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Thread: Star Citizen Thread v6

  1. #1741
    CIG should abandon the multiplayer part, it's not going to work. Build a game in SP and make a good story like in the witcher series.

    Focus focus focus CR! you need to focus!!!

    Hegh Daq maj jaghpu

  2. #1742
    Originally Posted by Lysander lysan View Post (Source)
    CIG should abandon the multiplayer part, it's not going to work. Build a game in SP and make a good story like in the witcher series.

    Focus focus focus CR! you need to focus!!!
    I really don't want to continue the heavy criticism from last few pages, but do you really expect a story half as good as the one in the Witcher 3 from a person responsible for Wing Commander: The Horror... um, sorry, Wing Commander: The Movie?

  3. #1743
    Originally Posted by henry1491 View Post (Source)
    In my line of work, they'd have been eaten alive by now.
    In any line of work that depends on producing results, they'd be out of business by now. But Star Citizen is not so much a business as it's a cult. The enlightened ones (faithful backers) throw in money and keep the charade going. CIG and Roberts don't need to produce results. They only need to go on promising the sky and keep showing glimpses of pre-scripted stuff or nice looking prototypes that the cultists can drool over. See those awesome videos people made in the alpha (showing no cohesive game mechanics at work nevertheless, but many shinies)?

    If a publisher had delivered what they have ("Alpha 2.6") for the time and money investment of Star Citizen to date, they'd be bancrupt and/or the leading figures would be churned through a meatgrinder by the investors. Backers aren't investors however. They're devoted fans. They've eaten up the vision Roberts sells and delude themselves into some state of mind, where they support that vision becoming reality, if only they buy the new space ship .jpgs.


    It may take them years or decades, but everybody will wake up at some point.
    "I kill Gandalf!" - Igor, Dork Tower ....|.... My desk mounted sim 'pit project

  4. #1744
    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    A bit about insurance, starts at 11 mins 30 secs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGqZE-bTdYg

    You make your claim for a lost ship, pay a percentage of the ship's cost to get it back straightaway or wait for weeks (spitballed) for that figure to decrease.

    I wonder how well this will go down for people that do not have the credits to pay, if they can't afford it they probably don't have another ship so they are being locked out of the gameplay they want to participate in, how is that a good system? There was plenty of noise about waiting a short time (in comparison) for ships and modules in Elite even when you had a ship that you could currently fly.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...t_doesnt_like/
    Dint worry, you can buy credits with real money.


  5. #1745
    Originally Posted by n4p0l3on View Post (Source)
    Like 95% of promised features in sc are only sounds good on paper and for single player game, in mmo environment? Literal pandora box waiting to be opened.
    If it ever releases the Goons will have a field day crashing cheap starter ships into the whales' expensive jpegs. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be so loud it will be heard on Mars.

  6. #1746
    Originally Posted by Mu77ley View Post (Source)
    If it ever releases the Goons will have a field day crashing cheap starter ships into the whales' expensive jpegs. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be so loud it will be heard on Mars.
    Whaling and Blubbering, shurely?

  7. #1747
    Originally Posted by Lysander lysan View Post (Source)
    CIG should abandon the multiplayer part, it's not going to work. Build a game in SP and make a good story like in the witcher series.

    Focus focus focus CR! you need to focus!!!
    I have to agree there. Without serious reworking of the game mechanics regarding system security and ship combat there would be only PvP to do especially in such small levels like the systems actually are and a PvP oriented game with a load of strangers....you can take a look at any of the available survival sandbox games today in order to have an idea how its going to work out. Mechanics like Zetta outlined would ruin the experience, further punish the victim and enforce the feeling of pay-to-win. Its supposed to be an open world filled with strangers (to you). Animosity between people is already high and the game isnt even available yet. I can only imagine how the very first day of Star Citizen will play out Olisar becoming one massive space graveyard within the hour....all the countless instances of it ^^

    Multicrew and teamwork aspects of the game only ever work out if you know people can be relied on and trusted aka friends. Group with strangers and it might work out or not. Only when the ingame assets have cost you 5000 dollars RL money to aquire and you will get punished in case of damage or loss you suddenly wont be as trusting to strangers as you might ve been in a purely pixel-value environment.

    Ship combat is focused around a single pilot, is fast-paced and arkady in nature. How long you survive depends mostly on your evasive skills and the attackers ability to hit. In order for multi-crew ships to allow crew communication and everybody performing a single task you gonna need some slower pace OR a well oiled crew who knows how to work together. Fat chance for a team of strangers to pull this off. We dont know yet how capital ship combat is going to work but it simply cannot be the same as we currently have. Imagine you have to run your character physically through the ships interior to perform battle repairs in the heat of combat. Even without g-forces making the task even harder the amount of time required to get from A to B and finding B at all in order to perform critical emergency repairs all the while a pack of attackers keep punching at you makes this scenario a no-win, especially as you are suddenly not at your console anymore and the ship is missing vital functions while you are otherwise occupied but maybe SC will employ specific crew members just for running through the ship and making repairs....what a great way to play the game

    Would this be real Wing Cmmander successor I could see all of the above working out in a single-player environment, especially combined with a time-accelerating factor which would be impossible in a MP game.

    /sigh

    I am no ultra-material. Even when theorizing the current state of the game and its potential on the end product as well as reality keep popping my soap bubble.

    edit: before anybody comes up with the "work-in-progress" defense. Games getting released cannot claim the "with enough DLCs over time we will become a great game" card really. They have to "work" and be good on release in order to become a success especially when going after that "BDSSE" title. Games like The Division or The Secret World demonstrate this very well. One started out with broken mechanics the other missed his marketing drive. Both never recovered from a weak start even tho the current state of both games is (IMO) much better compared to its release version. Elite Dangerous didnt really promise more then what the game had when it released. There were talks about DLCs and future functionality but you didnt buy ED based on that potential (at least I didnt). You bought it based on what the game offered you at the time. Star Citizen promises the world but we already know we will only get a "MVP" and the stuff we expected it to have at release are a big "maybe" on the following 10 years.

    Yep regardless how I look at Star Citizen, I cannot really see a chance for success anymore. Too many are the pittraps and contradictions by CiG to allow that. And their desperate attempts to fix things usually only make it worse with only the theoretical idea sounding good and impressive. Delivering those ideas either is delayed indefinitely or eventually is implemented as a shadow of what was advertised. This is probably the fate of the game as a whole in the end. (Hoping to) Become a shadow of its idea.

    Well....maybe come 3.0 will change my mind but it looks like its going to make an attempt for christmas 2017 according to rumours (as predicted)

  8. #1748
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    Elite Dangerous didnt really promise more then what the game had when it released. There were talks about DLCs and future functionality but you didnt buy ED based on that potential (at least I didnt). You bought it based on what the game offered you at the time. Star Citizen promises the world but we already know we will only get a "MVP" and the stuff we expected it to have at release are a big "maybe" on the following 10 years.
    i was very satisfied what i got with elite dangerous purchase, so satisfied that i bought horizon as soon as it released.
    but i have to be honest here, horizon has missed lot of promises.

    1st: horizon player isnt equal with non horizon player. back when horizon launched there were talks about how horizon wont give p2w advantage. That became untrue with engineers.

    2nd: planets are still fairly devoid of contend.
    Sure theres loads of stuff to look at but gameplay wise theres pretty much 0 addition there.

    3rd tectonics are still missing. This was promised back during last year's gamescom when they were talking about volcanoes on stream.

    4th multicrew was simplified a lot from initial talk.

    5th only single SRV has been released.

    Overall horizon was welcome addition to elite. But they did miss their promises. They did explain why multicrew had to be simplified (lack of resources and amount of technical difficulties).

    Now in star citizen case they have pretty much missed 90% what they have promised. Even worse they have downgraded the things they showcased (RIP. star marine 2014) and they have downgraded 3.0 to 2.7: Even worse they have let derek smart become the number 1 source of development info of star citizen.


    Like Ed and star citizen is good comparison of game development.
    both over promise. But ED's promises are heavily grounded to realities of game development
    While star citizen's promises arent grounded to anything.Its the personification of ideas guy game.

    Its just shame that general public doesnt care about whats possible and what isnt. They only care about what sounds cool and the more vague you can make the idea the better it will sell.

  9. #1749
    Originally Posted by VidarSnipes View Post (Source)
    I really don't want to continue the heavy criticism from last few pages, but do you really expect a story half as good as the one in the Witcher 3 from a person responsible for Wing Commander: The Horror... um, sorry, Wing Commander: The Movie?
    No, but one can dream, its for free

    Buy an Idris!

    Hegh Daq maj jaghpu

  10. #1750
    Originally Posted by Lysander lysan View Post (Source)
    CIG should abandon the multiplayer part, it's not going to work. Build a game in SP and make a good story like in the witcher series.

    Focus focus focus CR! you need to focus!!!
    I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be

  11. #1751
    Originally Posted by Chevy66 View Post (Source)
    I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be
    would be a good start tho even if too small to hold peoples attention for long. At least it could be a quality base to expand from. Hell with the support, emotional and financial CRoberts got he had the chance to create something awesome here. He just blew it because he is himself. Really a shame.

  12. #1752
    Originally Posted by Chevy66 View Post (Source)
    I'd be happy with that. I backed at $35 I think, so I haven't got a lot at stake. If I got a half decent SP spaceship/FPS hybrid I'd be satisfied. Unfortunately I don't think everyone else would be
    Seconded, I'd happily buy that for 35$.

    So let's hope they can produce a decent game in the end - although, if it's an on-line shooter in space, count me out.

    Originally Posted by Mu77ley View Post (Source)
    If it ever releases the Goons will have a field day crashing cheap starter ships into the whales' expensive jpegs. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be so loud it will be heard on Mars.
    Agreed - it'll be interesting how they approach this rather thorny subject. They must be well aware (from the ED forums alone) how divisive this aspect can prove.
    CMDR PiLhEaD

  13. #1753
    Originally Posted by BurnyBurns View Post (Source)
    ...It may take them years or decades, but everybody will wake up at some point.
    I think this plays into a rather nasty dilemma facing CIG. The longer they delay, the further along the rails their hype-train can trundle. So whatever they release always needs to be 'better'. Leading to more delays, for which they need more funding, so they promise yet more ships and shiny. And so it goes on.

    Of course they could release 'early' (ahem), but it's likely that they've already taken as many uncritical pre-orders as they can, and subsequent purchasers will likely wait for reviews and (new) player feedback before committing. And those who backed the game to get it to 'completion' will then also have a chance to review their investment against their return - a 35$ computer game.

    I really do hope they produce something worth playing, but I just can't see things going smoothly somehow.
    CMDR PiLhEaD

  14. #1754
    JohnMice is offline
    This user was unable to follow the forum rules and ended up banned or suspended! :(

    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    No, it is not irrelevant, and you cant weasel your way out of it like that. When I order a hundred cookies, I expect a hundred cookies. And I expect them by the promised time. I do most certainly not expect a handful of cookies, years later than promised, with a note saying "but they taste great and more might come!". Its absurd. The fact you even write it down is weird. Besides, there currently are zero options and gameplay anyway. We know for a fact we wont get the promised 100 systems (along with many other lies) and you cannot compensate for that with stuff you are just hoping for. And no, pointing towards the 'netcode' (which we were promised would be Super Amazingly Awesome EVERY SINGLE NEXT PATCH) is not an excuse either.

    We were promised a living, breathing universe of 100 systems for 2014. We now have a promise they are 'aiming' to give us five systems, with zero gameplay as of yet available, the network being in as dire a situation as it was years ago, and all you've got to counter is another pointless GIF and promises about cool stuff 'in the next patch'? Really? Well, color me unconvinced.

    Yes, Cryengine can make pretty pictures. Everyone knows that. Now where is the game we were promised.
    I'd say that going with the comparison of "ordering cookies" and making an ambitious video-game through crowdfunding is not going to help your "case".

    Game development is very hard to predict and intentions are not promises this is one of the many universal truths of the video-game industry.

    Kotaku published some light articles about it and there's plenty more indepth ones around the web if one is eager to find more about it:

    - http://kotaku.com/why-video-games-ar...ten-1795473828

    - http://kotaku.com/five-things-i-didn...nti-1687510871

    Kickstarter "release dates" and "intentions" are just estimates given to get the ball rolling. The basic push to start the journey, the path is allways uncertain even with most cautius planning.

    As much as game studios have tried to follow formulas to minimize delays, when developing ambitious games is allways at a high risk. That's why some games can even get canceled after years of development. It's a volatile and unpredictable path the search for "fun" even with tried formula, and much more when making games that push technological boundaries.

    Every game is bound to change and most certainly gets delayed as the game scope increases and design decisions are redone for whatever reason.

    The change from "100 systems planned at launch" to a smaller, but much more detailed aproachwas clarified years ago by Chris Roberts in a 10FTC back in 2015:
    Just to let you know, when it says 100 complete star systems, we don’t mean we’re delivering 100 complete star systems tomorrow or all in one day because you know, we got to a bunch of our star systems in our stretch goals, and also some of these star systems are to be explored and found
    . So, our focus is to get the core UEE space and the surrounding systems. The ones that you see will be on the star map, which we’ll be revealing and sharing on the web next month, you’ll have the first couple of key systems where you’ll be able to adventure in, in more detail on this star map and then the other ones will be more high level, and then as we get into them, we’ll build them up. But, that’s the plan is to start with one system and then move our way out. We’re sort of laying the groundwork for that. So that’s our plan, that’s how we’ll roll them out, but not committing to specific dates though cause I’ve learned that issue.
    Question@14m10s<input class="spoiler... </div></div>

    Most engaged backers that have followed Star Citizen development closely already knew that and understand it perfectly, that's why the "community" has no problems with this "announcement" in the GameStar Article or see it as a "downgrade" to the game they pledged for.

    Originally Posted by govny View Post (Source)
    you presume too mutch.
    How can you do the tansition with a speed of 300 m/s?
    you will need several minutes even to go from low orbit to atmosphere. You will have the same problem Frontier had to face for planetary landing.
    Ever tried to reach the surphace of a planet from orbit in elite using the normal speed?
    Good luck.
    Ship's can travel way faster than 300m/s but the right answer is Quantum Travel which was already demoed extensively by CIG, I linked a gif some posts before and add it here again as an example:



    Originally Posted by VidarSnipes View Post (Source)
    You're making one big assumption, so let me dispel it for you: just because they are making ten times fewer systems than promised doesn't mean they will be better and more fleshed out than if all of them were released at once.
    There's an equal, or if you take into account CIG's glacial development pace, far bigger probability that all those systems will be barren and devoid of content.
    Ofc it means, the design changed from a Freelancer type of aproach (cutscene landings and a planet = small cosntricted location) to fully fledged planetoids with seamless traveling from space to ground with detailed scenerie to explore and interact (as demoed in gamescom and citizencom).

    CIG development is far from glacial imo. They already have in place game mechanics that are extremely hard to do. Namely the 64bit large maps that allow for the seamless maps and traveling without loading screens, physics grids to allow for players to walk inside and around (eva) their ships seamlessly making it possible for engaging gameplay like ship boarding or multicrew group play. Detailed First Person Mode with clothing weapons etc. These are things that are normaly not done by other games because of how hard they are to do technicaly, they require a lot of time and money to pull it off and Star Citizen as got that done already.

    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    You underline the fundamental problem around Star Citizen with that statement.

    ATVs are not facts and they dont represent reality
    ATV's is CIG way to share it's game development progress. Like all game development things are bound to change. Anyway it servers a great porpose in giving visibility to the game with some videos reaching the 200k views. No bad at all.
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    And making this list also raises the question what exactly you are talking about. 3.0 or the end product of Star Citizen which is for all we know decades away? Because 3.0 will only have moons, no planets, there certainly will be no wildlife and I dont think cities have been announced for 3.0 either. So I m a little confused what we are actually discussing when reading your post. Anyway, your claims stand......awaiting clarification or backpaddling.
    3 moons (some with atmosphere and fauna- some vegetation has been seen in clips) plus the big asteroid (Nyx) with the underground pirate base city called Levsky (demoed in gamescom 2016 and shown in the 3.0 build that Gamestar played.

    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    I also dont fail to notice that GameStar is unable to verify nor confirm any of the currently discussed problems surrounding Star Citizen. They claim to have played 3.0 themselves. They did NOT (with what I was able to read) see a seamless planetary landing with their own eyes at least they dont state that part particulary. Instead they put in vague descriptions of "how awesome it is to see a planet from space then walk on it minutes later"....no seamless landing mentioned. They couple this with the devs claim that "every planetary landing is seamless with no loading screen" but again....this isnt what THEY saw or experienced with their own eyes while playing 3.0.
    They actually did. It's right there mentioned in the first part of the article:

    Demo, with some in-depth look at systems (AI, Planets...)

    • Gamestar visited Foundry 42 Frankfurt to play a preview of Alpha 3.0. In the beginning text, the author asks the question, why F42 my have delayed Squadron 42. More about that later.
    • The Demo starts at GrimHex. (this is a space station in outter space*) The Player wakes up and uses the new mobi-glass to equip himself with some clothes.
    • They walk outside to the landing pads where a Gladius waits
    • They get introduced to the new use-System and item 2.0, where they can control many things more detailed (entering the ship, HUDS...)
    • With item 2.0 CIG can make every object in the world interactive by giving it properties.
    • With the new Star Map via the mobi-glass, they now can fly to POIs instead of the old marker on the hud.
    • Todd Pappy on the answer after the Strechtgoal Levski: "When C.R. makes a stretch goal, that means it has to be in the game in the given time. Often it depends on how important it is for C.R. Let's say, it's very important for him. The NPC Miles Eckhart, too."
    • Via the Star Map they jump to the edge of the atmosphere of Delamar and are then flying down manual. During the atmospheric entry, flames start appearing around the hull. This depends on your speed and the size of your ship.
    • A new flight control system shows the way to a landing pad on the highly detailed Levski landing zone, where are now also garages, where you can get your ground vehicles.

    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    But, there isn't any of that in Star Citizen.
    There really is, the PU map is huge and checking out all the ship's, quests, space stations, derelic ships, ship wrecks, com'arrays, refuel stations, secret probes, asteroid fields, easter eggs will take some considerable time. So much that I doubt anyone here as seen them all.

    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    You, personally, get lost in your ships? Or did you just add that because it otherwise sounds a bit... drab?
    Well, he just said you can get lost exploring the rooms of your ship, so maybe we're just having different expectations.
    Well not in my ship's because they are small, but in Star Citizen you can walk in other people ship's so you get to enter into unfamiliar vehicles.

    Have you seen the Starfarer ship? Everyone gets lost in that ship at least once. Even a Catterpillar or a Retaliator can get confusing to walk around.

    I'll leave a video bellow for those who don't know the ship:


    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    You seem to like to cram fluff words into your statement without regards for what it actually stands. Getting in and out of vehicles seamlessly....why is that such an accomplishment or out of the ordinary you have to use that term? Games allow you to get in and out of vehicles without a loading screen for decades now.
    It is special because of how the Ships are modeled inside and out, allowing for players to walk inside and around them, engage in fps, use turrets etc. The seamlessly in and out of the ships is allowed by the physics grid tech which normaly doesn't exist in other games, making the vehicles moving maps where gamers can interact. (see vid above)

    Originally Posted by dayrth View Post (Source)
    But that's not a game, that's a map. A very pretty one that you can wander round, but no game to play. I'll quote myself from earlier:
    That's a huge derelict ship in a huge map with millions of km's. In that derelict ship you can loot stuff that earns you credits that you can then use to repair/refuel your ship, buy armour, weapons or stylish civil/bandit clothings. Some of them are tied to quest chains also. Exploring them is a lot of fun and immersive experience.

  15. #1755
    Originally Posted by JohnMice View Post (Source)

    The change from "100 systems planned at launch" to a smaller, but much more detailed aproachwas clarified years ago by Chris Roberts in a 10FTC back in 2015:
    Just to let you know, when it says 100 complete star systems, we don’t mean we’re delivering 100 complete star systems tomorrow or all in one day because you know, we got to a bunch of our star systems in our stretch goals, and also some of these star systems are to be explored and found
    So the $6m stretch goal stating "Star Citizen will launch with 100 star systems" has been clarified as "Star citizen won't launch with 100 systems".

    Ok.

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