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Thread: 2.2 and Imperial Slaves

  1. #1

    2.2 and Imperial Slaves

    I'll start this thread with the note that I'm not desirous to be antagonistic with this post, and I hope that respondents are not either. Let's keep this light-hearted, folks.




    Regarding announcements made at GamesCom about 2.2, Federal Admiral Sandro Sammarco (yes, I'm teasing) answered the question:
    "Are we going to need some kind of passenger cabin for slave trading?"

    He answered:
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco
    No, because passengers are passengers, and slaves are slaves. And we don’t fit our cabins with manacles. So if you want to take slaves, do it like everyone else, don’t be silly about it, put them in the cryopods, that’s where they belong. Slavery is very bad, and you shouldn’t be slavers, I just want to put that out there as well. But if you’re going to do it, at least do it right, keep them in the pods. The passenger cabins are for free people.


    We forgive your Federal leanings, but treating slaves thus runs contra to Imperial Standards - something we Imperials have forgiven because current game mechanics have not permitted anything else until now. We reject the idea that slaves should be stuffed in cryopods, and require better accommodations for Imperial Slaves.



    As stated by Michael Brookes in the Elite: Dangerous Fiction Diary #4:
    Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
    In Imperial Society, you can trade slaves, although their rights remain. Just because you sold a slave to someone else, the person that bought them, they have to take the same care of them as you did. And that includes the transportation, which is something we’ll be looking into a little bit more in the game design. But within the Empire you can’t just stick them in a cargo pod, freeze them, and transport them. You have to transport them with a decent level of care. But as I say, that’s something that is going to be looked into more, and is actually a topic for the DDF sometime in the future.

    David Braben made this statement regarding Imperial Slavery that is also worth mentioning here:
    Originally Posted by David Braben
    Imperial slavery is not unlike signing up to the army. You do what they say for a fixed period of time - and how acceptable this is, is very much the equivalent of the particular army you sign up to.

    I'm pretty sure the Federation doesn't freeze its military personnel in cryopods while in transit, and neither does the Empire. We treat our Imperial Slaves with a similar standard.


    Continuing with the Imperial "rights of slaves" schtick, Michael Brookes stated in the Elite: Dangerous Fiction Diary #1:
    Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
    And of course we have slaves - probably one of the more famous things that the Empire from the previous games is that slavery is legal. Although that being said, slaves have rights, so if you own a slave - and owning slaves is a status in itself - but you have to look after them and, you know, you’ve got to take care good of them. So, very unlike the slave trade that most people associate with it - so the Europeans a few hundred years ago.


    Dear Admiral Sandy,

    Don't continue to unfairly stigmatize Imperial Slavery or treat our people like cargo. We Imperials have far higher standards. Imperial Slavery is not like the unregulated slavery that most people associate it with.

    I echo the words of Senator Torval - "The barbarism of unregulated slavery in the Federation is unforgivable. The Federation needs to pass laws to regulate slavery rather than pretending the practice doesn't exist."

    Please let Imperials protect the rights of Imperial Slaves, look after them, and take good care of them. Don't make us stick them in cryopods any longer. Maybe even just a few missions that state the passengers are Imperial Slaves?

    Sincerely yours,
    The imperial Slavers Association
    The Imperial Standard

  2. #2
    Torval is senile, there are no slaves in federation space, and there never were!

  3. #3
    Imperial Slaves are kinda synonymous with Indentured Servants in a way, though it's obvious why they'd be called "Imperial Slaves" in an independent manner, due to the role of indentured servants being sharing similarities with slavery.

    This site actually had a decent description of the difference between the two, where the key difference is basically an indentured servant (Imperial Slave) is still afforded some recognition that they are a person, and will hopefully be a free person one day after due service, whereas a "Slave" is just an object to be treated like any other, weapons, food, anything.

    So... hear hear! Imperial Slaves deserve proper accomodations!

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Conch View Post (Source)
    Torval is senile, there are no slaves in federation space, and there never were!
    Read the linked article.

    That said, this post is not about Federation slavery. It's about seeking proper treatment for Imperial Slaves in 2.2.

  5. #5
    It's the word "slave" that bums certain people out, once they hear that then they don't care about how different Imperial Slavery is to actual slavery. It's like, you see a plate of scrambled eggs and you call it an omelet.

    This is a great post with solid sources though, so have some rep

  6. #6
    Repped and seconded. Imperial Slaves should be renamed (Imperial Vassals maybe ?) and changed from commoditity to passengers in 2.2, that would be a nice change, even if it means losing the single best trading commodity in the game.

  7. #7
    There can be some real in-team lore conflicts within FD. Which in their own way is part of their flavour

    Good post, and good point.

  8. #8
    For what it's worth as a Federation supporter from an RP perspective, I think this is spot on.
    -
    From a player perspective I think it would add wonderful variety to the game, potentially really good gameplay options too, for example:
    -
    Imagine taking too long getting to that smuggling spot in an Archon Delaine system and your iSlave passengers looking out he window google where they are finally realize where they are and what is actually going on! Escape pods begin to jettison, it's a mad dash to freedom for them and to the port for you!
    -
    Or what if when you got a fine smuggling slaves into illegal ports you gained a rep for doing just that. Get too many/too hefty of fines and iSlaves won't board with you because you're ship number is coming up in local police reports as an iSlave smuggler.

  9. #9
    I'll still freeze mine on the way to black markets.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Cmdr. Numa View Post (Source)
    Repped and seconded. Imperial Slaves should be renamed (Imperial Vassals maybe ?) and changed from commoditity to passengers in 2.2, that would be a nice change, even if it means losing the single best trading commodity in the game.
    I'd like to see a similar federation based passenger called "transient laborers", like the bottom rung of laborers willing to do any job anywhere, but often smuggled into black markets and anarchy systems to be sold as slaves. They could potentially be in high demand in refinery, extraction and terraforming economies, high supply from agricultural worlds (where families tend to have more kids and they don't learn any skills) and high tech (where they are the lowest class citizen unable to afford education to work locally). Supplies would also pop up or increase after and during certain BGS states (famine, war, outbreak) in any economy.

  11. #11
    +1 virtual rep Corrigendum (I need to spread more around before I can rep you again).

    I'd love to see a response from FD on this.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Corrigendum View Post (Source)
    I echo the words of Senator Torval - "The barbarism of unregulated slavery in the Federation is unforgivable. The Federation needs to pass laws to regulate slavery rather than pretending the practice doesn't exist."
    With regard to legal protections of Imperial slaves, now with Passenger travel implemented and the chance to consider Imperial Slaves with passenger rights, also comes the chance to simulate some legal protections for the Imperial Slave.

    Such as removing Imperial Slaves as a standard "canister" commodity from the Market, and offering them only as Passenger mission "Haulage". Then a player wishing to transport them for profit takes a contract to carry some (one or even a large group, depending on the contract) for the price offered.

    These Imperial Slaves riding as passengers would be safe from sale as illegal slaves thanks to the contract... Unless the CMDR decides to "Abandon" their contract. With the contract cancelled, they would then be counted as common "Slave" commodities to be sold on the Market or Black Market.

    This presents a form of legal protection in that the CMDR who abuses Imperial Slaves must take the fine and reputation impact consequences for the contract cancellation and profits.

  13. #13
    I thought that cryopods were safer than cabins - they can preserve cargo in space while passenger cabins can potentially explode due to their pressurization. Cryopods also allow for cryosleep training, so slaves can be trained for a specific task during delivery. The Navy takes advantage from these programs to train the naval infantry during deployments. Maxwell Corp. has been a provider of special purpose cryopods for special units of the Federal Navy. Their training programs are classified.

    Soldiers and slaves don't need to enjoy the view for different reasons, and cryopods are an efficient and inexpensive solution for their transport in full safety.

    PS- those posts by MB are very old, and he said that they were looking into it. I assume that if cargo life support wasn't in 1.0, it was for a design decision.

  14. #14
    Call me Mr Cynical but I smell Imperial Propaganda at work here.

    See, the thing about cryo chambers is that they cost credits don't they? So much cheaper just to use an electric cattle prod to herd them all into the cargo hold.

  15. #15
    Sandro's comment is off-putting compared to FD's descriptions of Imperial Slavery. I hope this gets straightened out or FD comes up with a better lore explanation of what happens when you trade Imperial Slaves (other than cryopods).

    - - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

    Originally Posted by CMDR John Casey View Post (Source)
    I assume that if cargo life support wasn't in 1.0, it was for a design decision.
    Or design neglect

    It would have been a design decision based on restrictions of the game at launch. The features of the game has expanded since launch so previously unaddressed features can now be addressed.

    - - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

    Originally Posted by Bruce Warren View Post (Source)
    See, the thing about cryo chambers is that they cost credits don't they? So much cheaper just to use an electric cattle prod to herd them all into the cargo hold.
    You fly Southwest Airlines too? (US joke)

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