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Thread: non-consensual PvP at ruin site

  1. #256
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Ganking and griefing without communications is still a form of in-game abuse... you missed/ignored the "including but not limited to" part.

    Text/Voice comms are not the only things covered by 7.3.1... general behaviour and conduct is covered as well (which you also seem to have missed/ignored).

    TL;DR Lack of verbal/textual insults does not let CMDRs get off with overly aggressive behaviours such as ganking and griefing.
    Your interpretation is clearly not shared by FD so perhaps stop trying to push it. Don't believe me? Go ahead and try to report someone to see what happens.

  2. #257
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Your interpretation is clearly not shared by FD so perhaps stop trying to push it. Don't believe me? Go ahead and try to report someone to see what happens.
    https://youtu.be/iPPjIxXSvt0
    Don't need to... I am not foolish enough to put myself in the position of being an unwilling target for bored on-line bullies (my general opinion of Gankers and Griefers)... I specifically avoid Open because of such people and FD recognise there are people who avoid Open for comparable reasons and that seems to be one of the main reasons they are considering automated PvP moderation measures. Some people may find such measures adequate, and FD may achieve their goals of making the Open more acceptable to a far wider audience. Personally, I am too jaded and would need to see actual proof of it working in practice before I would trust any such measures to be adequate and fit for purpose.

  3. #258
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Don't need to... I am not foolish enough to put myself in the position of being an unwilling target for bored on-line bullies (my general opinion of Gankers and Griefers)... I specifically avoid Open because of such people and FD recognise there are people who avoid Open for comparable reasons and that seems to be one of the main reasons they are considering automated PvP moderation measures. Some people may find such measures adequate, and FD may achieve their goals of making the Open more acceptable to a far wider audience. Personally, I am too jaded and would need to see actual proof of it working in practice before I would trust any such measures to be adequate and fit for purpose.
    You're interpretations are all off. They're talking about a Karma system. That's a first sweep effort at a widely requested C&P system. This is near universally desired by the player community, pvp and pve focussed players alike.
    As for "bullies" etc... those are your personal value judgements. They are also not the reason FD created solo/group modes. Stating that is just revisionist fantasy.
    Not even quite sure why you are commenting on something you are so clearly clueless about, being as you avoid it so thoroughly.

  4. #259
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    ....
    Hardly, you talk about revisionist fantasy? I think the Pvping community in ED is largely guilty of that. Am I surprised? Far from it, as for the "Karma system" the concept discussion was largely started because of certain PvP behaviours... PvEers may welcome it because such a system may address certain toxic PvP behaviours and like wise from some of the more moderate PvPers... There are plenty of very vocal PvPers on these forums that have been vehemently against anything like the proposed Karma system. By my estimate, the PvP community reception regarding the Karma system has been mostly negative.

  5. #260
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Hardly, you talk about revisionist fantasy? I think the Pvping community in ED is largely guilty of that. Am I surprised? Far from it, as for the "Karma system" the concept discussion was largely started because of certain PvP behaviours... PvEers may welcome it because such a system may address certain toxic PvP behaviours and like wise from some of the more moderate PvPers... There are plenty of very vocal PvPers on these forums that have been vehemently against anything like the proposed Karma system. By my estimate, the PvP community reception regarding the Karma system has been mostly negative.
    Well, I'm a part of the rare community that does both pvp and pve and I talk a lot to these guys on Discord. A propper C&P system is near universally desired. Where I take issue with your comments is in the value judgements. referring to PVPers griefers and "bored bullies" is name calling and technically against forum rules (though I think someone would have to report you to get a mod intervention and I don't see the need to do that). You may not like how some choose to play the game, but that doesn't invalidate their play style and to say FD doesn't endorse it is a bit silly. They can say what they like. So long as they make things like the Gromm Fsd reboot missiles and have whole balance passes purely with pvp in mind, I'd say that's a pretty clear endorsement through action.
    Frankly, those issues are on FD, not the different player groups. I hope they come to implement a good, in game C&P system as well as give the engineers another balance pass as pve builds are currently so different (and inferior) to pvp ones.
    That said, I play in Open exclusively and 2/3 of my gameplay at least is neither pvp nor in pvp ships. I manage to escape bright caught with my pants down against player killers most of the time. That's because my non combat builds are designed for evasion and I have practiced at it.
    Take this Beta as an example. The pve only crowd getting smashed (often by yours truly) are making some very basic errors and making easy targets of themselves. When you land, it's imperative to send the mothership back out again and turn off the headlights on the SRVs! Keep an eye out on scanners! Be aware of your surroundings! These are some of the basic things anyone in Open should know. Being able to get through hostile players and still achieve your goals is part of the fun and risk of Open. For those who don't like that, there is solo or group available at the touch of a button.

  6. #261
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    referring to PVPers griefers and "bored bullies"
    Errmm... Gankers and Griefers are the "bored bullies", PvPers come in many shapes and sizes and not all of them fall into the ganker/griefer categories. This I have made VERY clear several times in this thread and many others, any implications otherwise is largely trolling (whether intentional or not).

  7. #262
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Errmm... Gankers and Griefers are the "bored bullies", PvPers come in many shapes and sizes and not all of them fall into the ganker/griefer categories. This I have made VERY clear several times in this thread and many others, any implications otherwise is largely trolling (whether intentional or not).
    Just stop with the name calling, dude. Address the topic.

  8. #263
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Just stop with the name calling, dude. Address the topic.
    I have several times, and yet some seem to not accept certain fundamental truths and insist on trying to accuse me of name calling rather than come up with a reasonable counter point. It is the same tired old arguments every-time similar discussions arise...

    Open mode is not some kind of mode explicitly intended to allow certain kinds of toxic PvP game play, and where the Beta is/was concerned it is purely a test environment that is/was intended to allow for certain kinds of load and stress testing. The quick death nature of griefing and ganking class behaviours run generally counter to that overall concept and intent (it does not require a degree to understand that). Where load and stress testing is concerned you do want as many people as possible operating in the same instance, griefing/ganking inherently inhibits that goal.

  9. #264
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    I have several times, and yet some seem to not accept certain fundamental truths and insist on trying to accuse me of name calling rather than come up with a reasonable counter point. It is the same tired old arguments every-time similar discussions arise...

    Open mode is not some kind of mode explicitly intended to allow certain kinds of toxic PvP game play, and where the Beta is/was concerned it is purely a test environment that is/was intended to allow for certain kinds of load and stress testing. The quick death nature of griefing and ganking class behaviours run generally counter to that overall concept and intent (it does not require a degree to understand that). Where load and stress testing is concerned you do want as many people as possible operating in the same instance, griefing/ganking inherently inhibits that goal.
    Open mode is the Wild. We all share that space according to the rules of the game. That's all there is to it. Again, don't mistake how strongly you feel about something with anything akin to a "fundamental truth" and for god's sake stop cherry picking. Among the things we were asked to do, lobbing missiles at each other and other projectiles was among them. Speaking of addressing arguments, that's something you've yet to do. I've seen no griefing at the beta as yet. Plenty of ganking though. Take the opportunity and learn some evasive skills (or don't) because there are no in game repercussions between your beta tests and your live account so it's the perfect opportunity for it. The only toxic thing I see here is your regard for players who do not play according to your personal set of rules, not FDs.

  10. #265
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Ganking and griefing without communications is still a form of in-game abuse... you missed/ignored the "including but not limited to" part.

    Text/Voice comms are not the only things covered by 7.3.1... general behaviour and conduct is covered as well (which you also seem to have missed/ignored).

    TL;DR Lack of verbal/textual insults does not let CMDRs get off with overly aggressive behaviours such as ganking and griefing.
    You don't get to assign your interpretation to everyone. Your opinions, and desire to feign offense means absolutely nothing to reality. People can kill each other in game. People can kill each other in Beta. PEOPLE DO NOT REQUIRE JUSTIFICATION. We can kill each other all day every day, and it's not a violation of the rules. And lets say you go into a court of law, in what reality is a logical person going to believe that "including but not limited to" includes a being forbidden from using a huge game mechanic. If ED didn't want us to be able to kill each other, answer me this; why can we kill each other? Are you implying that the coders are so inept that they cannot remove PvP from the game if it wasn't part of the game? I assure you, in my limited knowledge of video game coding, it's much easier to make a game that doesn't have PvP than one that does. This is not a MOBIUS fantasy world. It's best for you to stay in solo.
    He was adiós'd by the kid in the turbo!


  11. #266
    If people could keep the hyperbole to a minimum it might help make the conversation more constructive.

  12. #267
    Sorry all, unintentional lock.

  13. #268
    Oh yeah, and stay on topic.

  14. #269
    Well, guess the test Beta is over. I hope FD got the data they wanted. It was heaps of fun! Maybe there should be a permanent test space for people to just go wild and have a go at everything!

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