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Thread: Star Citizen Thread v6

  1. #7216
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Would you be able to tell the difference between ED Stellar Forge galaxy and a randomly generated galaxy that has the well known constellations and nebulae?
    I like to think I would. I happen to enjoy astronomy, space-based games, and science fiction in general, and I generally like the harder stuff, over space opera or science fantasy. As a result, I've done quite a bit of "homework" in this area. Unlike certain recent additions to Elite: Dangerous (telepresence, "massless" materials), or an attempted addition that the ED community thankfully rejected (large scale 3D printing), the results that come from the Stellar Forge don't feel off. There are SOME anomalies, but the only one I've ever encountered so far was the result adding a rather focused real-life stellar survey into the game, creating a rather noticeable line of class A stars.

    What Elite: Dangerous produces isn't random, and as a result, it is possible to make science-based predictions and get results.

    I've done two long-term exploration journeys so far.

    The first was just after Horizons went out, where I spent a lot of time simply gathering data on worlds, gathering material data as part of a player-based effort to figure out the logic behind material distribution. This was a group of players doing science in a video game. We even got some results, the most useful of which is the 3-2-1 rule.

    My second was a more traditional exploration journey, where my primary focus was finding not just earth-like worlds, but terraformable worlds. Before I set out, I did a bit of homework on the approximate size of the habitable zones based on star type, what range of size and mass for worlds would likely produce good terraformable candidates, and how far beyond both ranges should I look to get outliers. I feel like I got pretty good results.

    My NEXT big exploration journey is going to have to wait until Frontier adds at least two of the following: atmospheric entry, a wider variety of tools to use, or more things to DO on worlds. As much as I like exploration, I also thrive on variety, and the current offering just isn't varied enough. I might two weeks before I feel the call of the Bubble and the siren call of civilization.

    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    I would prefer 8 detailed solar system to billions of very similar empty planets. It's like No Man's Sky where such a big deal was made over the procedural universe but players found that this feature didn't contribute to engaging gameplay.
    Everyone has their own preferences. I, personally, like to be surprised, which is why I backed ED at the alpha level. I have loved the previous three Elite games, and I had confidence that they would do a good job on procedural generation, which is capable of surprising me in the long term. Whenever a region of space starts to feel overly familiar, when the stuff I do becomes old hat, I can simply relocate to a new theatre of operations, and begin the process of discovery all over again. Its proposed ten year development cycle was one I could easily occupying a lot of my gaming time.

    I backed Star Citizen primarily because it was a different Universe that Elite's. It would be a new Universe to explore, new experiences to create, and new challenges to overcome. It was going to be a way to refresh my space-game energies, and scratch a different itch than Elite does. Unfortunately, I no longer have any confidence that it will ever get a chance to do so.

    In 2012, I backed four games:
    • Elite: Dangerous - An ambitious game by a developer whose games I had enjoyed, with a promised release date of 2014, a "lot of R&D done already," and a "ten year" plan for improvements after release.
    • Star Citizen - Another ambitious game by a developer whose games I had enjoyed, with a promised release date of 2014, a "working prototype," with "stretch goals" based on funding.
    • FTL - A cute little "rogue like," with a promised released date of later that year.
    • Stonehearth - A cute little "fantasy village" building game, with a promised released date of 2013.


    Elite: Dangerous has managed to meet my expectations. Though the "telepresence" debacle is still a bit of a raw nerve for me, I still find myself buying paint jobs for some of my new ships.

    FTL also managed to meet my expectations. In fact, I enjoyed it so much, I also bought it for my iPad.

    Stonehearth remains in alpha, primarily due to the developers having to do a complete rehaul of their scaffolding logic, so that more complex buildings could be constructed. Despite being in Alpha, all its primary gameplay loops are there, and content is added frequently. The dev team has a detailed roadmap for their development, and keep us updated every Tuesday with both their successes and failures. I've logged about a hundred hours in the game so far, both because its a fun game to play, and because its fun to watch my little hearthlings go about their day. The game recently added "conversations" (via pictographs) and personalities to the hearthlings, leading to a situation where I saw a hearthling run away from a conversation in tears, because a guy with the "callous" trait brought up his dead bunny.

    Finally, there's Star Citizen, a game where so much feature creep has set in, I no longer have confidence it will see release before the $150 million dollars (!!!) they're raised so far is consumed. The recent establishment of a shell company, "Cloud Imperial Rights," has legal shenanigans written all over it, which is why I recently asked for a refund. I am more than willing to pay for a proper early access, at a higher price... but only if I think that higher price has more entertainment value than a night at the discount movies or a round of discounted weekday golf.

  2. #7217
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Would you be able to tell the difference between ED Stellar Forge galaxy and a randomly generated galaxy that has the well known constellations and nebulae?

    I would prefer 8 detailed solar system to billions of very similar empty planets. It's like No Man's Sky where such a big deal was made over the procedural universe but players found that this feature didn't contribute to engaging gameplay.
    Ofcourse, thats an absurd question. No offense, but you either are confused about what the words random/pg means or you know nothing of astronomy.

  3. #7218
    One of the issues I forsee with the '3.0 akin to early access' is that people hate monetisation in early access games. Look at PUBG and the response to their microtransactions and that's typical behaviour. CIG are going to want to carry on selling their concept ships, UEC, all the stuff in the Voyager store etc. Will people just accept it because Star Citizen has become synonymous with spending money on an undelivered game?

  4. #7219
    I think was really happened is

    Chris Roberts made a computer animated film in Cryengine/Cinebox back in 2011 because it was cheap, easy to use and allowed him with his limited technological understanding to live out his movie director urges.
    After he got the run-down among the Publishers and realized he had no hope in making anybody believe in him after his telling past he started the Kickstarter project with his cute little computer movie.
    Right after he wrote the original "Pledge to the backers" he started to make the game he envisioned a reality only to discover pretty quickly that its impossible to do with the chosen engine.
    The following 2 years are an up and down of talented people coming and going after they tell CRoberts what cannot be done and hes not having any of it.
    All the while as the company is still busy trying to figure out the very basics (and failing) they have to keep up the fascade of progress and growth resulting in the increase of company size which in the end only increased the funding drain.
    Its this period of time CiG discovers that JPEGs can make a pretty penny and more and more of their focus shifts from actual development to active misdirection and deception in order to keep the money rolling.
    Its also this time that many employees notice "somethings up" and are uncomfortable with it.
    Confusion and hesitation spreads as was appareant on many early ATVs. People being unsure what to say and generally behaving nervous and jiggly.
    After they fall behind in schedule massively because even the basics take so darn long early test modules release with a heavy delay and are received with mixed feelings among the backers.
    Early attempts to patch the PU result in the hilarious patcher history as well as making the whole thing worse often breaking more things without fixing any existing bugs.
    Availability of the PU makes it very clear that CiG is very far away from anything they promised as most existing features were hacked.
    As the 2014 date draws near and CiG still being busy figuring out the patcher problem as well as making sense of the engine and its modifications they need a distraction to buy them more time.
    The famous 30K poll representing "all backers" is born and used to extend the available timeframe as well as the scope.
    In addition to the much needed extended time CiG discovers that throwing hot air and polished images at the backers results in millions of addition income.
    Rolling in money they set up a "smoke & mirror" machinery by throwing money at it.

    This machinery is by now the best working feature of Star Citizen, probably because he paid outside contractors to make the videos a reality.


    Its a nice story and more believable then what the shills spout once in a while to be honest

    Originally Posted by Snarfbuckle View Post (Source)
    Well, if they manage that in 3.0 then at least we would get some indication it's possible and that they are getting somewhere.
    The 3.0 presentation at Gamescom 2017 doesnt fill me with hope in this regard to be honest.

  5. #7220
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    Its a nice story and more believable then what the shills spout once in a while to be honest
    A similar level of hyperbole on both sides of the extremes at least.

  6. #7221
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    I'd love to fly to Earth but I can't. I need a permit and to get my permit I have to grind.

    I'm not a SC fan. I paid $60 for a ship and played it for a month or so.

    The demo I saw indicates to me that at least what we saw will get released soon and that would be a big accomplishment.
    You dont need to grind, you need to play the game and you'll get it at some point. If you want it nownownownow the most efficient thing to do would be to do something over and over, but that is your choice.

    Originally Posted by Snarfbuckle View Post (Source)
    I kind of like it, at least better than Elite's airplanes in space but the most glaring problem is the lack of, or impression of MASS on the ships.
    I always wonder if people who say this played ED and know what an airplane is...

  7. #7222
    Gamescom and their own recent admission of bug count indicates it is not gonna be released soon. In fact, it is even worse than last year. They clearly didn't have any more money to create artificial demo and they showed real progress - and there's none.

    3.0 won't arrive in time to save CIG.

  8. #7223
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Originally Posted by frostypaw View Post (Source)
    Still waiting to be able to fly to the sun so we can prove this whole 64bit map thing is actually real tbh.

    Quite honestly why do you reckon they don't even have a visitable sun yet? I woulda thought that'd be an interesting thing and a great chance to show of the GFX.
    I'd love to fly to Earth but I can't. I need a permit and to get my permit I have to grind....
    Not really an equivalent. You need a permit to get to Sol, but that permit is achievable in game. Even without it you can fly to any number of earth like planets, circle them, hang in space and watch them orbit and spin on their axis. You can visit literally billions of other planets and even land on the ones without atmosphere. They exist in the game. The 'sun' in the SC system doesn't seem to actually exist at all. You can't visit it. You cant fly round it. The planets in the 'system' don't orbit it. It looks very much like an image painted on a skybox.

    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    Gamescom and their own recent admission of bug count indicates it is not gonna be released soon. In fact, it is even worse than last year. They clearly didn't have any more money to create artificial demo and they showed real progress - and there's none.

    3.0 won't arrive in time to save CIG.
    I think 3.0 will arrive soon, because I don't think they have any option but to release SOMETHING. I don't think it will be any more than what we have already seen though, so it won't save them anyway.

  9. #7224
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    Gamescom and their own recent admission of bug count indicates it is not gonna be released soon. In fact, it is even worse than last year. They clearly didn't have any more money to create artificial demo and they showed real progress - and there's none.

    3.0 won't arrive in time to save CIG.
    The new shell Co. is to protect assets, in the myriads of shell companies evolving around the Mario Bros, this is a big red flashing light of what to come. so yes I agree.

  10. #7225
    Originally Posted by Snarfbuckle View Post (Source)
    A similar level of hyperbole on both sides of the extremes at least.
    yes, you know just to counter the insanity spouted by the ultras, the difference is I make fun of it while they probably believe it for real


    Hyperbole (ˈ/haɪˈpɜːrbəli/; Ancient Greek: ὑπερβολή, huperbolḗ, from ὑπέρ (hupér, “above”) and βάλλω (bállō, "I throw")) is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device
    Of course I dont really "exaggerate" in my story. Its merely a probable thesis. In this regard you using "Hyperbole" to describe anything remotely negative is more "hyperbolic" then my lil list


    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    I always wonder if people who say this played ED and know what an airplane is...
    Or maybe have a faulty understanding about aeronautics in general just like Chris Roberts.....

  11. #7226
    Originally Posted by Mucka View Post (Source)
    If humanity were just as cynical as most people in this thread we would still be living in caves laughing at people trying to make fire.
    Here is the thing SC fans often dont get. If I say I am going to practice real hard and try to run faster than a jet fighter, that doesnt mean Usain Bolt has no ambition, or didn't perform groundbreaking achievements. If I then later give up and say:"Boy, look at me being all ambitious! Noone tried this before! Maybe we didnt make it in the end, but what an adventure we had! We made history here, we should all be very proud! See ya next kickstarter!" I should be scorned, not applauded. For I did not perform, and Usain did. And I didnt come close, had pointless goals, no planning and never had any confidence myself of achieving anything, I just made those claims because I knew I couldn't do what actual performers already had been doing.

    Mark my words: CR and the frontguard of the SC fans are already in "it doesnt matter if it ever is released, it is about the journey, we are pioneers making history!". There will me a broken MVP, after which the project will slowly fizzle out. Some will maintain that it was the greatest project ever. Some will keep scorning other dev teams who did set out with super ambitious goals and properly executed plans to get a product going. Finally some will maintain that one day CR will return with the Final Patch that would show everyone. Most, however, will either regard SC as a curious tale in the history of failed projects and wishful thinking or not have heard of SC at all.

    Lesson of the day: outrageous promises are not potential. Ambition is not unbridled theorycrafting. Fail to make the distinction and you will in trouble and CR will be in a new sportscar.

    Originally Posted by dayrth View Post (Source)
    I think 3.0 will arrive soon, because I don't think they have any option but to release SOMETHING. I don't think it will be any more than what we have already seen though, so it won't save them anyway.
    Well, it doesnt need to come before citizencon, that is the first next deadline. Which is in six weeks, which has been the ETA for, well, over a year now...

  12. #7227
    Originally Posted by Snarfbuckle View Post (Source)
    Not to mention that 2018-2019 sounds like an reasonable release date now...
    Do you mean for 3.0 or the whole game?!?

    Because with 3.0 tasks running up to December in the current plans that leaves a VAST amount of work for two years don't you think? Still not got one complete system but you think they'll do all the rest and all the career paths and all the systems fully working in that time?

    Serially? I think the 2022 date is possible.... just. But next year and a bit? Not a hope

  13. #7228
    The full 3.0 will not be released in 2017. Oh they'll release a 3.0 update this year I'm fairly sure, but it will not contain the bullet points that were promised at last year's gamescom presentation. Now if you only care about a version number that's fine, but if you want to play what they promised over a year ago, you won't get that this year.

  14. #7229
    "There are many 3.0's but this one is theirs."

  15. #7230
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    Ofcourse, thats an absurd question. No offense, but you either are confused about what the words random/pg means or you know nothing of astronomy.
    It's not an absurd question. I fully understand what the word random means. It should be obvious what I meant from the context.

    My point is that SC doesn't need to use any Stellar Forge technology. You can use other techniques to generate a galaxy such that the distribution of stars is convincing. You can create a function that determines the probability that a system of a certain type will be found at a certain point in space relative to other points. We already have over 1 billion (?) stars mapped so you can just extrapolate from that data to complete the galaxy.

    The bottom line is generating a galaxy is not a huge problem. And the difference in quality of these generated galaxies is not something that most people would notice.