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Thread: Star Citizen Thread v6

  1. #7306
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    So SC should have been complete in a week? They've completed countless tasks in their sprints.
    No, he doesnt say that. You know it, he knows it, we all know it. Stop being daft.

    A year ago 3.0 was 'a couple of weeks out'. fast-forward one year and 3.0 is 'a couple of weeks out', with a couple of features removed. That means development has gone backwards in one year. No honest person can call that good. No normal business accepts it. Yes, development is unpredictable. I work on the crossroads between AI and biological psychology. Things are state of the art, and unpredictable. Sometimes my ETAs are off, and when I think I need two weeks I need three. Sometimes even four, or five, or six. But as often I get things done sooner than expected. On average, my ETAs are solid, and projects move forward on the general timeline presented. As I am expected to. Unpredictability leads to a loss in accuracy of ETAs. But the average over many ETAs should still be solid. CIGs estimates have consistently been too positive, so its not a case of 'its unpredictable' but an issue with bias. That simply means upper management is either unable or unwilling to make proper estimations which is a bad sign.

    Honestly, when CR said it would be a couple of weeks last year. Do you think he was off by about a 1000% because he was incompetent? I doubt it. He knew it wasnt ready, would never be even remotely ready, but simply lied to keep the sales going. In janurary he announced they almost had a plan ready for 3.0. Which means that when he made his earlier announcement he knew there wasnt a plan yet but still openly said they were hoping to release 3.0 before even finishing the planning stage.

    Any sane person looks at that and says:"SCrew you CR. SCrew you."

    Beyond that I'll grab my crystal ball: they will release something called 3.0. It wont have the features promised for 3.0. It will be accompanied by more ship sales. The ship sale infrastructure will work fine. 3.0 will be a buggy mess. CR will say not to worry, because the next patch will be the next Jesus Patch. The cycle continues. You will drop off disappointed. One year from now the new BlackSpaceCowboy shows up here and says we are all haters. He is open minded, willing to give CIG a chance. 4.0 will definitely prove if SC is a scam or not. And so the cycle continues.

  2. #7307
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    Yes but when I mean 'fundamental' I mean the physics engine is so broken that players keep flying through ship hulls
    Yiykes. I haven't played it a year. More than a year. When was the last time you played?

  3. #7308
    Last night and that happened to me 4 times.
    Not to mention that I have seen it in various videos/streams also.

    EDIT: Does anyone have a video recapping GC17?

  4. #7309
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    Last night and that happened to me 4 times.
    Not to mention that I have seen it in various videos/streams also.

    EDIT: Does anyone have a video recapping GC17?
    Here you go, it will not disappoint

  5. #7310
    For the full effect you need to close the page half-way through and reopen it

  6. #7311
    Kerrash you have to watch the whole thing, it's on youtube. It takes them 45 mins to get to their ship and take off, then it crashes and they have to do it over from the start (as it's all triggered scripts)

    CR is pretending to be a director and the 'players' are reading lines to each other.

    It's a janky mess, all of it. Even the space buggy has no physics and the big reveal of a huge spaceship has it clipping through the ground before the space buggy clips through the ramp and its wheels fall off.

    It's cringe comedy at its finest and an absolute crime for the money they've taken.

    They were also keen to show us why there's no SQ42 - the mocap doesn't work in the environments so the mocap commandos clip through everything, literally everything.

    As others have said it's gone backwards since the 2016 demo of the exact same thing.

  7. #7312
    Ah, the old 'is it really that bad, I haven't played in more than a year'

    Second time I've read that today.

  8. #7313
    Yeah I caught some of it when I came back from vacation, re-watching the whole thing now.

    I do like the "Restarting the servers every 15 minutes to reset the state"; that is developer speak for "We have so many dangling pointers that memory is leaking like a sponge"

  9. #7314
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    Honestly, I don't feel it is. I have seen more impressive tech demos from 1 man indie teams.
    Yeah, it's not great, but most initial games are not actually. The technical limitations of the outdated 2011 engine show up in every corner and there is only so much you can achieve under incompetent management. But I think it's nothing out of ordinary considering the circumstances.

    (There is another misconception beside the high budget fallacy, the one that high head counts automatically make products better. And this applies to every industry, not only video games.)

    Nobody should be surprised what they get out of this. When I backed Squadron 42 I didn't expect an AAA master piece with motion capured A list Hollywood actors, Face over IP and all that BS. I expected a some space simcade with wacky physics and a cheesy 90s excuse plot to pew pew through three dozens of missions in 2014. (No show, refund.)

    Only media outlets like Gamestar get completely fooled by Chris Roberts and really believe there is ever a borderline possibility of a MMO on par with Elite Dangerous or Eve Online coming out of this. I don't see that happening.

  10. #7315
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Isn't the live demo evidence?
    Uhm no, because we have no evidence that whatever they showed actually exists and is ready to be implemented. If whatever they showed us in the life demo was actually there they could put it on the PU at any given moment. But they dont....worse...they remain absolutely silent as to when we can expect it. Is there a reason why they dont transfer whatever they have to the PU? Are they polishing? Adding more content? Fixing bugs?

    Saying they are polishing whatever they have THAT is speculating. Fact is we have the same old same old PU as before the presentation. I take the life presentation exactly as what it was. A scripted mission walk-through in a tightly controlled environment. I have no idea nor evidence that what they showed exists or is possible until I get the chance to try it out myself.

    Taking what you see on a promo video as fact and evidence leads exactly to the same result as No Mans Sky. You remember what the issue was yes?

    What would be sufficient evidence for you?
    The 3.0 we observed in the Gamescom presentation on the PU. Simple. That was mentioned quite a few times. Either you have half the posters here on ignore or you simply dont read what people write.

    I thought it was a scam too until I heard about 3.0 features. I find it hard to believe that after releasing 1.0, 2.0, 2.6 etc, that 3.0 won't happen. If 3.0 is released won't that be the evidence you seek?
    I find that interesting. So you thought it was a scam too based on your own observations and conclusions. Then you read whats supposed to be in 3.0, mind you its just a small piece of text and words. No physical indication nor proof and suddenly all your worries and doubts you discovered for yourself are gone? Thats the same as if Chris Roberts said Star Citizen is the best game ever already. It must be true because he said so right? Mind you a lot of ultras seem to believe exactly that despite all the observations pointing to the contrary.

    We do have a lot of software developers on this forum. Project managers as well. I dont know this for a fact because I dont know these people in real life and could confirm their identity. So we fall back to the quality of their posts. If you are new to the discussion and try to bring up points its important that whatever you state checks out either factual or logically. If you show an understanding of the technical or logistical difficulties involved people will eventually come to regard you as proficient in the topic. Simply saying "I am a developer myself I know how its done" simply doesnt work when whatever you write demonstrates that you are ignorant to the problems involved. It wont convince anybody of your view for sure. Well these people who have shown an understanding of the topic involved have shared their experience with the rest of us often providing basic examples of how successful development projects progress and develop. The pinpointed difficulties and inconsistencies have only enhanced the worries about the game. The utter lack of results is also a telling sign. We are talking about "red flags" and when looking at Star Citizen it looks like chinas birthday.

    Chris Roberts has started out with a really big reserve in trust. People granted him the competence and capabilities to do whatever he stated he would. Over the last 6 years he has eroded that reservoir himself due to his actions and overall results. Maybe you are new to the whole thing and havent bothered to check CiGs first few years but it all looked very different in the early stages. The continual inability to deliver basic concepts and promises in any acceptable timeframe as well as being outed as lying or misleading people with his statements results in the image he now holds. Revered by some select few we dare to call "cultists" contrary to a majority of people whos not so sure he can do what he claims. I dont know for sure if hes running a scam. But it feels like one to me and as he forfeited any trust I could direct at him I have no reason to believe a single word he speaks without proof.

    Originally Posted by Cobra1984 View Post (Source)
    And that's a game developer saying that, so...
    Now now, hes just a "developer" he never claimed to develop games. Maybe hes developing shoes? That would explain his recent posts on game development


    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    What do you mean? I saw the live demo. They had some glitches but what we saw doesn't exist in any other game.
    It also doesnt exist in Star Citizen. Or can you access whatever you saw yourself in the PU? This seems to be a circle you are unable to get out of yourself. If you visit a stage magicians show and see him life on stage teleporting from a locked box to the audience do you believe that he has teleportation powers? If we apply your SC reasoning then you do...

    So SC should have been complete in a week? They've completed countless tasks in their sprints.
    So they say but we dont have any evidence for these claims. Its simply words at the moment without any proof in the physical world. I believe them when they claim to be in eternal crunch (is that what you mean by "sprint"?) only there is no physical result for all that lard work to be had. And if they are crunching to get these propaganda videos out then all I can say is they really should focus on the game instead. The game needs all the attention it can get.

    Now your reputation and credibility depend on SC failing. What's the point of taking such a position? I hope you're wrong.
    I doubt very much that he is trying to raise his credibility or reputation when he voices his opinion. He is not betting on Star Citizens failure only voicing his current opinion on the matter. You are definately making all this bigger then it has to be. You know, I m sure he hopes himself he is wrong. I hope he d be wrong BUT our observations indicate that the chance for success for Star Citizen are so slim by now that it equals a miracle if they manage to release whatever people envision based on the advertising these guys have made for the last few years.

    Again, I care more about Squadron 42, which I see as an achievable goal, than I do about the SC MMO.
    Ah yes, the part of the game which we have seen even less about then the MMO part. Its so well hidden from the financially invested backers in this "most open development ever" that it could as well be a myth. The only thing we know about it is that the cutscenes look horrible based on the Morrow tour, the only piece of evidence we have about it and its not really telling about the quality of SQ42 itself. SQ42 and SC PU are supposed to share a lot if not all mechanics and assets according to CiG. I can believe that because it sounds plausible. That means that watching the SC PU gives you a good idea about the status of SQ42. Its simple logic.

    The PU doesnt showcase any integrated Mocap animations yet. SQ42 is supposed to be chock full of them. But we dont know if it looks good or is integrated well because again....lack of anything SQ42 related. Its supposed to have a grand story campaign coming from the same man who handpicked the last Gamescom 2017 mission. Did that mission really fascinate or impress you as expertly written and presented?. What else do we know? You ll be a navy space fighter pilot in the single player campaign. So you ll fly ships. Which ones we dont know but they will follow the same flight model which exists on the PU. So according to that observation you will move your cursor over targets and press fire until they are destroyed. Because thats what you do in the PU. I consider it a challenge to complete a single mission when there is a high chance at pretty much everything to bug you out, kill you, evac you out of the ship or any other reason we can currently see on the PU.

    Its really simple. The PU shows the potential CiG has managed to achieve in the last 6 years. Its pityfull and really sad to see what this man has managed to do with the 160 million dollars provided to him. So right now Star Citizen is really bad and buggy. And thats about the stuff we know about. We know next to nothing about SQ42 only that both games are based on the same foundation which means that SQ42 is in a similar state as the PU aka sad and pityfull.

    I had the luck to meet a few people a short time ago who never heard about Star Citizen before but liked the idea and purchased a basic package in order to get access and support the game. We met a few times over 2 weeks and stayed in touch via chat and email. Their very first impression was good. They certainly recognized the potential this title has. The ability to move your avatar and interact with almost everything was giving them great ideas whats possible in the released game. A couple of days later when they exhausted the available content and experienced a good amount of bugs and glitches they instead moved their attention to the development process. They were a little shocked to learn that development started in 2012, probably 2011 and has accumulated roughly 160 million dollars until now. That was the first damper on their excitement. I had them try their legs on their own up to this point then came out and outed myself as a skeptic to this project. We had 2 BBQ come-togethers where we talked for hours on end. All of them were adults, 2 of em had family so maybe thats a reason why talking to them was possible in the first place. We were tossing concepts and ideas around and compared them to the available PU. One of them made this comment

    "so the available game is pure trash and the guy responsible for this claims that there are all kinds of improvements and content in a quality never before seen, only that nobody has access to these until they are ready and until then we have to take his word for it......"

    Which hits the nail right on the head I d say. I have them the 2 links for the 2016 and 2017 Gamescom presentation and also mentioned the 2015 Pupil to Planet video. That was last sunday. Its 3 of these guys and 2 of them have since go for a refund while the third is waiting a little more (he was watching the ATVs no doubt) ^^

    We started out with different opinions and still the discussions never became heated or aggressive. I guess at worst we would ve agreed to disagree and move to different topics and drop the subject. I certainly wasnt out to convince them of SC being a scam. I merely provided some sites to check on for more informations. It was interesting for me to see what opinions they would form....kind of a social experiment if you will. I am not disappointed with the result It probably helps that these are grown man who have responsibilities and are "mature" in their behavior. Its not the norm among SC fans for sure.

  11. #7316

  12. #7317
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Isn't the live demo evidence?
    Unfortunately not. We have been showered with 'live demos' since 2013 or so, and most of it has never manifested into actual stuff in the PU. Partly because they were just small self-contained segments that broke when integrated, or they were heavily scripted/on-rails to the point of not being an actual live demo. As you say normally live demos are what you see at the end. With CIG live demos are usually 'indications of future intent'.

  13. #7318
    Originally Posted by VidarSnipes View Post (Source)
    Whoa! That's a sight to behold! Must be worth a full fidel...

  14. #7319
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    No, he doesnt say that. You know it, he knows it, we all know it. Stop being daft.
    Maybe I am "daft." Here is what he said:

    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    If someone struggles with getting something working *for a week* in my project, we call it a day and hand it over to different person. CIG had 6 years. No show.
    I'm daft. Explain to me the relevance of someone in his project taking longer than a week on a task. I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Big budget games take years to develop. SC is a huge project.

    I'm not some huge SC fan. I paid $60 a year ago. If they don't deliver something reasonable in 3.0 then I'll return to believing it's a scam. For some reason you keep arguing with me as if I'm convinced that SC will deliver and be the greatest game ever. I'm not convinced. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that. I thought it was a fraud a few months ago.The promise of 3.0 has given me hope that maybe they'll deliver and it's not a fraud.

    Why are you so invested in squashing the bit of hope I have that I'll eventually get the space game I want? I don't get it.

    I don't see why you're expending so much energy trying to convince me that they won't deliver on 3.0. Whether I agree or disagree with you it won't change what will eventually and inevitably happen.

  15. #7320
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    Isn't the live demo evidence?
    Yes it was evidence that CIG have nothing, and 3.0 does not really work. And takes heavy scripting just to show anything at all. Which ended up being not much of anything.

    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    I'm a developer. We only do live demos late in development. The hardest part is just getting something working. Polishing it and adding content is much smoother process.
    You are assuming that they actually had a real demo, and not something just built for the show. It was very clear that what CIG showed was just created for that scripted sequence and there was nothing else.

    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    What would be sufficient evidence for you?
    Releasing 3.0 with the original stated features.
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    I thought it was a scam too until I heard about 3.0 features. I find it hard to believe that after releasing 1.0, 2.0, 2.6 etc, that 3.0 won't happen. If 3.0 is released won't that be the evidence you seek?
    Except they have dropped most of the features that were supposed to be in 3.0, just like they did for 2.0, 1.0, AC, and everything else they say. CIG have proven just how cheap words are.

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