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Thread: 2.2 Update: Combat Balance Adjustments [UPDATED]

  1. #1621
    Originally Posted by InDigital View Post (Source)
    !IMPORTANT NOTICE ABOUT NEW GIMBALL ANGLE RELATED TO BIG PLAYER SHIPS!

    Just spent about hour fighting in Hazardous Resource Extraction Site.
    I am flying my Cutter (as i said here before). Fully A graded Cutter with all G5 mods possible (really good rolls for everything and of course thrusters).
    I put A rated Sensors (just for moneuerability/speed/pitch rate testing) as it should/would be after 2.2 balance changes instead of D.
    Frontier said with A rated sensors gimballs should be in angle with HUD ring so i did some testings.
    I encountered fiew Elite FDL's and some Dangerous/Master ASP's and Cobras. Gues what?

    Well i can congratulate Frontier with great fail in idea about decreasing gimball angle.
    All skilled ships below and icluding FDL flying above HUD ring.
    It means gimballs with even A rated sensors and Cutter with perfect mods won't be able to target FDL and smaller ships at all.

    It's really hard to hit those NPC ships even now.
    So Cutter defenitely RIP after balance changes!

    Originally Posted by Member! View Post (Source)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ39tMjRES8

    It will be fun watching gimbals slow lock on vs NPCs spamming unlimited chaff...
    Well, the question is if FD really want ships the size of an Aircraft carrier to dogfight much smaller, nimbler fighter craft?

    I know the video was meant as a joke, but the combat style depicted in the video is actually pretty close to what I would like for ED... of course with better turrets (on large ships).. Add an interesting and deep "electronic warfare" gameplay mechanic into the mix and we might actually have a fun new balance where ships of different sizes feel distinct and viable.
    CMDR Privadeer

    Staring into the headlights of spaceships since 1984

  2. #1622
    just catching up on the thread, and reading about making sensors targetable. It's kinda neat but really who is going to say I know I'll target this ships sensors and leave the power plant or thrusters alone"

    it's like a lot of the proposed changes, kinda neat sounding but in practice it'll just annoy, frustrate or be totally ignored

  3. #1623
    Originally Posted by Shanaeri View Post (Source)
    it's like a lot of the proposed changes, kinda neat sounding but in practice it'll just annoy, frustrate or be totally ignored
    So like Powerplay then?

  4. #1624
    Originally Posted by Ydiss View Post (Source)
    I see it a bit more simply than this. Back when the Python was changed, a lot said "Keep the Python the same, make the other ships better".

    FD chose not to. And rightly so. Making all the other ships as good as the Python, at that time, would have trivialised PVE.

    Balance is exactly that; a balance of up and down. Constantly buffing everything until it's all the same isn't necessarily balance; fixed have received several balance passes since I've been around (all of them have been buffs) and it's still not as desirable as gimble and that means, at this point, something needs to change. Sadly, this means it's not easy for FD to achieve balance. Particularly now, when you consider how much more complex the game is compared to when they changed the Python.

    Needless to say, their approach of giving these changes their own isolated beta test is a good one.
    Actually FDev did exactly this and buffed every. single. ship. with RNGineers! Only it took them 15 months to do this. So bad point to raise regarding the Python example as an engineered one is same or stronger than it was before along with all of the ships once engineered. Balance achieved I guess. But 15 months later.

  5. #1625
    Originally Posted by Shanaeri View Post (Source)
    just catching up on the thread, and reading about making sensors targetable. It's kinda neat but really who is going to say I know I'll target this ships sensors and leave the power plant or thrusters alone"
    Actually, I'm quite excited about this one. It will all depend upon location and accessibility.

    At the moment in a PvP duel I frequently pre-target a secondary module that I know is weak and easily struck first - such as the power distributor on a FAS, or one of the guns on a Vulture.
    Federal Vigilante PvP Executioner Friend and Supporter of Adle's Armada

  6. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #1626
    Just a small update (when I've posted this I'll update the OP with the new information where appropriate) - I'm still trying to read as much of the thread as possible, but I have limits :

    We've been discussing the feedback gathered from this thread and elsewhere, and there's a few things we'd like to comment/act on before going into beta. Several other issues are still being considered, but there's nothing new to share yet.

    Plasma Accelerators
    The Buff here is probably a bit too large, the calculations for how big a penalty the switch to Absolute damage would be for non-engineered targets was done with some changes to shield resistance in mind (which we've since decided aren't a good idea), and not updated correctly. We're dropping the Damage boost from 35% to 10%. This is still a buff in all cases (of 16% sustained DPS in the smallest case), but it's baseline damage isn't high enough to make it a clear choice over alternatives against all targets.

    Shield restore from Reboot/Repair
    We agree there are potential in-combat abuses of this generally by faster ships FA-OFF boosting and then repairing, so we're making a small tweak to how this process works. Reboot/repair still behaves as normal, if you're near-stationary (below 50 m/s) when the process completes you'll get your shields back, if you're moving too fast this will disrupt the process and you'll be left shieldless.

    Burst Laser Efficiency
    A few people are validly concerned that the efficiency boost to burst lasers makes them a new de-facto choice over pulse lasers, which while they do need a buff isn't the intent. For now we're not making changes but are keeping an eye on it and would appreciate feedback when you get access. One compromise might be to give them near-equivalent efficiency but leave the burst laser as a trade of slightly more damage for substantially more heat/power.

    Fixed vs Gimbal
    Not wanting to re-ignite the argument massively, but we're going into beta with the changes as proposed. We do definitely need feedback before these changes go live though! To comment a little on the intent of the change - our (and my own) internal testing shows the decrease in PvE kill rate during bounty hunting/CZ is negligible against most targets for a relatively competent pilot (think about how much time you actually spend with the target right on the edge of your tracking arc and unable to bring it closer?), but this does make them harder to use in PvP and against abnormally evasive NPCs.

    We really do think this one needs to be tried to be fairly evaluated.

  7. #1627
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Plasma Accelerators
    The Buff here is probably a bit too large, the calculations for how big a penalty the switch to Absolute damage would be for non-engineered targets was done with some changes to shield resistance in mind (which we've since decided aren't a good idea), and not updated correctly. We're dropping the Damage boost from 35% to 10%. This is still a buff in all cases (of 16% sustained DPS in the smallest case), but it's baseline damage isn't high enough to make it a clear choice over alternatives against all targets.
    Welp, this puts PA back on the shelf. Sorry.

  8. #1628
    Originally Posted by Huita View Post (Source)
    Welp, this puts PA back on the shelf. Sorry.
    lol.
    Playing along with these changes, guess who I just signed up for in PowerPlay?????

  9. #1629
    PA gets the nerf hammer before it even got buffed.

    ALD PowerPlay | PvP | BGS | Fun | Join Lavigny's Legion

  10. #1630
    And with that, I went from being excited over the combat changes to 'meh'.

    CMDR Brimstone AVM <-Youtube!

  11. #1631
    Ooohhhh ... thanks for the update Mark but to me as a PvP-er, the first announcement concerning plasma still left it borderline cuz projectile velocity plus draw plus heat. I thought I still might be better off hitting continuously with laser or multi, even with the resists.

    This may well finally resolve the question against plasma.

    But, will test ...

  12. #1632
    The moment this gets released into the main game the complaints will start, and it will be put back virtually to where it was anyway. I suggest smaller steps, please anticipate the wider communitys reaction.

    I'm not going to revert to fixed because Gimballs get worse, I'll just get the better sensors & continue as before.

    Any change to allow shields to re-form faster will just become another exploit as it used to be. Absolutely no to the reboot/repair change please.

  13. #1633
    I was really excited to start using the PA's again.

  14. #1634
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Burst Laser Efficiency
    A few people are validly concerned that the efficiency boost to burst lasers makes them a new de-facto choice over pulse lasers, which while they do need a buff isn't the intent. For now we're not making changes but are keeping an eye on it and would appreciate feedback when you get access. One compromise might be to give them near-equivalent efficiency but leave the burst laser as a trade of slightly more damage for substantially more heat/power.
    Suggestion. Make burst lasers a jousting weapon.
    • somewhat less DpE than pulse lasers
    • somewhat less accuracy than pulse lasers
    • clearly superior DpS compared to pulse lasers
    • (edit) and better penetration to do short range module sniping

    This way they would be excellent against small and medium sized ships at short range and good at destroying modules. Otherwise pulses would be better.
    CMDR Randolf Gunn -- "Never Grind" (except when there are no options)

  15. #1635
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Please do remember: the forums themselves are a bit of an echo chamber, the non-vocal majority of players often aren't represented publicly where you can see the information.
    Understatement of the year right here. I wish Frontier wouldn't cave, or at least appear to cave-in to the echo chamber on this forum. We haven't even had the chance to experience these changes in the beta yet. It was the same situation with the instant ship transfer.

    CMDR Brimstone AVM <-Youtube!

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