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Thread: Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

  1. #29146
    Originally Posted by Antezscar View Post (Source)
    hey guys, i just wonder:

    what can i do with: Pattern Alpha/Beta/delta/epsilon/gamma Obelisk data?

    have my storage full of it, what can i do with it?
    Get the Ram Tah mission by docking at Felice Dock Meene, then hand in your data to him.

  2. #29147
    Originally Posted by hitchhiker54 View Post (Source)
    I've listed out the star types found in all known ruins systems looking for some correlation to filter out systems we don't need to search. I'll be testing this myself, but if anyone has input on it, I'd be happy to hear. Even happier if someone's willing to help test it :
    snip

    I made an analysis of star temp and distance to ruin body, that showed a relationship:
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...21#post5174521

    I have not updated it to include the most recent discovered systems.

    After a question from #Xenia_K I made some calculations to include radiation from the "arrival star" (AKA the solar constant). But the relationship was weak.
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...26#post5177926

    I concluded that the algorithm used to select the bodies for ruins was simple and used only the temperature of the "parent star" and no other star in the system.

    I use the plot when searching for ruins. In a system with a M class star that has planets with moons more than 1200Ls out from the "arrival star", I can discount those moons without scanning them. Although I believe the ruins can be detected at distances >1000Ls if you line up with the target?

  3. #29148
    So is there a simple rule for how far out in a system ruins can be found? Obviously the first 1000ls you can see as soon as you drop in. Check the system map, look how far from the main star each planet is, and quickly know how many are "too far away" to need checking, without equations, sectants and knowing star temperature gradients etc?

    Actually, I've been to ruins something like 68,000Ls into a system, which were round the 3rd star in the system, iirc.

  4. #29149
    Originally Posted by Andalusite View Post (Source)
    snip

    I made an analysis of star temp and distance to ruin body, that showed a relationship:
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...21#post5174521

    I have not updated it to include the most recent discovered systems.

    After a question from #Xenia_K I made some calculations to include radiation from the "arrival star" (AKA the solar constant). But the relationship was weak.
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...26#post5177926

    I concluded that the algorithm used to select the bodies for ruins was simple and used only the temperature of the "parent star" and no other star in the system.

    I use the plot when searching for ruins. In a system with a M class star that has planets with moons more than 1200Ls out from the "arrival star", I can discount those moons without scanning them. Although I believe the ruins can be detected at distances >1000Ls if you line up with the target?
    It is interesting.
    But what's more interesting is why the generation of bases Beta larger than the Alpha and Gamma.
    It turns out that in the formula as it is present generation and database configuration.

    https://canonn.sonargaming.com/ed3d/

  5. #29150
    Originally Posted by SergMx View Post (Source)
    It is interesting.
    But what's more interesting is why the generation of bases Beta larger than the Alpha and Gamma.
    It turns out that in the formula as it is prisutvuet generation and base configuration.
    bigger bases indicates more personell, higher occupancy and perhaps higher importance overall

  6. #29151
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Zach View Post (Source)
    So is there a simple rule for how far out in a system ruins can be found? Obviously the first 1000ls you can see as soon as you drop in. Check the system map, look how far from the main star each planet is, and quickly know how many are "too far away" to need checking, without equations, sectants and knowing star temperature gradients etc?

    Actually, I've been to ruins something like 68,000Ls into a system, which were round the 3rd star in the system, iirc.
    Sorry, I was not clear.

    My plot is of distance from body with a ruin (ie a moon) to its "parent star" NOT distance to the "arrival star".
    There are some systems where the "parent star" is the same as the "arrival star" eg Col 173 Sector KY-Q D5-47. This is a multi-ruin system with the bodies at distances 1019, 1443 and 1444 Ls from the "parent" F Class star. These would be straightforward to assess using the distances in the system map.
    But, as you point out, there are multi-star systems where the "parent star" can be a considerable distance from the "arrival star" eg IC 2391 Sector ZE-A D101 where the body C 3 lies 337,823 ls from the "arrival star"; it orbits a class L brown dwarf. In this case we would obtain the distance from body to "parent" from the system map, which is given in Au; in this example 0.04 Au. Unfortunately the values in Au are given to 2 decimal places which is imprecise. You can convert the Au to Ls, or have a plot with distance expressed as Au.
    For the cooler stars (Y and T or L), for example any body farther out than .1 Au from its "parent" I would not bother to scan.

    Of course to use this approach you would have to have confidence that the dataset is valid and that the plot is made correctly. Because of the limited dataset and the likelihood that the star classes overlap on the plot I will scan some moons just to be sure. I have not found any new ruins. Yet.

    This tool is only really useful once you are in-system; it does not predict the systems where ruins exist. Personally, I don't think it is possible to make such a predictive tool.



    On another point:
    Originally Posted by Ford Solo View Post (Source)
    Thoughts on finding the missing site layouts: correct me if I'm wrong (going off memory here) but didn't relevant Galnet articles (the Melville one?) say that the Guardian bubble was roughly the same size and dimensions as ours? And if so, shouldn't the emphasis be on looking above and below the current crop of sites, rather than further out laterally? Just a thought, I have no idea if others are already making an effort to search systems above and below.
    I note that the latest ruins lie in systems that have a positive coordinate in Z on the galactic map, whereas all the previous locations were in negative Z. Im currently in positive Z-space

  7. #29152
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Zach View Post (Source)
    So is there a simple rule for how far out in a system ruins can be found? Obviously the first 1000ls you can see as soon as you drop in. Check the system map, look how far from the main star each planet is, and quickly know how many are "too far away" to need checking, without equations, sectants and knowing star temperature gradients etc?

    Actually, I've been to ruins something like 68,000Ls into a system, which were round the 3rd star in the system, iirc.
    To add to what has been already replied - 'distance to arrival' is between 53Ls and 368,890Ls, spectral class for nearest 'star' is one of LTFYMKG, radius of planet between 1014.9 and 2442.3 - all those are visible in the system on arrival and can help narrow down where to look (also like Andalusite's plot a lot). Of course if we stick to only these parameters we will fall into confirmation bias, as we won't find ruins outside them!

    And I haven't found any ruins myself, so maybe you should ask AdmlAdama, as he's been finding a lot of ruins recently he may have more of a clue as to which region to search - I've been looking at the region with the highest density of known ruins, but that may be wrong as perhaps they've all been found .

  8. #29153
    Been searching for new ruin systems for a while now. No luck. Any commanders on xbox one that want to join for a relog obelisc scan party?

  9. #29154
    I've updated my help-sheet for completing the Guardians Ruins mission, so have re-posted it here for convenience.
    (some formatting, added instructions, and a serious typo on Language 13)

    Please help us find the missing ruins sites. After the 2.3 update drops, we probably won't be able to exploit the bug to allow us to get the last 7 codex. We will need the correct sites to get them.


    More info on the Canonn ruins spreadsheet

    masCh's interactive maps can be found here

    help sheet in spoiler



  10. #29155
    One thing is for sure. All ruins were found on rocky worlds. No ruins were ever found on icy worlds.

  11. #29156
    Originally Posted by Markomir View Post (Source)
    One thing is for sure. All ruins were found on rocky worlds. No ruins were ever found on icy worlds.
    Just curious, but was anybody looking on icy worlds after the first site was located on a rocky world?

  12. #29157
    I have been scanning any landable unexplored body on my way from one ruin site to another but did not find any. Of course that does not mean anything. It would be actually really cool if any of the missing ruins are findable on icy worlds only.

  13. #29158
    I would like to clear up the situation about the Guardians Ruins mission and Frontier's bugs.

    There has been quite a bit of negativity over the bugs affecting the mission from Ram Tah, and people claiming that the last seven codex are bugged preventing the mission being completed, and it's terrible that Frontier are happy to leave it like that until the next major update (2.3).

    The three major bugs that Frontier have told us about relating to this mission, and that I believe they said are fixed in 2.3 are:

    • In Solo, obelisks are not resetting as they are supposed to after you scan them.

    • In Open/Player Group, obelisks are lighting up and giving extra data that they shouldn't.

    • There is a terrain bug where the obelisks are sometimes buried (AMD graphics cards and Xbox?)



    Of the (over 100) ruins sites found and documented by Canonn, they fall into several categories:

    There are three types of site, with different shapes and configurations of topography. We've designated these Alpha, Beta and Gamma sites.
    Of two of these, we have found four variations of obelisk cluster layouts within the site. These we've designated Alpha 1 to 4, and Gamma 1 to 4.
    The Beta type, we've actually found 5 variations of obelisk clusters, designated Beta 1 to 5.

    This suggests that there are 2 more variations of site to find still.


    On closer examination, it was found that a few of these 13 different sites had a lot more obelisks lit than usual. These were examined and confirmed to be what we've labelled "+" sites.
    These plus sites give on average 11 more lit obelisks each over the standard sites, and have been the solo source for a lot of the 94 codex currently known about.

    To date, we have only found 7 different "+" sites for the 13 sites types we've found. This suggests there are numerous more "+" sites to find still.



    It is almost certain that the final 7 codex will be obtainable in Solo from one or several of these missing "+" sites and/or variation 5 of the Alpha and Gamma ruins. Once we find them.
    The current method to get the final 7 codex is such a pain in the donkey not because those obelisks are bugged and not working properly, but because we simply haven't found the correct sites, and are manipulating a bug that occurs erratically to exploit it and get the 7 codex we can't find.

    Granted, there are the major bugs listed at the top of this post which have drawn out the process of solving this puzzle considerable, and wasted an awful lot of players time; but Frontier's QA department have confirmed that they have played through this mission in solo and were about to complete it with all 101 codex. So they are out there to be found.

  14. #29159
    Originally Posted by FrogsFriend View Post (Source)
    Just curious, but was anybody looking on icy worlds after the first site was located on a rocky world?
    Well the pattern is (and as far as I'm aware it hasn't been broken) that the guardians chose worlds with low grav, 20-30 ish C temperatures and generally small (1500-2500km across).

  15. #29160
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Zach View Post (Source)
    I would like to clear up the situation about the Guardians Ruins mission and Frontier's bugs.

    There has been quite a bit of negativity over the bugs affecting the mission from Ram Tah, and people claiming that the last seven codex are bugged preventing the mission being completed, and it's terrible that Frontier are happy to leave it like that until the next major update (2.3).

    The three major bugs that Frontier have told us about relating to this mission, and that I believe they said are fixed in 2.3 are:

    • In Solo, obelisks are not resetting as they are supposed to after you scan them.

    • In Open/Player Group, obelisks are lighting up and giving extra data that they shouldn't.

    • There is a terrain bug where the obelisks are sometimes buried (AMD graphics cards and Xbox?)



    Of the (over 100) ruins sites found and documented by Canonn, they fall into several categories:

    There are three types of site, with different shapes and configurations of topography. We've designated these Alpha, Beta and Gamma sites.
    Of two of these, we have found four variations of obelisk cluster layouts within the site. These we've designated Alpha 1 to 4, and Gamma 1 to 4.
    The Beta type, we've actually found 5 variations of obelisk clusters, designated Beta 1 to 5.

    This suggests that there are 2 more variations of site to find still.


    On closer examination, it was found that a few of these 13 different sites had a lot more obelisks lit than usual. These were examined and confirmed to be what we've labelled "+" sites.
    These plus sites give on average 11 more lit obelisks each over the standard sites, and have been the solo source for a lot of the 94 codex currently known about.

    To date, we have only found 7 different "+" sites for the 13 sites types we've found. This suggests there are numerous more "+" sites to find still.



    It is almost certain that the final 7 codex will be obtainable in Solo from one or several of these missing "+" sites and/or variation 5 of the Alpha and Gamma ruins. Once we find them.
    The current method to get the final 7 codex is such a pain in the donkey not because those obelisks are bugged and not working properly, but because we simply haven't found the correct sites, and are manipulating a bug that occurs erratically to exploit it and get the 7 codex we can't find.

    Granted, there are the major bugs listed at the top of this post which have drawn out the process of solving this puzzle considerable, and wasted an awful lot of players time; but Frontier's QA department have confirmed that they have played through this mission in solo and were about to complete it with all 101 codex. So they are out there to be found.
    Which I could rep you again!