View Entry Info: Possible Illicit Cargo Fines Exploit

Category:
PC/MAC Bug Reports
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.
Thread: Possible Illicit Cargo Fines Exploit

  1. #1

    Possible Illicit Cargo Fines Exploit

    Severity
    Moderate

    Frequency
    All of the time (100%)

    Time of occurrence
    11:30 EST AND 18:00 EST

    Date of occurrence
    14/06/17 AND 15/06/17

    VR?
    None / N/A

    Location
    Lambo

    Ship/SRV?
    N/A

    Ship Type


    Commander Name
    DevilzmyShadow

    Description
    My friend witnessed a Imperial Cutter outside of Common Terminal in Lambo on 14/06/17 in the Afternoon EST. The Imperial Cutter was NOT approaching the mail slot or going through it. He was just stationary outside the station. My friend approached and cargo scanned him. He saw that he had illicit cargo on him.

    Realizing that this Imperial Cutter was purposely being scanned to receive a fine in order to tank the influence of controlling faction my freind fired upon the Imperial Cutter. He managed to scare the Imperial Cutter off. You can get scanned multiple times for the same item in your cargo racks. For all we know the Imperial Cutter could of have gone into Solo/ Private group and continued to do this.

    Because of the Imperial Cutter the Crime Report shot up greatly, which affects the controlling factions influence and civil tranquility(civil unrest, civil war, exc).

    On 15/06/17 my friend and I kept a close eye on the Crime Report in Lambo between 18:00 EST - 22:30 EST. The Crime Report increased from 10 million Credits to 20 million credits! That's a 10 million increase in 5 1/2 hours!

    It's important to note that Lambo is a small traffic system with a population of only 3.8 million. On 14/06/17 and 15/06/17 the traffic report stated only 75-88 ships. A large portion of those ships are the same commanders re-entering the system or station.

    The Controlling Factions influence in Lambo decreased on 6/16/17.


    That is why I believe there's a possible Illicit Cargo Fines Exploit.

    Something that be be used to easily decrease the influence of a controlling faction.


    Steps to Reproduce
    1.Choose a large starport station in a high Security System.
    1.Get 100 illegal items that are on that stations Prohibited List.
    3.Go to the station
    4.Sit outside the station near the mailslot, be sure to be in Line of Sight of security vessels.
    5.Deploy hard points while you have the station targeted. Sometimes that can help you attract security vessels to scan you quicker.
    6.Wait to be scanned.
    7.Deploy hard points again while you have the station targeted. Sometimes that can help you attract security vessels to scan you quicker.
    8.Wait to get scanned again and again and again and so on.
    9.Look at your fines section. It should be quiet a large number wherever you did this.
    10.Observe the influence decrease next tick for the controlling faction.

    Note:This possible exploit might be less effective in High population/ high traffic system



    Additional files?

  2. #2
    I'm glad you reported this. I don't think it's either a bug or an exploit, unfortunately this sort of thing is typical of the currently lopsided design of the BGS.

    Positive actions: trading, bounty hunting, exploration data, missions, etc all have very sharp diminishing returns which effectively caps the amount of positive influence players can gain for their faction.

    Negative actions: smuggling, murder, commiting crimes, failing missions, etc remain effective at lowering influence indefinitely.

    This design decision has effectively enabled lone players to trash a factions influence within a system, regardless of how many players are trying to help the faction or how much positive activity they generate. Until the devs apply the same sort of diminishing returns to negative actions that are in place for positive ones, PMFs will always be vulnerable to the sort of activity you've highlighted.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by call_me_trent View Post (Source)
    I'm glad you reported this. I don't think it's either a bug or an exploit, unfortunately this sort of thing is typical of the currently lopsided design of the BGS.

    Positive actions: trading, bounty hunting, exploration data, missions, etc all have very sharp diminishing returns which effectively caps the amount of positive influence players can gain for their faction.

    Negative actions: smuggling, murder, committing crimes, failing missions, etc remain effective at lowering influence indefinitely.

    This design decision has effectively enabled lone players to trash a factions influence within a system, regardless of how many players are trying to help the faction or how much positive activity they generate. Until the devs apply the same sort of diminishing returns to negative actions that are in place for positive ones, PMFs will always be vulnerable to the sort of activity you've highlighted.
    I disagree, I think this IS an exploit. I do not believe that you can assume that this is something the developers were planning. Let me explain: A game mechanic that allows players to hover in front of stations for 1-2 hours and tank influence. The developers of Elite Dangerous created this game to be challenging and frankly time consuming. That is why I believe this game mechanic served a different purpose than what it is being used as now being abused by the player base.

    In my opinion that qualifies it as an exploit.

    I agree with everything else you said.

    I would still like a response from Frontier. Maybe they are testing it? My steps to reproduce should be correct.

    Ships:
    ✝Blessed Saint Agatha✝ - 512 m/s Fer De Lance
    ✝Blessed Saint Elizabeth✝ - Imperial Cutter
    ✝Blessed Saint Emma✝ - Burst Laser Combat Anaconda Build
    ✝Blessed Saint Peter✝ - 60ly Explorer Anaconda

  4. #4
    Cat's out of the bag bois!
    Solo and Private Groups should not affect Power Play or the BGS.
    - It's like playing a racing game where some players are Ghost Cars

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by DevilzmyShadow View Post (Source)
    I disagree, I think this IS an exploit. I do not believe that you can assume that this is something the developers were planning. Let me explain: A game mechanic that allows players to hover in front of stations for 1-2 hours and tank influence. The developers of Elite Dangerous created this game to be challenging and frankly time consuming. That is why I believe this game mechanic served a different purpose than what it is being used as now being abused by the player base.

    In my opinion that qualifies it as an exploit.

    I agree with everything else you said.

    I would still like a response from Frontier. Maybe they are testing it? My steps to reproduce should be correct.
    I recommend you bring this up on the BGS thread in the Dangerous Discussion section. You're more likely to get some practical advice on how you can best mitigate the effects of someone trying to trash your system.

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Background-Sim

    A year ago I'd have felt exactly as you do now, that this can't be working as intended. In that time we've seen other reported exploitable mechanics patched (like selling one unit at a time) but despite the lack of a cap on negative actions getting raised pretty much every week, this has never acknowledged as a bug and it's never been changed. Perhaps the passage of time has just made me a bit more cynical about the BGS...

    Anyway, while I'm not saying don't expect much help here (honest, QA peeps ;) ) I think your best bet if you want some advice on how to prop up your influence is definitely to raise it on the BGS thread.

  6. #6
    from testing back in 1.5.:

    a) you can't get fined more than once for illegal goods in the same system. I'll test, whether that has changed - but: did you test it?

    b) fines have either a cap, or a minimal effect. i dropped over 10 000 tones into the NFZ of a small population system, getting over 4 mio in fines. effect: zero. did you have a more recent test on the effect of fines in a no-traffic system?

    c) 10 mio fine sound more like a single fine for a cutter full of imperial slaves (14 000 cr/t) - so it isn't even necessary to get scanned more than once for that amount. was that cutter full of imperial slaves?

    d) as black market trade is reducing a factions influence, your "bug report" sounds more like the very normal effect of BM trade.
    ___

    Ceci n'est pas une signature.

  7. #7
    OP, I suggest you test this properly before filing a bug report.


    -CMDR Sali Vader // Join SINC today! // Discord

  8. #8
    so, quick'n'dirty test.

    a) system security won't scan you twice in the same instance - you can't get fined more than once for illegal cargo sitting there. that includes getting their attention by firing in the no fire zone, ramming npc, et. altera.

    b) if you leave the instance and reenter, you might get scanned a second time, but you receive no fine for your already scanned cargo. this holds true for relogging.

    tested now.

    not sure, what this bug report is referring to...
    ___

    Ceci n'est pas une signature.

  9. This is the last staff post in this thread. #9
    Hey Cmdrs,

    I've passed this on to get checked out.

    Please note,
    A Cmdr will lose rep with minor factions when committing crimes. Those crimes also have consequences for the appropriate minor faction, which vary depending upon the crime. Major factions tend not to be affected by crimes.

    When you commit a crime you take a hit to your reputation with that faction but it doens't change the influence of the faction that scanned you.

    If you have any additional information about this please do let me know.
    Please remember to use the bug reporting template, found in our guidelines for posting threads about bugs!
    Please check our known issues threads before making your report:
    PC & Mac - Known Issues Thread
    Xbox One - Known Issues Thread

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by QA-Mitch View Post (Source)
    Hey Cmdrs,
    When you commit a crime you take a hit to your reputation with that faction but it doesn't change the influence of the faction that scanned you.

    If you have any additional information about this please do let me know.
    You said committing crimes has no affect on influence. What about receiving fines, does that affect influence?

    So killing innocents doesn't impact the influence of the controlling minor faction since it is a crime? How can that be possible?

    Unless you are talking about scannable crimes. Transporting illegal cargo is not a crime though. In the sense that a committing a crime gives you a bounty. Which you don't get from transporting illegal goods. You get a fine.

    Ships:
    ✝Blessed Saint Agatha✝ - 512 m/s Fer De Lance
    ✝Blessed Saint Elizabeth✝ - Imperial Cutter
    ✝Blessed Saint Emma✝ - Burst Laser Combat Anaconda Build
    ✝Blessed Saint Peter✝ - 60ly Explorer Anaconda

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by goemon View Post (Source)
    so, quick'n'dirty test.

    a) system security won't scan you twice in the same instance - you can't get fined more than once for illegal cargo sitting there. that includes getting their attention by firing in the no fire zone, ramming npc, et. altera.

    b) if you leave the instance and reenter, you might get scanned a second time, but you receive no fine for your already scanned cargo. this holds true for relogging.

    tested now.

    not sure, what this bug report is referring to...
    I'll test it myself when times allows thanks.

    Ships:
    ✝Blessed Saint Agatha✝ - 512 m/s Fer De Lance
    ✝Blessed Saint Elizabeth✝ - Imperial Cutter
    ✝Blessed Saint Emma✝ - Burst Laser Combat Anaconda Build
    ✝Blessed Saint Peter✝ - 60ly Explorer Anaconda

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by SaliVader View Post (Source)
    OP, I suggest you test this properly before filing a bug report.
    And why is that?

    I specifically stated this is only possibly a bug in the title. We witnessed this happening in our systems and documented it. As far as I'm aware it doesn't stipulate anywhere that you need to test a possible bug yourself before posting on this forum.

    The steps to reproduce are accurate if this a truly a bug. As previously stated in another post I'll test it myself when time allows it.

    If what we saw in our system and the results in influence trends are just coincidence's is possible.

    Ships:
    ✝Blessed Saint Agatha✝ - 512 m/s Fer De Lance
    ✝Blessed Saint Elizabeth✝ - Imperial Cutter
    ✝Blessed Saint Emma✝ - Burst Laser Combat Anaconda Build
    ✝Blessed Saint Peter✝ - 60ly Explorer Anaconda

  13. #13
    If it looks like a bug, especially of the exploitative variety, it's probably best to report it. If it turns out ok then no harm done.

    Having said that, the BGS by its very 'black box' nature can make it difficult to tell whether something is doing what you think it's doing :). The BGS thread linked above is a good first port of call to see if it's already understood or known about.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by DevilzmyShadow View Post (Source)
    And why is that?

    I specifically stated this is only possibly a bug in the title. We witnessed this happening in our systems and documented it. As far as I'm aware it doesn't stipulate anywhere that you need to test a possible bug yourself before posting on this forum.

    The steps to reproduce are accurate if this a truly a bug. As previously stated in another post I'll test it myself when time allows it.

    If what we saw in our system and the results in influence trends are just coincidence's is possible.
    you might want to read into the bug reporting guidelines: "This forum is the place to report bugs that occur in the game client."

    as what you describe isn't possible in the game client to occur, at least not like you describe it (easy to test), i share SaliVaders suggestion.

    i could file a bug report: "space whale possibly not spawning on waterworld in hip 17690". or a bug report "possible space whale killing exploit". why would i have to make sure, that space whales are actually in the game?

    people are very quick with assuming possible exploits these days. your thread title is "possible exploit". no, the exploit like you describe it, isn't possible.

    generally, if you find a real exploit, i suggest you file a ticket at support.frontier.com instead of a bug report. as you don't want a real exploit to be out in the wild.

    if it would work like you describe it, your exploiter would be a bit stupid, as he could as well fire his weapons thousand times in the no-fire-zone, instead of waiting to get scanned (which won't get him a fine the second time for the same cargo). for firing in the NFZ you get a fine every time. might be worth testing whether that has an effect.
    ___

    Ceci n'est pas une signature.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Fendalton View Post (Source)
    Cat's out of the bag bois!
    Is this supposed to be a joke, or are you serious?

    Pretty low behavior if this has been known and exploited to the hilt.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33305725/Elite/adeptdrstrange.png

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast