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Thread: Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

  1. #976
    Originally Posted by ryan_m View Post (Source)
    The system you're describing doesn't exist, so there's no point in arguing about it. FDev have clearly set up security in a way that they like. Go to a Hi-RES in a high sec system and there's still pirates. The game doesn't conform to your idea of it.




    You don't have to have a PvP build, you just need to put a shield with decent strength on your ship and have the SKILL to escape. It's not hard. I could teach you to escape in less than an hour with a nearly stock ship.

    If it takes you an hour, you can't be a very good teacher.

    It absolutely leads to complacency because you can actually fly around in a shieldless T7 in solo and face no real threat from the NPCs. That's ridiculous.

    Yes it is ridiculous because mabe 10 NPCs turn up to shoot you. Like they did to me today. Tanked Python. 4 pirates. all dead. 4 more pirates. All dead. 4 more pirates. Damn. I better run. Did so.

    You are the exact person I'm talking about in that post, btw. Too risk averse and too complacent in a ship that faces literally no danger from anything OTHER than another player.
    Must be flying in PVP then. Plenty of action in solo.

    Originally Posted by Riverside View Post (Source)
    Hah! At last, the point

    No, this whole thread is pointlessly based on pure speculation.
    Yeah. I hate it when people speculate that there are no elite NPCs in solo. Thats just Horse Feathers.
    My tanked Python takes a beating when 2 or 3 NPC Anacondas attack me.

    I suppose the speculaters speculate that there are no pirates in solo that fly Anacondas, Corvettes and Pythons. Keep speculating, people. You might get it right one day.
    Meanwhile, I'll keep fighting the many NPCs that want me to DIE ...

  2. #977
    Originally Posted by ryan_m View Post (Source)
    It absolutely leads to complacency because you can actually fly around in a shieldless T7 in solo and face no real threat from the NPCs. That's ridiculous.
    That is absolutely true. I can fly around in a stock Hauler in solo, get interdicted by an npc Elite FDL and I'm like 'ho hum'. That should be close to a death sentence regardless of whether it's PVP or PVE. Other than an ill-advised attack on a Thargoid in a poorly built (and ineptly flown) Gunship I can't even remember the last time I lost a ship to an npc.

  3. #978
    Originally Posted by Mike Reacher View Post (Source)
    Must be flying in PVP then. Plenty of action in solo.



    Yeah. I hate it when people speculate that there are no elite NPCs in solo. Thats just Horse Feathers.
    My tanked Python takes a beating when 2 or 3 NPC Anacondas attack me.

    I suppose the speculaters speculate that there are no pirates in solo that fly Anacondas, Corvettes and Pythons. Keep speculating, people. You might get it right one day.
    Meanwhile, I'll keep fighting the many NPCs that want me to DIE ...
    If you're engineered and can actually fly, no NPC in this game is a threat outside of the Thargoids, and they're only a threat because they have special weapons, not because they can fly better than you.

  4. #979
    Many would agree that the NPCs should be tougher.

    Trouble is the number of people who've farmed NPCs and gotten inflated combat ranks is pretty high.... If they were to unnerf the NPCs brains they'd have to work out some system whereby people lose combat rank and/or the game tracks a hidden 'real' combat rank so as to balance what NPCs to send against them and avoid the slaughter of before.

  5. #980
    Originally Posted by frostypaw View Post (Source)
    Many would agree that the NPCs should be tougher.

    Trouble is the number of people who've farmed NPCs and gotten inflated combat ranks is pretty high.... If they were to unnerf the NPCs brains they'd have to work out some system whereby people lose combat rank and/or the game tracks a hidden 'real' combat rank so as to balance what NPCs to send against them and avoid the slaughter of before.
    Didn't they already give players who asked a one-time combat rank reset? No reason they couldn't do that again, problem solved. If you are actually OK at combat you'll burn back through the low ranks in no time by taking out strong npcs and if you're not good enough your combat rank will be exactly where it needs to be.

    You're right that the biggest problem with rebalancing npc difficulty isn't that some of us currently find it too easy, it's that some players find it too hard.

  6. #981
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    Didn't they already give players who asked a one-time combat rank reset? No reason they couldn't do that again, problem solved. If you are actually OK at combat you'll burn back through the low ranks in no time by taking out strong npcs and if you're not good enough your combat rank will be exactly where it needs to be.

    You're right that the biggest problem with rebalancing npc difficulty isn't that some of us currently find it too easy, it's that some players find it too hard.
    Yes, FD will reset your combat rank if you open a ticket and ask nicely. They reset my combat and trade ranks once. I'm close to asking for another reset. Not sure if they'll do it again, but it doesn't hurt to ask. If not, there's always a self-reset.

  7. #982
    Originally Posted by xondk View Post (Source)
    sorry but this seems odd.

    1: considering the attacker is basically the deciding factor here and the trend seems to be to attack those where very little is risked (or at least the problematic 'pvp' is about that), yeah, attacker isn't really 'risking' much. And yeah, there aren't things 'motivating' PvP, because Elite is not based around PvP, it is not a PvP game, it is a PvE game, where you 'can' attack others, but the game itself does not care, the only value is the one that the fighters find from fighting other players, to the game itself npcs and players doesn't really matter. Heck with 3.0 we are getting the first ever separation of players and npc's when it comes to showing trade routes, allowing to see npc or player routes.
    2: ....no, you are effectively saying "those not wanting to participate in PvP are killing PvP"? and no that's not how it works, you can't lose what never was there, and forcing people will just make them leave entirely?
    3: don't go after people that tend to do that, the trend seems to be situations again where attacker chooses a weak target, and in that case, what else can they do, they clearly aren't enjoying being at the mercy of someone who enjoys overpowering others? in real PvP where both parties are involved and there's actually a risk of losing to both? yeah I don't think those people combat log, and if they do........yeah, dunno.
    I did not judge whether or not solo mode and combat logging are good or bad, and I refrained to do so solely because it will trigger responses that will force the discussion to depart from the matter at hand, which is why is PvP not popular in ED.
    So, do you believe that if 1) there only was Open mode, and 2) there were no means to combat log, PvP in the game would become more popular, less popular, or would it be unaffected?

  8. #983
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    … If you are actually OK at combat you'll burn back through the low ranks in no time by taking out strong npcs and if you're not good enough your combat rank will be exactly where it needs to be.
    Problem with that is that combat in Elite Dangerous as more to do with gear than with skill.

    Make NPCs harder and the only result you get is the exposure of the complete imbalance of the combat aspect of this game. It ruined PvP and stronger NPCs would just ruin PvE too (or if you want, ruin it more than it already is).

  9. #984
    Originally Posted by Mike Reacher View Post (Source)
    Yeah. I hate it when people speculate that there are no elite NPCs in solo. Thats just Horse Feathers.
    My tanked Python takes a beating when 2 or 3 NPC Anacondas attack me.
    I'm sure it does. Unless you're running 5D unengineered thrusters on your Python though, the only reason you're having it out with three Anacondas to begin with is because you decided to. Sure you might lose that fight but to simply avoid losing your ship, all you had to do is go 4-2-0 and press boost twice.

    That's my point. We actually create the risks for ourselves.

  10. #985
    Originally Posted by Ktonos View Post (Source)
    2. Solo mode kills PvP. That is regardless if solo mode is "right or wrong". I don't want to go there. But I think it is undisputed that Solo kills PvP.
    Not even close, solo and Private Group allow people to play on their own or co-operatively - it does not kill PvP, it allows people not interested in PvP to enjoy the game their way... as FD intended, just go to the Hotel California thread if you think otherwise.

    Originally Posted by Ktonos View Post (Source)
    3. Combat logging. Even if you want to engage a cmdr, first thing popping in the mind must be .. "even if I end up winning he might combat log". Again, the target might not do so, but the thought is there.
    Combat Logging does not kill PvP, there are many potential reasons for Combat Logging (none of them excuse the breach of the EULA/Code of Conduct) but fundamentally while it does affect those that currently PvP it is almost certainly not the primary reason that people don't PvP.

    Originally Posted by Ktonos View Post (Source)
    1. When you engage a commander you have more to lose and less to gain compared to engaging an NPC.
    There are few in game things to actually motivate you to attack another cmdr. I mean, what...he has a meagre bounty? No . I can find an npc with less skill and worse ship with a higher bounty. The only thing to gain is the satisfaction you killed something harder than an npc. At the same time chances you will get killed are higher. And if you get killed you will lose your insurance cost.
    Why should PvP be foisted upon those that have little or no interest in it? As you point out the greater rewards come from PvE engagements and with the 3.0 C&P changes the scales will be tipped slightly in the victims favour. As of 3.0, those that engage in in-game illegal acts that induce a bounty (whether PvE or PvP) will encounter greater PvE resistance and be subjected to higher PvE consequences. FD are allowing some loop holes to this but fundamentally ED is a PvE title at it's core.

    Increasing rewards or lessening the penalties for PvP activities is not going to encourage more players to engage in it and as FD have stated that ED is a "play it your way" type PvX title, PvPers can give up on ANY hope of main game features being either mode locked or have their rewards adjusted according to the mode that people play in. Likewise, I think PvEers can give up on ANY hope of an official co-operative PvE mode with PvP disabled by game mechanics. The current status quo regarding PvE v. PvP and game modes in general is here to stay.

  11. #986
    The biggest issues I have with PvP
    1) Fights take way too long.
    2) I just don't like the FDL, and that's the stale meta.

  12. #987
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    You'll be way more clued up on PP than me as a regular participant but yep, it's obvious even to me that it wouldn't be as simple as just tweaking a few things, that's why I said the chance to change it from what it is now (which has always looked like a missed opportunity to me) into something more meaningful is probably gone already just because of the amount of dev time that would be needed for what is currently at least a minority interest. Shame because it's only ever going to remain a minority interest as it is now.
    Yeah, powerplay is basically screwed at this point. It's poor initial implementation means that it requires major work, but since it needs major work most players aren't interested, and since most players aren't interested it won't get much attention. Unless powerplay can find some way to ruin the game for the majority of the playerbase like engineers did, it's not going to get any dev attention any time soon.

  13. #988
    Originally Posted by Darty View Post (Source)
    Yeah, powerplay is basically screwed at this point. It's poor initial implementation means that it requires major work, but since it needs major work most players aren't interested, and since most players aren't interested it won't get much attention. Unless powerplay can find some way to ruin the game for the majority of the playerbase like engineers did, it's not going to get any dev attention any time soon.
    See also: Multicrew. You're spot on; both of them suffer from being locked in a vicious circle of disinterest and relatively inoffensive failure.

  14. #989
    Originally Posted by Enexemander View Post (Source)
    The biggest issues I have with PvP
    1) Fights take way too long.
    2) I just don't like the FDL, and that's the stale meta.
    The FDL is a thing of beauty.

  15. #990
    Originally Posted by MottiKhan View Post (Source)
    The FDL is a thing of beauty.
    I prefer it's wreckage.