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Thread: Buckyball Racing Club Presents: Heavy Metal

  1. #256
    Originally Posted by furrycat View Post (Source)
    Finally my mathematics degree comes in useful!

    Multiplying by 1.1 gives the figure you would receive if you made 1,773,101 plus a 10% bonus. Which is not the same as the original figure being reduced by a 10% deficit.

    The correct calculation is to divide by 0.9.

    Your original profit is reduced by 10%. If P is the profit earned from trading and your crewmate takes 10% your cut is P - (P x [10 / 100]) or P x ([100 - 10] / 100) = P x 0.9 therefore to calculate the actual profit given your share and the crew's percentage you must divide both sides by 0.9. So you would have earned 1,773,101 / 0.9 = 1,970,112Cr.

    Which may or may not make you feel better.
    I may or may not have thrown most of my gaming rig down from the fourth floor. People below may or may not have been injured.

    Thanks a lot for the clarification, I knew the maths weren't spot on (that's what the "rough maths" and "not the exact percentage but close" disclaimers were for), but I couldn't be bothered with getting around to do the correct calculations. This may or may not have to do with the fact that I'm as dumb as an ox, especially at maths. Can't feel but respect toward everyone good enough to get a degree in any scientific subject, especially maths!

    *goes back to his cave to chip his flints*


    Originally Posted by Stern Winter View Post (Source)
    A question remains: What will I do with my T9 now ?
    Is anyone interested in purchasing a virtually new Lakon Type 9 Heavy, with less than 500LY on the clock ? There are a couple of minor scratches, but they will buff out easily
    Ask Polly, if you left your T9 pointed in the right direction she might be interested in a purchase.

    Originally Posted by Polly View Post (Source)
    I hated this ship right from the start. But it kind of grows on you. Like a yeast infection.
    Poetic license at its finest.

  2. #257
    My penalty box run was:

    1. Marshburn Dock (Banapityas) -> Andrews Depot (Sounti) with Bertrandite
    2. Andrews Depot (Sounti) -> Marshburn Dock (Banapityas) with Nerve Agents
    3. Marshburn Dock(Banapityas) -> Steinmuller's Folly (u Carinae) with Bertrandite
    4. Steinmuller's Folly (u Carinae) -> Marshburn Dock (Banapityas) with Nerve Agents

    Andrews Depot and Steinmuller's Folly are both planetary bases.
    • Gravity for Andrews Depot (Sounti A 3) was 0.48G
    • Gravity for Steinmuller's Folly (u Carinae AB 1) was 0.88G.

    From Andrews Depot, Banapityas is obscured on the other side of the planet, so to acquire a line-of-sight required an intermediary jump through another system as a shortcut; I used CD-51 4783 for that.

    If a better pilot than myself could have shaved 5 minutes off my time (easily doable) with better profit (again, easily doable) they still wouldn't have threatened any of the top T-9 positions.


  3. #258
    Thanks for the race ElectricZ! Congratulations to all the participants and especially the winners

    Didn't have much time to race but what I did do has given me something to look forward to next time I login.. Selling that type 9!!
    Veteran of Lugh, Bast and Hutton Orbital

    We fought for freedom, life and mugs

  4. #259


    "It's your one way ticket to midnight! Call it Heavy Metal!
    Higher than high, feelin' just right! Call it Heavy Metal!
    Desperation on a red line! Call it Heavy Metal noise!"
    --CMDR Hagar

    Just what it says on the tin. Grats to CMDRs Cookiehole, Aken B., and Drakhyr for coming out on top in their respective classes, and for everybody who came out to sacrifice some Lakons in the Buckyball Racing Club's Heavy Metal! Hopefully, for once, you made more money than you spent.

    I had a lot of fun putting this together! I've always thought that racing was the path for any CMDR to become a better pilot, and in all the races the past few years you all have pushed ships from every manufacturer to the limit. It was really cool to give the Lakon line their due. When I first suggested this race, I wasn't sure if anybody would go for it. It represented a potentially costly event with slow moving, boring as hell ships, but in the end I think it turned out exciting as hell. Seeing fully laden ships fling themselves through the slot in your videos represented some supremely suspenseful moments. A highlight reel of the best hits and worst misses would be very entertaining indeed.

    But it's all about the challenge, and of course anybody who calls themselves a Buckyballer wouldn't let a rebuy or two stand in the way of a good time. I'm glad it worked out - and also that (almost) everybody made a few creds off of it.

    So, from an organizer's perspective, I wanted to do a race where trading was a factor, but speed was still as important, so thus was borne the Profit Per Second metric. I couldn't come up with a good way to balance the different classes, so early on I decided to make each Type it's own class even though everyone would record times on the same leaderboard. That being said, I had to pick a route.

    I set about first trying to find a nice triangle trade setup... High Tech to Extraction to Industrial, Ag to Refinery to Industrial, etc. There were lots of candidate systems, but in order to make it far for the T9 and it's horrid laden FSD range, I had to keep the systems close so every route would be one jump long max. That axed a lot of candidate systems. Furthermore, I needed stable systems with strong economies and high security. I wanted some variation in market prices and commodities, but I didn't want anyone to be able to come in and wipe out a market, or worse, have some clown come in and put a system into lockdown through underhanded shenanigans, so I was instantly looking for systems with multimillion or billion populations. And finally, I needed systems that had a good mix of stations and platforms all within range of the jump point. I found a ton of interesting systems with all kinds of neat navigational challenges: white dwarves, binary and trinary planets, ringed planets, etc... but they all had supercruise distances of 1000 ls or more. I wanted a race that could be done quickly, and without the tedium of long times in SC.

    I briefly considered the Lave cluster. It had a great combination of a variety of economies and high population, but also had longer SC times as well as the potential for crashing into passers-by who were just trying to collect rares. I'm a proponent of playing in open, but smashing up some poor scrub who is trying to just make a living is kind of a jerk move, so I kept the race in the sticks.

    Banapityas/Sounti/U Carinae fit the bill, minus the economics. Close in stations, systems within 12 LY jump range, and good, strong economies with high security. Not having high tech around was a bit of a bummer, but doing out-and-back runs from Banapityas actually worked out in testing, and I was really, really happy to see CMDRs like Furrycat and Polly break away from EDDB to find the higher price goods. (As well as Jak for his inventive, but illegal attempt at smuggling. Too bad no one else tried. )

    Anyway, thanks to everybody who participated and made the race a success. I learned a lot about handling a trade ship and even though I don't fly Lakon myself other than my beloved Asp Shipwrecked and Comatose, seeing how to handle big fat transports in supercruise will make handing any other ship a breeze. So, if any station master or local governor ever complains about damage done by having a Buckyball roll through, tell them to chill out and think of the educational value.

    As part of the creative process, I did try to think of an easy, automatic way to weight the different classes that would have involved dividing PPS by cargo capacity. I'm glad I didn't - while it might be able to adjust the numbers to give each ship a "fair" chance against one another, each of the Lakons are different in their own way and should really be only measured against themselves. But, just for funzies, here's what the leaderboard would have looked like, taking cargo capacity into account by dividing Profit Per Second by cargo capacity:


    Clearly the sixes would have had an advantage, as would anybody running without shields. Aken's T7 Holy Cow came closest to challenging the T6's, but given the quality of his run, it might have been hard to catch up. Cookihole's T9 run, however, would have had to close a much smaller gap. Based on this small sample size, and compensating for capacity, ton-per-ton, the T6 is the best performer. Math and statistic nerds feel free to prove me wrong or right!

    Thanks again, and it was good to see a bunch of friendly faces on the grid!

    Originally Posted by Raiko View Post (Source)
    Great race again EZ, say hello to Bucky - and remind him we're all waiting for Buckyball XI!
    I passed it along, Raiko, and he asked me to post this specially recorded video response!



    I tell ya, it gets you right here, doesn't it?

  5. #260
    Best Run: 1932.05 PPS



    Fastest Run 16:21




    Spreadsheet


    Things I Learned From Heavy Metal

    a List by CMDR Bruski

    Don't blindly trust third party tools
    I relied too heavily on EDDB, and while it was very useful for optimizing trades in some ways, it failed to spot things like the Military Fabrics, which was a large PPS bump. There's no substitute for manual testing and notes!
    For my best recorded entry I used Marshburn Gold -> Teng, Minerals Extractors -> Marshburn, Palladium -> Carpenter, Crop Harvesters -> Terechnov. Military fabrics would've been better by about 175 credits per ton.

    Be sure to fully upgrade your ship BEFORE the race
    Taking several hours in the middle of the race to go upgrade the T-9 thrusters was worth it (finally the Type-( can TURN!), but a giant pain. Procrastinate less SpaceBear!

    Testing new trading approaches is worth it
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned, how did people buy things at the station? I originally tried to land, hit "enter hangar" and complete buying before I got to the bottom so I could launch again immediately. I wasn't ever able to pull this off, so I ended up going all the way into the hangar, and then launching from there, which is a roundtrip of 45-50 seconds. However after some testing, I discovered if I traded while sitting on the pad, and then hit "launch" directly from the pad, I could get finished in as little as 30-35 seconds.

    Having favorite pads is a good thing
    Early on I figured out that pads 10, 25, and 40 were at the very back of the station, which seemed to be the best bet for landing and launching the Type-9. It might've taken a bit longer to get there than the middle pads, but on launch I was able to boost off the pad, which is a significant advantage given the normal aceleration of the T-9. It would be interesting to know if anyone tried pads 17, 2, and 32, as they're close to the front, but not right up against it like 24,9,ad 39. I personally found them too stifling and hit the bulkheads repeatedly when I tried.

    Be sure to submit your runs before the race ends!
    Otherwise you can't submit runs via the form and are punished for your procrastination.

    Be sure to hit "record" before a run.
    There's always "the one that got away". Also probably a good idea to put the recording software on the second monitor so you can double-check it during the race.

    Even the T-9 can boost off the pad.
    Initially I thought this was insanity, but from the back pads with the right alignment, at worst there's only a slight scraping o paint and hull as one heaves through the docking slot, and a second boost through the toast-rack.

    Always question your assumptions and habits.
    At first I tried the standard cookiehole approach from supercruise with the Type-9. It did not go well. However, with the advantage of station orientation displayed in patch 2.3, it was possible to align properly while still far away from the planet and get some gravity braking action in.



    Will amend list if I think of any more. Thanks ElectricZ for the awesome race, and everyone else for showing up for the fun!

  6. #261
    Originally Posted by Bruski View Post (Source)
    Testing new trading approaches is worth it
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned, how did people buy things at the station? I originally tried to land, hit "enter hangar" and complete buying before I got to the bottom so I could launch again immediately. I wasn't ever able to pull this off, so I ended up going all the way into the hangar, and then launching from there, which is a roundtrip of 45-50 seconds. However after some testing, I discovered if I traded while sitting on the pad, and then hit "launch" directly from the pad, I could get finished in as little as 30-35 seconds.
    I normally navigate station UIs with mouse clicks, but after a few runs I re-familiarized myself with joystick-hat controls as a secondary mapping to the keyboard ones. That shaved at least 5 to 10 seconds off each station visit.

    edit: specifically, a single-button BACK/EXIT command was tremendously more accurate and faster than moving focus around


  7. #262
    Originally Posted by ElectricZ View Post (Source)
    But, just for funzies, here's what the leaderboard would have looked like, taking cargo capacity into account by dividing Profit Per Second by cargo capacity:
    Interesting, let's see ... instead of coming 13th I would have come .... hmmm, 13th. Brilliant! See, I told you that you should have weighted the scores!

    I passed it along, Raiko, and he asked me to post this specially recorded video response!

    http://i.imgur.com/dUem1TL.gif

    I tell ya, it gets you right here, doesn't it?
    This reminds me of Vinnie Jones in Lock Stock ... Bucky clearly found it an "emotional" experience.

    Fly safe EZ, and thanks again ... for everything!


  8. #263
    Interesting analysis and thoughts from @Bruski .
    I learned long ago from regular trading in my T9 that it was quicker to do my trading on the pad without entering the hangar and to just hit launch when done. I am faster with the mouse than using keypresses to navigate the menu but still clearly much slower than other people. Out of habit, on one or two runs I took screenshots of my arrival times on the pad and it was taking me 30-40 seconds just to get to the commodities screen and select the goods I wanted to sell. I think my new graphics drivers added a few seconds to that later in the race but I suspect that it is just that my laptop is slow that is causing me to have long loading times. This is one of the reasons I am thinking about getting a PS4 Pro this year - I know I'll be on a level playing field. In my T9 I tended to get pads 2 and 17 but occasionally 10 and 25 iirc during my runs but boosting out of the slot was not something I did because of traffic (the T6 was a different matter!). Hitting a small ship coming the other way would be fatal - you'd destroy it and get blown up by the station. I had a collision with an Asp on one run but was thankfully not doing 100m/s at the time - with the thrusters on the Extra Zero, her cruising speed is just over 90 m/s fully laden with 4 pips in ENG.
    It was fun racing with you and I'll see you at the next race! o7

  9. #264
    For people who aren't so quick on the UI as the Bruskis of this world, selling while the ship enters the hangar and buying as it returns to the surface may work out quicker than trying to do the whole song and dance in one go then launching.

    The latter is the absolute quickest if you physically can do it, of course.

    For my own part my method was as soon as the station menu animation starts it was left hand off the throttle on to the stalwart Nostromo n52 pad, right hand off the joystick on to the mouse. Click on the market button, move mouse into the commodities listing, scroll down using the wheel on the pad (I hate and do not have a scrollwheel on my mouse) to the bottom keeping an eye out for something in the cargo column which I can sell. Mouse over to the sell button and keep the button down while moving over the submit icon ready to click as soon as all the widgets are unloaded. Then scroll to buy and repeat.

    Military-grade fabrics were always at the bottom of the list so giving the scroll wheel a damn good thrashing would reach them with minimum effort or thinking required. The metals were a bit higher up so a sharp eye is needed to spot them and stop scrolling at the appropriate moment.

    Finally while the right hand is prepping the click to confirm the transaction the left hand is back on the throttle ready to hit the back key out through the station menus and launch. Right hand back on the joystick and we're away.

    The Warthog throttle has toggle switches at the bottom which are perfect for landing gear and cargo scoop. Perfect for immersion, that is. Having to take a hand off one of the controls to reach them isn't ideal for a fast takeoff or landing if I'm honest. I usually use the joystick hand for that since the throttle hand can be accelerating up and forward while the landing gear switch is switched.
    . . . |\_/| . . .
    . . .>(o.o)<. . .
    . . . ( ¤ ),. . .
    . . . ^^ ^^ . . .
    The above is a 100% authentic furrycat post.
    Read with confidence wherever you see the cat symbol.
    Warning: may contain sarcasm, satire and traces of irony.

  10. #265
    Sorry I was out this whole weekend at NewMexicon (local gaming convention)

    Originally Posted by ElectricZ View Post (Source)
    Money's been your big booster, Polly... Bruski's been beating you on the clock. Leaving streaks of hull plating in the slot and on the pad are cutting into his profit. Suffice to say you two have the closest PPS of anybody this race after your last run.
    Originally Posted by Polly View Post (Source)
    We obviously use a different tactic. The interesting thing is that we get quite similar results in the end.
    Still, I would think twice before buying a previously owned ship from him.
    o7 Bruski!
    If you aren't crashing you aren't trying, right?

    o7 Polly

    Speaking of which:


    Type-9 for sale!
    10 days old, <2000 LY
    Overpowered 7A Thrusters
    532 ton cargo capacity
    Authentic "distressed" paint job!
    Display your credibility and experience with the sexiest T-9 on the block, grooves carved into her hull from years of hard space-trucking experience.
    No one will question your reputation as a real hauler when they see you lurch up in this ride!

    Please Contact CMDR Bruski 505-050-5500
    130m credits OBO



    All I have to say is I think Big Haul Like That is my favorite ship name of the race and it's pained me to see it languishing in dock when every two-bit scurvy pirate has been calling it's name. Good luck, Cookie!
    WHY?! WHY WOULD YOU EVER SAY THAT?!




    Originally Posted by ElectricZ View Post (Source)
    But then, as the racing day came to a close... (dun dun DUN) Cookiehole happened. "Speak his name, and he appears," as the saying goes. Yesterday I offhandedly mentioned that the Cookiehole hysteria thing might have been bovine biowaste, but nope. Here he is, in the awesomely named Big Haul Like That, with a PPS of 115 over Furrycat's epic 500-ton run. He did it without a single cookiebot in sight, too. Huh, sorry I doubted everybody. I apparently made Cookiehole feel like he needed to prove something. My bad, y'all.
    SEE?!


    Originally Posted by ElectricZ View Post (Source)
    Racing T-9's was the favorite by far. You people are nuts.
    He's so nice to us! Thanks ElectricZ.

    Buckyballers roll overwhelmingly in open.
    It's required for many of the races, and it's way more fun to see (and run into) other racers on the course, loading times be damned!

    Congrat's to the winners and yeah, congrat's to the losers ... 'cos there are no losers in Buckyball right? just racers.
    Exactly, just super cool racers.

    Originally Posted by racer1 View Post (Source)
    Was hoping to manage another run yesterday but was exhausted after a day of 4 wheel buckyball like activities in RL - in which I faired similarly poorly lol.
    Ah, I hope it was fun though! My race-related activity this weekend was a heavy metal LARP


    (spot the spacebear)

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    I must confess that I still haven't memorized the landing pad positions so I tend to take whatever I'm assigned but I'm curious, did anyone who does know their pads favour those at the back of the station for this race (I say this having just watched a Darkfyre video that illustrates the classic overshoot and swing back around manoeuvre commonly associated with the Lakon traders).
    I don't have most of the pads memorized (yet) but I ALWAYS keep Drakhyr's handy chart on my second monitor:



    At this point I should really print it out and laminate it, maybe get a nice frame. It's so damn useful.

    I've also made versions with only small pads:


    And only large pads:



    Originally Posted by Onane View Post (Source)
    Reading a little would have prevented the loss of time and resources... As the names implies when you analyzes the name "Fast Boot Sequence"... means it start faster when disabled... not enhancing the charge time...
    (As Cmdr furrycat posted in The Buckyballer's guide to Engineering....)
    So that's why "I feel more or less the same"; because it is.
    Yeah, that engineer upgrade needs to come with a big disclaimer "MOST USELESS MOD EVER". I feel its title is very misleading. Even though I should know better, I heavily considered it when planning out the mods for this race, then remembered what it actually did.


    Originally Posted by Polly View Post (Source)
    Thanks EZ for arranging this great race! o7

    I'll only make a very short post-race report, partly because I'm on a secret mission until thursday, but mainly because furrycat just wrote everything worth writing.

    The T9:
    I hated this ship right from the start. But it kind of grows on you. Like a yeast infection.
    I decided to use shields. It's quite common for me to bump into other things (including, but not limited to: belugas, stations, planets and other racers) when flying.
    I am uncertain why I used a 5D shield when I could have used a 5A without any significant effect on speed and range. Spinal reflex, perhaps?
    Since I got interdicted a lot (felt like that anyway) I used shock mines and heat sinks to avoid the rebuy screen.
    Like furry, I checked the prices manually and found the military grade fabrics. This was my usual route:
    Marshburn (Au) -> Teng (mil. grade fab.) -> Marshburn (Pd) -> Carpenter (crop harvesters) -> Treschov
    Yeast infection is the best analogy. I loathed it the first few times I tried it, and now even though I still detest it's handling, I'm considering doing a Black Riband run just for the hell of it. Everyone should come bring theirs! It'll be FUN*!

    *Dwarf Fortress style

    After reading post #232 I spaced and shot (yes, in exactly that order) my freeloading crewmember.
    Sounds like a reasonable course of action to me.

    I'm picturing something like this:




    Originally Posted by Jhyrryl View Post (Source)
    If a better pilot than myself could have shaved 5 minutes off my time (easily doable) with better profit (again, easily doable) they still wouldn't have threatened any of the top T-9 positions.
    Dang, finding something like that is commendable for the effort alone. I'm really not sure 5 minutes could be saved. (although I think it's usually faster to supercruise away from planet for eclipse problems than add another jump, but that only would save like 10-20 seconds. I love the enterprising spirit though, no wonder I couldn't find any nerve agents!

  11. #266
    Originally Posted by Bruski View Post (Source)
    I don't have most of the pads memorized (yet)
    Just remember my rule of paw:

    SMALL pad you want the last digit to be 3, 4, 8 or 9.
    LARGE pad you want 10, 25 or 40.
    MEDIUM pad why are you flying a medium ship?
    . . . |\_/| . . .
    . . .>(o.o)<. . .
    . . . ( ¤ ),. . .
    . . . ^^ ^^ . . .
    The above is a 100% authentic furrycat post.
    Read with confidence wherever you see the cat symbol.
    Warning: may contain sarcasm, satire and traces of irony.

  12. #267
    Originally Posted by Bruski View Post (Source)
    I don't have most of the pads memorized (yet) but I ALWAYS keep Drakhyr's handy chart on my second monitor:

    http://www.buckyballracing.org.uk/im...ing%20pads.jpg

    At this point I should really print it out and laminate it, maybe get a nice frame. It's so damn useful.
    I have it printed out, laminated and safely stored away on the shelf above my computer - where it does me no good whatsoever. One of the other problems I have is finding the number of the pad I've been given on the diagram in time to make a decision, cancel, re-apply and re-check without flying straight past (or into) the station. I had hoped that over time I would develop an innate sense of where all the pads were. Thus far this hasn't happened.

    I've also been meaning to try out EDDI. I believe that it's possible to get it configured so that when you get assigned your pad number it will then say the pad's position out loud (i.e. "landing pad 38 is on the right, at the back of the station"). I have to say that would be absolutely awesome.


  13. #268
    First up thanks to EZ for a great race and a few credits to boot! Pity i didn't get chance to try in anything other than T9. Congrats to everyone for having a whole truck load of fun, loved the videos and the post race analysis.


    Originally Posted by Bruski View Post (Source)
    Yeast infection is the best analogy. I loathed it the first few times I tried it, and now even though I still detest it's handling, I'm considering doing a Black Riband run just for the hell of it. Everyone should come bring theirs! It'll be FUN*!
    I've had the same lingering thought for a while now, but have never had the 'right' engineered modules. Maybe now is the time.


    The pad alloaction chart is pinned up next to my monitor.


    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    I've also been meaning to try out EDDI. I believe that it's possible to get it configured so that when you get assigned your pad number it will then say the pad's position out loud (i.e. "landing pad 38 is on the right, at the back of the station"). I have to say that would be absolutely awesome.
    I can confirm this is possible. I, however, get terribly confused between being told that "landing pad 10 is at 4 o'clock as you enter with the green lights on your right". having navigated the toast rack i'm then left wondering did EDDI say 10 oclock or 4 oclock. Never let it be said that my attention span is short

    <-lightspeed->
    CMDR <-lightspeed-> Expert | Tycoon | ELITE but mostly Buckyball Racer

    <-lightspeed-> Explorer Tours
    The HIP Hopper }{ Distant Worlds }{ Colonia/Jaques


  14. #269
    At last, my T9 run (featuring my blazing fast starting maneuver, where I hit launch and immediately after that I open the map because curse me, right?):



    and my T7 run:



    No T6 run because I'm lazy.

  15. #270
    Originally Posted by furrycat View Post (Source)
    Just remember my rule of paw:

    SMALL pad you want the last digit to be 3, 4, 8 or 9.
    LARGE pad you want 10, 25 or 40.
    MEDIUM pad why are you flying a medium ship?
    No one expects the racing Fer-de-Lance!
    CMDR Timothy Knight - Interstellar Swashbuckler - Buckyball Runner - Master | Merchant | Ranger
    Joyeuse - Imperial Courier - Racing/Fast Transport/Exploration - Buckyball Run X Solo/Big X Class Winner | BuckyBubble Top Fuel Class Winner
    Haulin' A* - Hauler - Endurance Racing - A* Challenge Standard/Hauler Class Record 9:35:22
    Cortana - Imperial Eagle - Racing - Mischief Mile Crazies Class Winner
    Durandal - Imperial Courier - Combat/Armed Transport
    Excalibur - Fer-de-Lance - Combat

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