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Thread: Shield Booster and ship armour changes feedback thread

  1. #2146
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For Beta 2.3, we’ve added diminishing returns to shield booster stacking that start at about +80% and cap out at +150% from the health of the shield generator (after any modifications on the shield generator have already been applied). they were received very positively in the last beta, but we want moar feedback! Please keep on topic, off topic posts may be deleted without warning.
    and yet it seems inherently impossible for people to remain on-topic...but yes Sandy please, pretty please for the next one!!!

  2. #2147
    Originally Posted by Vitamin Arrr View Post (Source)
    I am on XBOX...
    So my point stands, the issue is most certainly on your side *

    Not sure why they aren't able to optimalise the XBox more than they do. I assume it's because this game wasn't meant for consoles to begin with, and by looking at the graphics degradation across the board, everyone suffers from it



    *Joke; don't take it too seriously

  3. #2148
    Originally Posted by Lngjohnsilver1 View Post (Source)
    and yet it seems inherently impossible for people to remain on-topic...but yes Sandy please, pretty please for the next one!!!
    There is no point in staying on-topic anymore, as they already confirmed that this change has been thrown overboard....like it was last time. You want to keep discussing something that they have tried twice to implement, but won't because a proportion of the player base are crying about not being allowed to have God-ships or all the time they spent to engineer their God-ships?

  4. #2149
    Originally Posted by CMDR Arguendo View Post (Source)
    I don't know about the other things, but that one is most certainly on your side. My Galaxy map doesn't take anywhere near that long. Maybe 5 seconds at the most before everything is loaded, usually less. It does have serious FPS drops when going to the GM though.
    Even if it's on his side, it's *still* on Fdev's side. It's their job to make the game run properly. "Your computer isn't powerful enough to load the pause screen in less than 30 seconds" is an unacceptable excuse. Galaxy Map - OK there's some wiggle room there - but the blooming pause menu? No other game gets away with this and neither should Elite.

  5. #2150
    Originally Posted by CMDR Arguendo View Post (Source)
    There is no point in staying on-topic anymore, as they already confirmed that this change has been thrown overboard....like it was last time. You want to keep discussing something that they have tried twice to implement, but won't because a proportion of the player base are crying about not being allowed to have God-ships or all the time they spent to engineer their God-ships?
    Yes - that is exactly my point. What is the point in having a thread title if any old flame / grief / grudge can be discussed. Frankly the moderators should bury this thread for good and all!

  6. #2151
    Originally Posted by Dr. Uzi View Post (Source)
    This game has been going down the toilet ever since engineers. Weapon effects are stupid, skill based combat has been removed from the equation due to them. And whoever introduced HEALING weapons into this game should be fired immediately. I have put down Elite, it is no longer the skill based combat sim I picked up in 1.1. All i want is for guns to be guns, lasers to be lasers, and skill to determine who wins. As it is, I can out fly you, out gun you, and out think you, only to be beaten because some loser has his buddy healing beaming him in the the entire time I shoot him.

    You know what though? I played a little Star Citizen the other day, and there were missiles, guns, lasers, and they all did what they were supposed to. No stupid effects that make my wingman invulnerable, or make it so I cant see out of my god damn windscreen, or make my targeting system not work. And you know what else? It was fun, it felt as if when I got a kill in SC I had earned it through skill and cunning, not managed to scrape by on the back of some silly weapon effects. It was visceral, it was honest, and it felt good. Kind of like Elite before engineers. That is how I will remember Elite, if frontier ever gets its head out its and removes wep effects let me know, I may just be back.
    Amen. There are two paths: space magic (aka Star Trek Online) and realistic (old Elite and, I guess, Star Citizen). I felt very strongly against the introduction of space magic in Engineers because of how it affected Star Trek Online.

    The main problem is players need to know an awful lot about every different spell that can be cast, and how to counter it. Yet this knowledge is not made available in a consolidated format by the developers. Players with tons of cash or access to the beta server can practice to their heart's content, and learn all the counters and how to use the complicated space magic to their advantage. The barrier to entry is all the time required to acquire the magic powers and learn all the counters by reading through forum threads thousands of messages long and talking to players.

    Since devs cannot be asked to produce a thorough instruction manual, however, we're left to the generosity of people with far more spare time to explain the intricacies to us, if they decide sharing that info is worth their time.

  7. #2152
    Originally Posted by CMDR Arguendo View Post (Source)
    So my point stands, the issue is most certainly on your side *

    Not sure why they aren't able to optimalise the XBox more than they do. I assume it's because this game wasn't meant for consoles to begin with, and by looking at the graphics degradation across the board, everyone suffers from it



    *Joke; don't take it too seriously
    I don't expect the game to run as well on XBOX as on PC. But there is no excuse for the commodities market, ship outfitting screen, or pause menu to take 30 seconds to load!

    There are many games on both PC and XBOX like Titanfall 2, Witcher 3, etc. Console graphics are a step down, but I have never seen such a disparity in the basic performance of MENUS.

  8. #2153
    Originally Posted by Kaocraft View Post (Source)
    Even if it's on his side, it's *still* on Fdev's side. It's their job to make the game run properly. "Your computer isn't powerful enough to load the pause screen in less than 30 seconds" is an unacceptable excuse. Galaxy Map - OK there's some wiggle room there - but the blooming pause menu? No other game gets away with this and neither should Elite.
    There's a reasonable limit to that. Fdev shouldn't have to make sure everyone isn't still using PCs built in the 1990s, for instance.

    Regarding consoles - meh. I'm of the view where I see the console market as essentially a racket and wonder why anybody buys consoles at all any more when they can buy working PCs for the same price.

    And 2.3 includes loads of performance improvements, so....
    Emergent. Gameplay. Depth. Three words that all simultaneously mean anything and nothing at all. Expand your vocabulary, people!

  9. #2154
    Originally Posted by CMDR Arguendo View Post (Source)
    There is no point in staying on-topic anymore, as they already confirmed that this change has been thrown overboard....like it was last time. You want to keep discussing something that they have tried twice to implement, but won't because a proportion of the player base are crying about not being allowed to have God-ships or all the time they spent to engineer their God-ships?
    Git god! Hallelujah!

    But seriously...

    God ships? That's not what people want.

    But not everyone has macros, voice commands, bandwidth monitoring, and a HOTAS with lots of extra buttons to automatically change power levels and firing configurations etc. I can appreciate why players want to make the game easier to play by using lots of fancy hardware and software like that, and I can understand why as a result they'd want ships to be easier to kill etc.

    But for those of us on laggy old XBOX, with nothing but a controller, no access to the beta server to learn all the new tricks, etc., the game is more difficult. Even to change power levels or do contextual commands you must take your finger off one or both of the flight sticks.

    Maybe if they implemented the "test mode" I suggested so players could practice combat more, and/or maybe if they enabled voice commands via the headset, etc., it would even things up a bit.

    Or have Open Mode feature some restrictions on ship builds that we don't see in other modes. I dunno, it's tough to keep everyone happy, and I don't envy FDev's position.

    Even just dramatically lowering rebuy costs and covering cargo would make people more OK with the game being much riskier. But having a super high rebuy cost like 25+ million does not encourage anyone to want their ships to become squishier.

  10. #2155
    Originally Posted by Vitamin Arrr View Post (Source)
    God ships? That's not what people want.
    From what I have seen, the ones opposing this change are pretty much worried that they can't go to a CZ in a Cutter and basically go AFK while their ship kills NPCs without a scratch to their shields. 5000MJ shields? Oh yes, they want a God Ship

    But not everyone has macros, voice commands, bandwidth monitoring, and a HOTAS with lots of extra buttons to automatically change power levels and firing configurations etc. I can appreciate why players want to make the game easier to play by using lots of fancy hardware and software like that, and I can understand why as a result they'd want ships to be easier to kill etc.
    It seems like you have missed large parts of the evolution. This has nothing to do with macros and third-party apps. It has to do with hitpoint inflation (stole that phrasing from Truesilver, creds to him) ever since 2.1 was released. Here's the short version:
    1: 2.1 released with Engineers. Incredible shields available to all, heat weapons available to mitigate those shields
    2: Heat weapons nerfed. Shields remain the same
    3: 2.2.03 Beta suggests Shield Booster nerf, but increased recharge time. Only the latter was included in 2.2.03 Live

    So what you basically have are better and better shields, with everything to counter them being removed or never being implemented. There were supposed to be counters for the shields we see now, but they aren't in the game anymore. Unfortunately, people love their shields so much now, because they are invincible to all NPCs and pretty much anything other than a thorough Gank Squad, so they are extremely reluctant to give them up.

  11. #2156
    Originally Posted by CMDR Arguendo View Post (Source)
    From what I have seen, the ones opposing this change are pretty much worried that they can't go to a CZ in a Cutter and basically go AFK while their ship kills NPCs without a scratch to their shields. 5000MJ shields? Oh yes, they want a God Ship


    It seems like you have missed large parts of the evolution. This has nothing to do with macros and third-party apps. It has to do with hitpoint inflation (stole that phrasing from Truesilver, creds to him) ever since 2.1 was released. Here's the short version:
    1: 2.1 released with Engineers. Incredible shields available to all, heat weapons available to mitigate those shields
    2: Heat weapons nerfed. Shields remain the same
    3: 2.2.03 Beta suggests Shield Booster nerf, but increased recharge time. Only the latter was included in 2.2.03 Live

    So what you basically have are better and better shields, with everything to counter them being removed or never being implemented. There were supposed to be counters for the shields we see now, but they aren't in the game anymore. Unfortunately, people love their shields so much now, because they are invincible to all NPCs and pretty much anything other than a thorough Gank Squad, so they are extremely reluctant to give them up.
    The MJ being high was never a problem, the resistances are what is causing the issue. And you're right that only those who spent far too much time throwing mats away on them would oppose a resistance nerf. High MJ are easily defeatable, insane resists aren't.

    The heat meta was never intended to mitigate large shields, it was, and still is, meant to BYPASS the shields.

  12. #2157
    Originally Posted by Vitamin Arrr View Post (Source)
    Git god! Hallelujah!

    But seriously...

    God ships? That's not what people want.

    But not everyone has macros, voice commands, bandwidth monitoring, and a HOTAS with lots of extra buttons to automatically change power levels and firing configurations etc. I can appreciate why players want to make the game easier to play by using lots of fancy hardware and software like that, and I can understand why as a result they'd want ships to be easier to kill etc.

    But for those of us on laggy old XBOX, with nothing but a controller, no access to the beta server to learn all the new tricks, etc., the game is more difficult. Even to change power levels or do contextual commands you must take your finger off one or both of the flight sticks.

    Maybe if they implemented the "test mode" I suggested so players could practice combat more, and/or maybe if they enabled voice commands via the headset, etc., it would even things up a bit.

    Or have Open Mode feature some restrictions on ship builds that we don't see in other modes. I dunno, it's tough to keep everyone happy, and I don't envy FDev's position.

    Even just dramatically lowering rebuy costs and covering cargo would make people more OK with the game being much riskier. But having a super high rebuy cost like 25+ million does not encourage anyone to want their ships to become squishier.
    God ships are exactly what a loud segment of the community want. If you pay attention they will straight up say "I spent hours grinding so I deserve to be invincible". Sickening.

    This game shouldn't be on consoles. I play on a potato and it runs better than Xbox. Consoles just don't have the power or the peripherals.

    Never lower rebuy. If you are losing a 25+ million ship regularly then you need to go back to a smaller ship until you can learn proper decision making.

  13. #2158
    Originally Posted by foebits View Post (Source)
    The MJ being high was never a problem, the resistances are what is causing the issue. And you're right that only those who spent far too much time throwing mats away on them would oppose a resistance nerf. High MJ are easily defeatable, insane resists aren't.
    Tell that to the people complaining about the MJs "disappearing". They are worried about their Cutter going from 5k+ to 2,5k, completely disregarding resistances as a factor. Which makes sense, as most of the people complaining are mostly PvE, as far as I can tell. And the resistances don't matter much against them. High MJs will do the job just fine.

    The heat meta was never intended to mitigate large shields, it was, and still is, meant to BYPASS the shields.
    A bit semantic, but yes, they were meant as a counter to the massive shields. They don't directly mitigate the shields themselves. that's true.

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