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Thread: 2.2 Update: Engineer Blueprint Balance Adjustments [UPDATED]

  1. #301
    Perhaps it's time to nerf the FD team. And bring in fresh talent.

  2. #302
    On this talk of sliders, I don't want it at all. Reason being the current system gives you the chance of a great roll where you get both minimal 'negative' aspects and a good buff to positives. The only people who whine about it are those who simply cannot bear the thought that they don't have 'teh best' modification and so will grind endlessly to spam 200 rolls on a mod uintil they get something like that.

  3. #303
    So for example with overcharge it will go from a max roll of 62% to 45%. First off I think that cut is too steep. Second, the way this should be implemented is if your current roll is over the 45% you should get the new max amount of 45%. Not this sliding scale nonsense. Otherwise what you are saying is pretty much everyone will have to reroll every overcharge weapon they have again, and hence go through all the shenanigans of getting enough MEFs to try and minimise their dps loss.

    Getting MEFs is the worst engineering time sink in the game. Your are voiding that effort and saying if you want to minimise your dps loss because of this spurious change we deem necessary (that only makes sense to FD) then you have to repeat it all again. Really.

  4. #304
    Nope. Sliding scale is the way to go here. Don't know why you would disagree. If you now don't have the 100% perfect module, why should you get it for free after the patch.

  5. #305
    Originally Posted by Knightshark View Post (Source)
    On the other hand much more people would fly around with optimal setups, so less diversity and more pressure to reach optimum on own ships, at least in Open.
    Balance trumps so-called 'diversity' when it comes to PvP, in my view. Letting all players have equal means to optimum ships (with requisite time & effort invested), rather than being determined by who played the lottery the longest (or got the luckiest), would go a long way towards solving some of the many ongoing balance problems.

  6. #306
    Originally Posted by V'larr View Post (Source)
    Balance trumps so-called 'diversity' when it comes to PvP, in my view.
    Pretty sure that PVE crowd is in majority and would tend to disagree. Most would vote for diversity when in doubt.

  7. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #307
    Just a small update here based on feedback so far, there's a few changes/comments we'd like to make before going into beta. Several other issues are still being considered, but there's nothing new to share yet.

    Please do remember, this is an interim build where we're only taking balance changes with at most a small technical impact. Discussions on the overall direction/technical mechanics of engineers can be interesting and we do take them onboard, but they're not going to get done in this kind of build!


    Beam Blueprints
    We agree that beams have a limited set of good blueprint options, having fixed some related issues they're now getting Efficient and Overcharged available to them.

    Short Range
    The effect of Short Range reducing projectile speed and damage falloff wasn't really intended and we're taking the opportunity to correct that. Projectile velocity and damage falloff start will no longer be reduced (Long range continues to work as it does now and scales both of these values up). Short range is also getting a 5% damage increase so that its peak DPS is near-identical to Overcharged and Rapid Fire, you're just paying different tradeoffs.

    Focused
    There have been some valid comments that we're somewhat repurposing Focused by removing the range modifier. We’re aware this change might be a problem for players who crafted a Focused weapon specifically for the range increase. We’re investigating what we can do with our existing tools to compensate players, but to help us gauge the scale of the problem we’d ask that anyone who currently has a Focused weapon who would now prefer Long Range to get in touch with Customer Support via a dedicated help topic: https://support.frontier.co.uk/open.php?topic=212 (please note that this is only for that one very specific issue and not general requests or other Blueprints). I can’t make promises yet but we are looking into it.

    "Forcing" people to re-craft items
    This one is worth re-stating, the goal here is NOT to force people to craft new modules. Unless you choose to explore the new options, which should never be a requirement. Yes we're reducing the power of Overcharged and Rapid Fire, but they're still the joint kings of DPS, there's no necessity to switch to another blueprint unless you now want something markedly different. On this subject the quality of feedback is paramount to getting good results. If there are modules that you feel you're gong to be forced to re-craft then please be specific in the feedback - for example useful information would be:

    Which Blueprint do you have now?
    What aspect of that blueprint does what you were after?
    On which base module?
    And most crucially - Which blueprint forces you to upgrade to it and why?

  8. #308
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Just a small update here based on feedback so far, there's a few changes/comments we'd like to make before going into beta. Several other issues are still being considered, but there's nothing new to share yet.

    Please do remember, this is an interim build where we're only taking balance changes with at most a small technical impact. Discussions on the overall direction/technical mechanics of engineers can be interesting and we do take them onboard, but they're not going to get done in this kind of build!


    Beam Blueprints
    We agree that beams have a limited set of good blueprint options, having fixed some related issues they're now getting Efficient and Overcharged available to them.

    Short Range
    The effect of Short Range reducing projectile speed and damage falloff wasn't really intended and we're taking the opportunity to correct that. Projectile velocity and damage falloff start will no longer be reduced (Long range continues to work as it does now and scales both of these values up). Short range is also getting a 5% damage increase so that its peak DPS is near-identical to Overcharged and Rapid Fire, you're just paying different tradeoffs.

    Focused
    There have been some valid comments that we're somewhat repurposing Focused by removing the range modifier. We’re aware this change might be a problem for players who crafted a Focused weapon specifically for the range increase. We’re investigating what we can do with our existing tools to compensate players, but to help us gauge the scale of the problem we’d ask that anyone who currently has a Focused weapon who would now prefer Long Range to get in touch with Customer Support via a dedicated help topic: https://support.frontier.co.uk/open.php?topic=212 (please note that this is only for that one very specific issue and not general requests or other Blueprints). I can’t make promises yet but we are looking into it.

    "Forcing" people to re-craft items
    This one is worth re-stating, the goal here is NOT to force people to craft new modules. Unless you choose to explore the new options, which should never be a requirement. Yes we're reducing the power of Overcharged and Rapid Fire, but they're still the joint kings of DPS, there's no necessity to switch to another blueprint unless you now want something markedly different. On this subject the quality of feedback is paramount to getting good results. If there are modules that you feel you're gong to be forced to re-craft then please be specific in the feedback - for example useful information would be:

    Which Blueprint do you have now?
    What aspect of that blueprint does what you were after?
    On which base module?
    And most crucially - Which blueprint forces you to upgrade to it and why?
    Thanks for the update! Good job FDev

  9. #309
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Just a small update here based on feedback so far, there's a few changes/comments we'd like to make before going into beta. Several other issues are still being considered, but there's nothing new to share yet.

    Please do remember, this is an interim build where we're only taking balance changes with at most a small technical impact. Discussions on the overall direction/technical mechanics of engineers can be interesting and we do take them onboard, but they're not going to get done in this kind of build!


    Beam Blueprints
    We agree that beams have a limited set of good blueprint options, having fixed some related issues they're now getting Efficient and Overcharged available to them.

    Short Range
    The effect of Short Range reducing projectile speed and damage falloff wasn't really intended and we're taking the opportunity to correct that. Projectile velocity and damage falloff start will no longer be reduced (Long range continues to work as it does now and scales both of these values up). Short range is also getting a 5% damage increase so that its peak DPS is near-identical to Overcharged and Rapid Fire, you're just paying different tradeoffs.

    Focused
    There have been some valid comments that we're somewhat repurposing Focused by removing the range modifier. We’re aware this change might be a problem for players who crafted a Focused weapon specifically for the range increase. We’re investigating what we can do with our existing tools to compensate players, but to help us gauge the scale of the problem we’d ask that anyone who currently has a Focused weapon who would now prefer Long Range to get in touch with Customer Support via a dedicated help topic: https://support.frontier.co.uk/open.php?topic=212 (please note that this is only for that one very specific issue and not general requests or other Blueprints). I can’t make promises yet but we are looking into it.

    "Forcing" people to re-craft items
    This one is worth re-stating, the goal here is NOT to force people to craft new modules. Unless you choose to explore the new options, which should never be a requirement. Yes we're reducing the power of Overcharged and Rapid Fire, but they're still the joint kings of DPS, there's no necessity to switch to another blueprint unless you now want something markedly different. On this subject the quality of feedback is paramount to getting good results. If there are modules that you feel you're gong to be forced to re-craft then please be specific in the feedback - for example useful information would be:

    Which Blueprint do you have now?
    What aspect of that blueprint does what you were after?
    On which base module?
    And most crucially - Which blueprint forces you to upgrade to it and why?
    Thanks Mark.

    Any word on having scanner blueprints, or even better a more in-depth look at scanner mechanics and how they will interact with gimballed and turreted weapons?

    It is difficult to explain why high-tonnage scanners on big ships are as good as lower-tonnage scanners on small ships. It would make more sense to have big ship scanners be superior in every way to explain their weight: sensor arrays, processing and so on.

    It is by will alone I set my ship in motion.
    It is by gaming that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning.
    It is by will alone I set my ship in motion.

  10. #310
    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    Beam Blueprints
    We agree that beams have a limited set of good blueprint options, having fixed some related issues they're now getting Efficient and Overcharged available to them.
    Yay for Efficient Beam Lasers! A distributor-draw-reducing mod for beams has always been sorely missing.

  11. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #311
    Mark Allen is offline
    Programmer- Elite: Dangerous
      Mark Allen's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Andargor View Post (Source)
    Thanks Mark.

    Any word on having scanner blueprints, or even better a more in-depth look at scanner mechanics and how they will interact with gimballed and turreted weapons?

    It is difficult to explain why high-tonnage scanners on big ships are as good as lower-tonnage scanners on small ships. It would make more sense to have big ship scanners be superior in every way to explain their weight: sensor arrays, processing and so on.
    I totally forgot to mention - Scanner blueprints won't be in this build, adding new recipes carries with it some technical issues we don't want to risk in an interim build (new levels of existing recipes are a much simpler matter). But it's absolutely something I want to push through - sadly I have to fall back on the usual caveats and can't make promises right now.
    "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
    - Anon

  12. #312
    Efficient Beams!
    Efficient Beams!
    All Hail Efficient Beams!!!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Originally Posted by Mark Allen View Post (Source)
    I totally forgot to mention - Scanner blueprints won't be in this build, adding new recipes carries with it some technical issues we don't want to risk in an interim build (new levels of existing recipes are a much simpler matter). But it's absolutely something I want to push through - sadly I have to fall back on the usual caveats and can't make promises right now.
    Great news!
    Also Mark, can you please post new blueprints for G4&G5 thermal\kinetic\explosive armor and shield boosters?

  13. #313

  14. #314
    Originally Posted by biohazard15 View Post (Source)
    Efficient Beams!
    Efficient Beams!
    All Hail Efficient Beams!!!!!!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Great news!
    Also Mark, can you please post new blueprints for G4&G5 thermal\kinetic\explosive armor and shield boosters?
    I'm interested to see the stats on the Efficient Beams - even with the nerf, G5 Rapid Fire and OC pulses still have *significantly* higher DPS than standard beams, and if these only increase the DPS by about 9% then we'll be in the odd position where the best Efficient Beams are still worse than RF/OC pulses in almost every regard.

  15. #315
    It's going to be interesting to see if efficient beams will bring them back into contention. A 9% dps boost is going to be nice and being able to fire them for longer will be very nice. But will that be enough to match rapid fire pulses and oc mcs etc?

    Really looking forward to trying it out. Beams would have been my favourite of the three but they've not been viable for absolutely ages.

    Overcharged though? That will be insane but surely not viable or sensible to use for pve. Still going to try it out though
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/image.php?u=50093&type=sigpic&dateline=1416858574

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