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Thread: We need an imperial gunship. Especially now that Thargoids are confirmed as returning.

  1. #1

    We need an imperial gunship. Especially now that Thargoids are confirmed as returning.

    Can Gutamaya please make some new combat oriented imperial ships in preparation of Thargoids return?

    I know this is likely to start a flamewar between Federation and Empire fanboys , but please, hear me out....

    In comparison to their federal counterparts, the imperial ships are fragile and toothless. I've even seen another imperial player saying that "Imperial ships are made of wet paper".

    Take our first rank lock ship, the Courier, 3xM hardpoints class 3 distributor, good shields for its size to be fair, having twice the shields of its fed counterpart, but only a quarter of the armour. The courier is outgunned by a viper mk3 which costs a twelfth of the price and has no rank lock in front of it. Being unlocked at rank 3 I am going to compare the courier to the federation Rank 3 ship, the Dropship, which has 4x Medium hardpoints and 1x Large hardpoint. Even with unengineered pulse lasers in all hardpoints, the FDS has twice the firepower in Damage Per Second and has a suitably large distributor to keep firing for roughly the same amount of time as a courier can keep its guns blazing if not longer. Granted the FDS's jump range and speed are weak points compared to the courier which can jump ten light years more and boost to higher speeds but the FDS can boost more often because of that distributor .

    The next imperial rank locked ship is the Clipper, which comes at rank 7, the same rank as the Federal Gunship. However there in lies a problem, in between the FDS & FGS the feds have the Federal Assault Ship unlocked at Rank 5. On paper, stats wise, the FAS and Clipper are comparable and in my opinion fairly balanced against each other. However the clipper is the weaker of the two as it has poor weapons placement/convergence, can only land on large pads, has a very poor base shield modifier. The base shield modifier on a clipper is so woefully low that in straight MJ's a vulture can make a 30% stronger shield than a clipper, and the clippers shields and boosters making that weaker shield costs more than twice what a combat fit vulture costs, and the vultures ratio of distributor size to shield power demands is also more favourable.

    The Clipper is not even in the same league as a FGS. It is in the same league as a FAS, empire rank 7 ship comparable to federation rank 5 ship no less. But given how much money combat fitting the Clipper costs, it should have similar performance to an Fer De Lance, which out guns and outspecs it in shields when in combat fit. What imperial ship should we compare against the Federal Gunship? There is nothing to compare it to, if we go for clipper then obviously the clipper is at a strong disadvantage not being able to launch fighters unlike the FGS, and the FGS having about 30% more firepower and one size larger of distributor to keep those guns blazing.

    The empire has nothing comparable to the FGS.

    Since the Cutter is obviously our equivalent to a Corvette, highlighted by both being unlocked at Rank 12, I'll compare them directly. Corvette/Cutter are both in lore their respective navy's frigates. The imperial one is seemingly for soft power while the federal one for naked force. The imperial cutter has the worst yaw pitch and roll rates of any ship in the game, even if the owner lavishes >365Million credits on 8A thrusters and 8A powerplant to keep them going. Some might argue that the cutters prodigious boost speed is a counter the the corvettes agility and its own lack thereof. However, please remember that the Cutter has class 7 distributor feeding class 8 thrusters, so boost turning with those hungry class 8 thrusters will rapidly deplete that meagre class 7 distributor, which, unlike the corvettes pairing of class 7 thrusters and class 8 distributor, simply struggles. Furthermore Weapons placement on a cutter is simply abysmal compared to a corvette's placement and convergence. I accept that is the payback for our Cutters greater jump range and speed. However its manoeuvrability and power distributor need a serious rethink, the cutter, simply because it is so heavy it needs class 8 thrusters needs a class 8 distributor.

    My suggestions?

    To fill the gunship shaped gap in her fleet I'd suggest that the emperor follow the example of the British Empire's Royal Navy during World War 2 and commission an emergency order for a new class of ships from Gutamaya.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Em...mme_destroyers

    I'd anticipate the new class of ships arising from that emergency purchase order getting a name like "Imperial Carrack" or "Imperial Corsair" or "Imperial Caravel". I'd also suggest that in the interest of expediency (both for FD and Gutamaya depending on how strong your immersion is) that these new ships be based on an Imperial Clipper and adapting it to become a gunship by applying modifications to the hull to accommodate:
    • a class 4 hardpoint on the top aft section of the fuselage space to be made for this by removing one of the class 4 optional slots and moving machinery accordingly
    • if possible relocate the 2x Medium hardpoints towards the centre line of the vessel
    • either of these two options
      • installing twin class 6 distributors in parallel having one in the current position and into the class 6 optional slot and
      • a class 7 power distributor - by moving internal compartments or using the class 7 optional bay

    • Find space for an additional two utility slots by converting one of the class two module bays
    • retune the positioning and distribution of the shield emmiters on the resultant modified hull to give it a shield strength comparable to a Fer De Lance


    The ship that would be built from the above design brief would be hampered by:
    • a class 6 powerplant with a lot of power consuming weapons and utilities
    • its inability to land on a medium pad restricting its options for repair rearm and refuelling
    • a reduction in internal module slots limiting its versatility, it is now a gunship not a multipurpose vessel
    • since we haven't upgraded the thrusters and Frame Shift Drive, we might see a slight drop in jump range manoeuvrability and speed


    To make the "Imperial Cutter" frigate class more effective, I'd suggest a class eight distributor be shoehorned in like a class 7 fuel tank was shoehorned into a Beluga during 2.2 beta. I'd also suggest that we increase the size of its manoeuvring thruster nozzles to give it a healthy boost to its yaw pitch and roll stats to bring a cutter with class 8A thrusters agility comparable to that of an anaconda when it has class 7A thrusters installed. In the interests of balance make sure the revised cutter is still less agile than a corvette, but more agile than it is currently.

    TLR War is coming, imperial ships are lame, so lets slightly buff the cutter by giving it a bigger distributor and a slight buff to its agility, and make a new ship class (effectively an imperial gunship) out of a modified clipper hull with less internal slots and more hardpoints.

  2. #2
    That'd be kind of cool, but I'd still prefer an offering from the alliance.

  3. #3
    Why not just fill the Gunship sized hole in your fleet by ranking up in the Federation and buying a Gunship?

    I'll set aside my usual Fed versus Imp roleplay here. They are not meant to be mirror images of each other. The ships are expressions of the factions themselves. I like that they are distinct and I wouldn't want to lose that. The FDL can fill the role you're looking for if you don't want to rank up with the Feds.

  4. #4
    Amen to the Alliance getting ships of their own, give them a damned navy too, they are a superpower after all....

    I deliberately picked two ways to solve the disparity of fed vs imp firepower while not taking lots of development resources to make new models from scratch, so those resources could be more appropriately spent on developing Argent / Turner Alliance ships from scratch, or Thargoid things.

  5. #5
    Because Clippers are so weak, they're prdominantly flown in PvP, ok....
    And the Cutter is vastly superior to the Corvette. Much more tanky, much faster, and with enough weapons to choose from that get along with a class 7 distributor just fine.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Cmdr. Numa View Post (Source)
    Because Clippers are so weak, they're prdominantly flown in PvP, ok....
    And the Cutter is vastly superior to the Corvette. Much more tanky, much faster, and with enough weapons to choose from that get along with a class 7 distributor just fine.
    And this says the man who's INARA pilots license clearly states his ship is a Federal Corvette named Damocles....

  7. #7
    Behold, the imperial FAS:

    Because white paint fixes everything.

  8. #8
    For anyone saving up for 8A Thrusters, the weight is such that my G5DD Ds were the same performance as my G5DD As. So save your credits.

    But yes, we need a proper medium pad cruiser. I spent 400+ hours in a Cutter and my 20 hours or so in a Vette shows how the Vette spanks it.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Jayridium View Post (Source)
    Amen to the Alliance getting ships of their own, give them a damned navy too, they are a superpower after all....

    I deliberately picked two ways to solve the disparity of fed vs imp firepower while not taking lots of development resources to make new models from scratch, so those resources could be more appropriately spent on developing Argent / Turner Alliance ships from scratch, or Thargoid things.
    The Alliance is supposed to be a proxy for the EU. The EU doesn't have a military arm. They tried that and it was voted down.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Behold, the imperial FAS:
    https://inara.cz/data/ships/197/197010x1971.jpg
    Because white paint fixes everything.
    I've got a chrome FGS and FedVette with imperial powerplay decals on it :-)

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by VonBlade View Post (Source)
    For anyone saving up for 8A Thrusters, the weight is such that my G5DD Ds were the same performance as my G5DD As. So save your credits.

    But yes, we need a proper medium pad cruiser. I spent 400+ hours in a Cutter and my 20 hours or so in a Vette shows how the Vette spanks it.
    Is this in code? I don't get it...

  12. #12
    Heh. I do want a bit more agility for the Cutter. Not much, but enough to make a Type-9 Heavy jealous. It doesn't really need that or a bigger distributor, though.

    As far as the Clipper is concerned, I think it excels when used correctly. I wouldn't turn down more shields, but I wouldn't sacrifice a thing to make it happen.

    Lastly, I agree we do need something to fill a dedicated combat role. I don't care who stands for what, no navy will forgo a dedicated battle boat to keep up appearances. It isn't practical. The Federation would have stomped the Empire ages ago with navies matched up like this. However, the Federation would need a ship added as well. I'm not in favor of getting a combat ship while they get nothing.

  13. #13
    I'm all in favor of more ships - collecting ships is my second favorite thing to do after collecting credits.

    I'd especially like to see an entry from Saud Kruger in the combat ship market as well.

  14. #14
    Or, in a plot twist, the Alien Flowers are Alliance ships....

  15. #15
    The Empire doesn't make ugly gunships. Even if the Thargoids come for us all we shall refuse to make ugly boxes like the cavemen of the Federation.

    So instead of talking about power distributors and thrusters, you should talk about the important things

    How do you make it look good.

    (Edit please read this in a French accent)

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