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Thread: Star Citizen Thread v6

  1. #7381
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    Exactly. Change the definition enough and everything becomes grinding.

    Keep breathing in order to not die....grinding.
    Agree with both of you (see my signature).

    Pong, PacMac, Solitare, ... all of them are essentially grinding. 1024, Threes, Sudoku, also all grinding in their own way. Everything in life and games will have forms of repetition. Actually, most games that are successful have some grinding qualities to them. Even PvP shooting games are grinding. I feel it's quite repetitive just to run around and shoot other players in a small area in Halo. Hence, I'm not a big fan of PvP because it's an ultimate grinding situation. Pew, pew, pew, pew pew.... Had to stop because trigger finger started to get numb.

    And you're absolute right that in ED that you can choose how much you grind and what kind. You can achieve your goals different ways, and it only becomes and feels like grinding when you want to get there faster than normal. Quince is a grind, because that's what it is, but not on is forced to use that method or force themselves to achieve the top rank in a week. It's a choice.

    One player's grind is another player's game.


  2. #7382
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    Now that is truly disgusting.
    Tribalism. Tribalism everywhere...

  3. #7383
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    Do a couple of searches for "890 jump orgs" and your lulzbucket will love you forever.
    Keep them lulzbuckets coming!!!!



    Bug off, I'm full.......

    Hegh Daq maj jaghpu

  4. #7384
    just reminder to more religious backers, that the refunds should not be have no effect in star citizen delivery.
    after all star citizen was fully funded with 60 million and they have 100 million extra to that.

    a couple millions on refunds wont hurt them or hamper their ability to deliver comedy.

    Theres practically no need to burn bridges over refunds.
    In fact that might be counter-productive if you want em to invest back in the game

  5. #7385
    Rumour I heard is that the $45K refund was paid for in second hand coffee machines.
    I didn't pledge enough to get a signature.

  6. #7386
    Originally Posted by Han Zulu View Post (Source)
    Agree with both of you (see my signature).

    Pong, PacMac, Solitare, ... all of them are essentially grinding. 1024, Threes, Sudoku, also all grinding in their own way. Everything in life and games will have forms of repetition. Actually, most games that are successful have some grinding qualities to them. Even PvP shooting games are grinding. I feel it's quite repetitive just to run around and shoot other players in a small area in Halo. Hence, I'm not a big fan of PvP because it's an ultimate grinding situation. Pew, pew, pew, pew pew.... Had to stop because trigger finger started to get numb.

    And you're absolute right that in ED that you can choose how much you grind and what kind. You can achieve your goals different ways, and it only becomes and feels like grinding when you want to get there faster than normal. Quince is a grind, because that's what it is, but not on is forced to use that method or force themselves to achieve the top rank in a week. It's a choice.
    It's not the repetition that makes it a grind, it's whether you find that repetition boring. Every single game ever made is full of repetition, life is full of repetition, it's how it is presented is what is important though. So in ED, I only do stuff I enjoy and find fun. I mix it up as much as possible, and it doesn't become a grind for me.

  7. #7387
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    a professional gaming company forming an org intending to make money out of the venture
    I now understand alle the "org" invitation email spam which happened since they added that feature.

    Originally Posted by Cobra1984 View Post (Source)
    Isn't it. This is what the remaining backers do to refunders over on the SC subreddit. There are posts on there now talking about banning refunders from following the project or rejoining for 5 years - as if that was even possible or remotely desirable.
    As if Reddit has any decision power over that.
    English is not my native language, please excuse possible misunderstanding.

  8. #7388
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    I said if it failed. Let's say they release a mess that doesn't satisfy the terms of the funding. Backers can sue to take ownership of the code.

    I've never heard of such a case so I'm not saying it's likely. It would be great if the community could use the assets in a series of indie type games.



    Ship models, voice acting and maybe mocap?
    I really like your passion for this game and I am sure that you are true space sim-fanatic you just need to be a bit more realistic about all this mess......So lets said hypothetically IF somehow backers get their hands on CIG game code (wich is loong and painful procedure)that is still ain´t going to solve so many obstacles that CIG programmers could not solve it for all those years,so the best case scenario is still going to be game in the making with harsh networking that can´t handle a lot of players per instance with broken FM and a ton of bugs&errors.....that just don´t sound like a good foundation and even if ppl. could be creative and possibly FIX many things there is simply no way that certain obstacles could be solved /ever/....in short the game that Croberts preach about ain´t gonna happened with or without him in charge....don´t get me wrong not saying that game maybe in some other shape could not be possible but the question is how many of us(backers/gamers) are willing to play just another regular/mediocre space game?

  9. #7389
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    I keep an eye on the funding chart.

    I've not seen a negative value on any of the hourly values after that 45k refund...

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

    There hasn't been an hour recently where CIG pulled in over 45k.

    Is this evidence then that the tracker is presenting false information?
    I do not know if it is false. But it is clear based on this incident and many other worrying signs that the tracker only shows a partial reality based on what CIG wants us to see.

    What are "Citizens"? Do they include multiple accounts by the same individual? Do they include web portal users even if they have not pledged and just browse the forum or signed in just for the "free fly weekends"? Does the fund tracker include refunds, loans, other non pledge investments etc, tax credits? Does it spread out / pro rata the financing in any way? etc.

    The fact none of those CIG trackers has been explicitely defined by CIG and/or verified by any independant 3rd party is also an additional element to consider those trackers with a big bucket of salt.

    The most transparent development ever.

  10. #7390
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    It's not the repetition that makes it a grind, it's whether you find that repetition boring. Every single game ever made is full of repetition, life is full of repetition, it's how it is presented is what is important though. So in ED, I only do stuff I enjoy and find fun. I mix it up as much as possible, and it doesn't become a grind for me.
    Exactly this. I was talking with a friend who has never enjoyed ED because he doesn't (Wait for it) especially enjoy flying the ships. Where as I still get immense amount of dopamine from the simple act of moving around the Galaxy

  11. #7391
    Originally Posted by Viajero View Post (Source)
    I do not know if it is false. But it is clear based on this incident and many other worrying signs that the tracker only shows a partial reality based on what CIG wants us to see. The fact none of those CIG trackers has been explicitely defined by CIG (what are "Citizens"? Do they include multiple accounts by the same individual? Do they include web portal users even if they have not pledged and just browse the forum? Does the fund tracker include refunds, loans, other non pledge investments etc, tax credits? Does it spread out / pro rata the financing in any way? etc) and/or verified by any independant 3rd party is also an additional element to consider those trackers with a big bucket of salt.

    The most transparent development ever.
    The simplest explanation for the tracker is that it's tied to their sales backend (i.e. when a sale is made it's added to the tracker). The refund process is manual so doesn't feed back unless someone were to update the tracker, and I don't think this happens. The tracker does not take into account revenue that CIG get from outside the store page (e.g. loans) so while it's a good gauge for sales, it's a poor gauge for overall funding.

    I find it unlikely that refunds would exceed $1m even with the notably large ones, so I doubt CIG would worry too much about them -- not unless they're really low on cash anyway.
    confusion now hath made his masterpiece

  12. #7392
    Originally Posted by BlackSpaceCowboy View Post (Source)
    It's just that us space flight sim fans are desperate for a proper modern successor to Wing Commander or even Freespace. The genre has been totally ignored for so many years. Yet we finally have the tech to build a great space game.

    I grew up watching Buck Rogers and Battle Star Galactica.
    Tech and people. Both which FD has. They just do it.
    Peteris Krisjanis
    Call sign: Eagleboy | Will play: All Online | Federation | Trader and Explorer, with a little of everything else
    Please support call for ED Linux port https://www.change.org/p/frontier-de...-linux-desktop

  13. #7393
    Originally Posted by Viajero View Post (Source)
    I do not know if it is false. But it is clear based on this incident and many other worrying signs that the tracker only shows a partial reality based on what CIG wants us to see.

    What are "Citizens"? Do they include multiple accounts by the same individual? Do they include web portal users even if they have not pledged and just browse the forum or signed in just for the "free fly weekends"? Does the fund tracker include refunds, loans, other non pledge investments etc, tax credits? Does it spread out / pro rata the financing in any way? etc.

    The fact none of those CIG trackers has been explicitely defined by CIG and/or verified by any independant 3rd party is also an additional element to consider those trackers with a big bucket of salt.

    The most transparent development ever.
    The citizen tracker, at least, has been given some explanation by the company who actually made it (it was probably a slip-up because they were feeling chatty and community-focised contrary to CIG's mode of operation). It basically counts anyone and everyone who has ever made an RSI account for any reason whatsoever. Free-fly weekends, forum lurkers, promotional accounts, give-aways, paying, active or non-active, visiting or gone forever — they all count.

    At the time, the tracker claimed some 1.1 million “citizens” and the developer let slip that only about half of those were accounts that had actually paid anything — the number of actual individual backers would obviously be lower still.

    I'll see if I can track down the post, but I don't even remember where it was any more — chances are that it was on the old RSI forums, in which case the odds of it being “accidentally lost” are depressingly high.

  14. #7394
    Originally Posted by xyphic View Post (Source)
    ... The tracker does not take into account revenue that CIG get from outside the store page (e.g. loans) so while it's a good gauge for sales, it's a poor gauge for overall funding.
    We do not really know that, do we? We dont even know if some of the tracker figures are just completely made up or proxies / pro rata for that potential additional non pledge based funding (if any).

    Also, loans are not revenue since they need to be paid back with interest.

    If loan funds were to be included in that tracker in any way it would indeed be a very damning and misleading thing to do. Direct investments in the tracker would also be to an extent quite misleading since the game has been sold as free from investor interference and conditions. At the very least CIG would need to be transparent with the community about any direct investments and their conditions before accepting them, nevermind before adding them to the tracker.

    I suspect a big component of any potential sales comes from the perception and confidence by willing backers that the funding tracker is an honest reflection of what other fellow backers contribute, nothing else.

  15. #7395
    All of the funding is a loan until the finished product ist delivered. It's not thing more than $160 million of debt.
    English is not my native language, please excuse possible misunderstanding.

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