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Thread: Am I incapable of fighting or....?

  1. #16
    Combat in the game is much much easier than the tutorials. You can kill your first 100 ships without ever getting shot back at. You don't need any special skill - that will come later. Have a look at this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQJZMW33KCQ
    Trade Rank: Elite Explorer Rank: Elite Combat Rank: Elite Federal Navy Rank: Admiral Imperial Navy Rank: King Engineers lvl 5: 15 Crew Rank: Elite

  2. #17
    I am with you, man! I already gave up on combat, but everyone will keep telling you that it is easy or becomes easier, but it fact it is not. Of course, you will learn some tricks and you will be better after a while through training and experience, but if you are a bad pilot (like me!), the game can be quite frustrating and unforgiving. There is hope however!

    If you are bad with landing (like me), there is an automatic docking computer (only 4500 credits). I use it al the time and it prevents me from crashing everytime I land/dock somewhere. As for combat, I run as often as i can, since I am killed most of the times. Running away seems to be the only way for bad pilots (lik me) to play this game, and it got me good and big ships, up to the T9. (the Anaconda is next on my list). Unfortunately, some combat is necessary is you want to get some of the better stuff in the game (there is a lot of engineering stuff that can only be gained by combat), but you can get that by buying a small ship and kamikaze that a lot of times in high res surroundings. Will cost you a bundle, but it will get you the stuff you want...

    Bottom line, if you are a bad pilot, the game can be frustrating and unforgiving, but you can do a lot of other things (like trading and missions) and just run the hell away as soon as you are interdicted or see other spaceships...

  3. #18
    Originally Posted by pipo zelvelder View Post (Source)
    (...) Unfortunately, some combat is necessary is you want to get some of the better stuff in the game (there is a lot of engineering stuff that can only be gained by combat), (...)
    Could you tell me what stuff can only be gained by combat? I didn't meet yet anything like that.

  4. #19
    Originally Posted by Rob Erstas View Post (Source)
    Could you tell me what stuff can only be gained by combat? I didn't meet yet anything like that.
    50 combat bonds for JI invite
    1 million in combat bonds for JI to start working for you.
    15 bounties for Todd invite
    100K bounties for Todd to start working for you.


    Without Todd, you can't unlock some of the other engineers, and the same with JI.
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  5. #20
    Thanks for all tips and support I will keep trying then but still keep feeling that xbox version has more polished controls us usual in cross platform games....

  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Exo Pesta View Post (Source)
    Thanks for all tips and support I will keep trying then but still keep feeling that xbox version has more polished controls us usual in cross platform games....
    Good for you

    I haven't played on the xbox but all the controls are configurable so you should be able to set it up however you want. The down side is there's a lot of them you can set up! Like I said though you don't need to do missions or combat, exploring is possible from the start. Admittedly I already knew what I was doing but I spent IDK half an hour to an hour jumping from system to system fuel scooping and scanning. When I landed I had about 100k cr of data but it depends a lot on what you scan so YMMV.

  7. #22
    To add to all the advice above, the best way is definitely to practise in a safe (or as safe as Elite can be) environment. Nav beacons are good for testing combat as you'll have a few police vessels to help you fight. Also, choosing who to fight and when to run is also crucial - even as you get bigger ships.

    For example, if you're taking on a Sidewinder with the help of some system authority ships, you should be able to put him away pretty easily. Just practise the basics like trying to avoid fire and keeping behind the enemy ships. You can do an awful lot with shields up as well, so you could decide to flee any encounter that gets your shields down so you live to tell the tale, at least until you get more comfortable with combat.

    As Frank stated, the fighter club in Leesti could also be a good shout. Stock Sideys so low rebuy cost and everyone is on equal footing - you would definitely pick up a few pointers.

    Also, any more info you have would be helpful, like ships types, weapons, etc. You could be doing something basic wrong and not realise it, and could be a game-changer.

    At any rate, there are PLENTY of ways to progress and make money without combat. I made my first 20 million without doing all that much combat, and then I bought a cheap ship to fly just for combat and I'm loving it. Having a purpose-built ship that you don't mind risking rather than your main multirole/trading vessel can also make a big difference.

  8. #23
    From one newbie to another-get in a cobra ASAP if you want to fight. An experienced pilot can do well in a sidewinder but us noobs need a little more to make up for our lack of skill. Weapons load out is important too- I watched all the videos of pirates hunting everything with four auto cannons and thought 'I'll do that since I want to be a pirate' and then quickly got my butt handed to me. 2x Beam and 2x AC are the perfect beginners combo-best distributor your can afford and the best power plant you can afford. The beams melt his shields and the cannons shred his hull making short work of any sidewinder/adder/hauler/eagle you find. Most type 6's and even the occasional type 7 are easy prey too. Stay away from other cobras/pythons/asp etc until you are more comfortable in your abilities. Once you get good with this setup you can sub Plasma Accelerators for the beams and open up your prey list a bit-diamond back explorers/scouts, vipers and most asps are within your reach now. Earlier today I took down an anaconda in my cobra-I won by the skin of my teeth (3% hull) but I won

  9. #24
    Originally Posted by artuitus View Post (Source)
    From one newbie to another-get in a cobra ASAP if you want to fight. An experienced pilot can do well in a sidewinder but us noobs need a little more to make up for our lack of skill. Weapons load out is important too- I watched all the videos of pirates hunting everything with four auto cannons and thought 'I'll do that since I want to be a pirate' and then quickly got my butt handed to me. 2x Beam and 2x AC are the perfect beginners combo-best distributor your can afford and the best power plant you can afford. The beams melt his shields and the cannons shred his hull making short work of any sidewinder/adder/hauler/eagle you find. Most type 6's and even the occasional type 7 are easy prey too. Stay away from other cobras/pythons/asp etc until you are more comfortable in your abilities. Once you get good with this setup you can sub Plasma Accelerators for the beams and open up your prey list a bit-diamond back explorers/scouts, vipers and most asps are within your reach now. Earlier today I took down an anaconda in my cobra-I won by the skin of my teeth (3% hull) but I won
    Hmmm!. Cobra isn't really a combat ship. The normal progression through combat would be Sidewinder to Viper to Vulture to FDL. Though there's no rule, those ships are the ones that pack the most punch for their size. Once you get to medium size ships, one can argue between the FAS, Python and FDL, and the engineers can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but at the beginning of the game, it has to be the Viper for it's agility and better shields. They both have the same fire-power, hardpoints and utility points.
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  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Rob Erstas View Post (Source)
    Could you tell me what stuff can only be gained by combat? I didn't meet yet anything like that.
    d8veh already pointed out the first few (thanx!) and I would like to add stuff like chemical distillery and chemical manipulators to it. I had to buy myself a combat laden vulture especially for this purpose, and only succeeded getting some(!) manipulators after hours of combat and 7 deaths... But please keep your head in the sand and keep yelling that it will become easier, but it won't help. For guys like me, combat is just too hard. Sure, I can kill a few little ships in high res, but when it comes to the big boys, i keep ending up fleeing from the "police" and most of the times "wake up with a new ship"

    Maybe OP is also one of us...

  11. #26
    I recall the first time I ever did the tutorials and it took me about 20 minutes to kill that Sidewinder.
    Tried the same thing again recently, to test out a new controller config', and it took me about 20 seconds.

    I, so I guess I must have learned something.

    Other than "get behind your target and then keep your nose pointing at it", I don't really have many words of wisdom about combat.
    Try to use the directional thrusters as you turn in order to turn more effectively and try using FA-off if you're feeling really ambitious.

    Beyond that, I'd say try to avoid artificially inflating your combat rank.
    It might feel good to be one of several ships who is killing bandits in a RES but increasing your combat rank means you'll meet tougher NPC opponents at any other time too.
    It won't feel as good when you get interdicted by a bandit in a Vulture rather than a Sidewinder because your combat rank is elevated to "competent".

  12. #27
    What is your ship and loadout, and what is your budget?

    Put it together here, and post the URL (it updates automatically).

    You'll get much more specific advice when we know exactly what you're flying.

    With regard to control schemes, I'd say that you should bind a control for 50% throttle. This will put your speed in the middle of the blue zone on the speed indicator on the right side of the scanner. At this speed, your turn rates are maximised, which allows for maximum manoeuvrability. i would also bind vertical/lateral thrusters and forward/backward thrusters somewhere handy so that you can keep your pointy things pointing at the enemy. The thrusters will allow you to modify your turns, and the forward/backward thrusters will allow you to manage the distance between you and your target.

    Your shields have multiple values attached to them - overall energy they can absorb (usually expressed in Mj - megajoules) and resistances (thermal - lasers; kinetic - cannon/multicannon; and explosive - missiles/torpodoes). These are usually expressed as a positive or negative raw number. Unmodified shields are weaker against thermal attacks (-20 resistance) than they are against kinetic attacks (+40) or explosive attacks (+50). In other words, you should be bothered less about your shields being hit by multicannons than lasers. The number of power pips distributed to shields has a direct impact on the resistances. At 4 pips, your shields are something like 100% more resistant than they are at 0 pips, and the resistance curve is logarithmic rather than arithmetic. To put it another way, the resistance curve is like an x=y² graph. This means your shields are much stronger with three pips than with two pips to SYS, and much stronger again with 4 pips to SYS.

    That sounds very complex, and it is, but it can be reduced to one sentence: If you're taking fire, put 4 pips to shields, and they'll soak up a lot more damage. When you're not taking fire, you can switch energy distribution over to lasers. On an A-rated distributor, you'll get two, possibly three, boosts out of the ENG capacitor until you have to recharge it. You should always try to recharge the SYS and ENG capacitors when you're not taking fire. Kinetic weapons are useful because they draw so little distributor. On a Sidey, a class 1 multicannon can fire effectively until it runs out of ammo with 2 pips to WEP.

    Hulls have different resistances (+20 thermal; -20 kinetic; -40 explosive) to shields, and lasers become less effective than kinetic/explosive weapons once shields are down. A balanced loadout on a Sidey that allows for easy distributor management while not sacrificing too much damage is one class 1 laser with one class 1 multicannon. Use the laser against the shields and use the MC against the hull.

    On ships with medium hardpoints, it's preferable to have the class 2 weapons as kinetic and the class 1 weapons as thermal. This is because weapons take a damage penalty against hulls larger than the hardpoint, but this does not apply to shields. A medium hardpoint will do 100% damage to medium and small hulls, and take a penalty of roughly 33% against large hulls. A small weapon will do 100% damage against a small hull, but take a roughly 33% reduction against medium hulls and approximately 66% against large hulls. To reiterate, this does not apply to shields. The optimal damage output for a basic Viper Mk.III loadout will be 2x class 1 lasers and 2x class 2 multicannon. With that said, certain weapons don't take such a nerf - cannons and railguns, for example, so two class 2 lasers and two class 1 cannon can be devastating, especially against modules like thrusters or power plants..

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  13. #28
    Originally Posted by pipo zelvelder View Post (Source)
    But please keep your head in the sand and keep yelling that it will become easier, but it won't help. For guys like me, combat is just too hard. Sure, I can kill a few little ships in high res, but when it comes to the big boys, i keep ending up fleeing from the "police" and most of the times "wake up with a new ship"

    Maybe OP is also one of us...
    I don't think you lack the skill for combat. Nobody does. What you need is the knowledge and understanding of how to do it. I'm sure that if I or any other experience player sat down next to you while you're doing it, we could explain where you're going wrong and how to avoid problems. The game is quite complicated. For some, it takes a while to figure out how all the different aspects interact. It seems to me that you got in a mess about how the crime and punishment system works rather than your ability to kill ships.

    The most important thing for combat is having the right ship. If you want to go and attack another ship, you need one that is at least as strong as the one you're attacking until you have that special combat technique/skill that comes from a lot of practice.
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  14. #29
    Originally Posted by artuitus View Post (Source)
    ...Most type 6's and even the occasional type 7 are easy prey too...
    Still flying my first T6, though many have tried to kill her. Lost a number of Cobras before I could afford to buy her though!

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by d8veh View Post (Source)
    I don't think you lack the skill for combat. Nobody does. What you need is the knowledge and understanding of how to do it. I'm sure that if I or any other experience player sat down next to you while you're doing it, we could explain where you're going wrong and how to avoid problems. The game is quite complicated. For some, it takes a while to figure out how all the different aspects interact. It seems to me that you got in a mess about how the crime and punishment system works rather than your ability to kill ships.

    The most important thing for combat is having the right ship. If you want to go and attack another ship, you need one that is at least as strong as the one you're attacking until you have that special combat technique/skill that comes from a lot of practice.
    Thanx for your kind words d8veh, i am sure you really mean well. It is just that getting killed a few times in a row without much of a fight is really frustrating for me. So when these "streaks of bad luck" happen a few times in a row, it totally kills my appetite for playin ED for several days and in fewer days (when 2.1 was just out, for starters) even for weeks. Then I pull myself together and try a new approach and mostly after some succesfull start, the "streaks of bad luck" reappear and the frustration comes back.
    So in this hate/love relation with the game, I find myself torn between quitting altogether or slowly and carefully trying out new stuff. for example: i tried the new passenger missions, but was killed for carrying a criminal AFTER i went far away to show him te good stuff. Problem was that the "criminal part" was not on the "main" characteristics of the passenger, but further along in the text (2e screen), and by the time I saw that, I was already on my way back, to discover that the system we left in, was one of these system where this criminal was wanted. Almost 5M credits gone due to a "known bug". Ah well, forgiving as i am, I started longer range missions and brought a pasenger 7000 ly away, to be attacked by this pirate (passenger was neither fugitive, nor had a high risk of being sought) and I even did survive the attack by running away, my passenger fled because of "hull damage". So far, no good.
    So I decided to try to up my FSD through engineering at Felicity to make better jumps, but I need chemical distilleries for that, which are only available by killing large vessels. So I built myself a nice Vulture from some combat builds on this forum, and went to high res (after trying low first for combat practise). Results? Sure, I got 7 chemical manipulators, so when i get Felicity to 5 I can up my FSD, but she is still 4, so I really need the chemical distilleries, which i did not get, and I also died 7 times in my vulture, most times by police fire... And most of these case with something like 600.000 credits in bounties that were lost

    I have flown the Viper, The sidewinder, The diamondback scout, the vulture, ASP, T9, T6, Cobra, Python, Clipper; I did mining, missions, ceos/sothis, Baroned myself to the Clipper, made it to entrepeneur trader and almost ranger, but when i get into combat, I die a thousand deaths...
    Originally Posted by d8veh View Post (Source)
    I don't think you lack the skill for combat. Nobody does.
    So, i beg to differ and think that maybe OP and I (but I will gladly only involve myself) are exceptions to your opinion; I really would love a "simple" mode on Elite, as I really love the game, but find some aspects (like combat) too diffcult

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