but its super easy now.
    Still no. This is starting to get tedious.
    Switching is easy, full-version upgrading is hard.
    Switching at a point after the upgrades have diverged is extra hard.
    What's been done is switching.
    So it wasn't hard.

  14. #30929
    Originally Posted by Hi-Ban View Post (Source)
    Better choice than what?
    Then butchered CE AkA Star Engine?Pls enlighten us What was it?

  15. #30930
    Originally Posted by Ben Parry View Post (Source)
    Still no. This is starting to get tedious.
    Switching is easy, full-version upgrading is hard. 3.8 IS and upgrade to 3.7, Star engine is 3.7, LY is 3.8, you are switching to an upgraded engine, in a previous post you stated that it was like REALLY hard to do, but here you claim it is not. What gives ?
    Switching at a point after the upgrades have diverged is extra hard. LY mods from CE are not the same mods as star engine, so you agree that it is going to be a difficult transition ?
    What's been done is switching.
    So it wasn't hard.switching to an upgraded version of CE, which from your own words is really difficult. But now you say it is not ?
    I'm confused

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