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Thread: Is the barrier of entry to experience PVP too high?

  1. #16
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    The fact that they're aren't 15 mega threads about this says to me that most of the community used this or some other engineering exploit to some degree. Which means the game is effectively broken for new players now. I would not recommend anyone new join the game at this time unfortunately.

    I've been doing it the old fashioned way from the start and I'm not up in arms about it mostly because I don't bother with open that much anymore. That could be one of the reasons there are not a lot of mega threads about it but there were some a few days ago though.

  2. #17
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    "Established and respected PvPers."

    I've seen this too, and I can help sum up who these particular PvPers are: the one's banging on ad nauseum about the negative impact of the exploit going on for so long unchecked.

    In other words: if you're a serious PvPer and you're not here screaming from the rafters about the damage caused by the exploit, but instead remaining silent or even trying to minimize the import of the exploit, then you are suspected of using it. To put it mildly.
    I must agree here. I did expect some of the prolific PvP advoctes to voice their disgust, as you have done, but their silence on the matter is more than telling. It seems the idea is to hope this blows over as soon as possible and hope the cheating goes unnoticed and they can return to tell everyone to git gud. Some decided to go on the attack with a dose of whataboutism.

  3. #18
    No, barrier of entry is very low.

    Pick a T6/T7/T9, fly open at a CG. You'll be experiencing PvP shortly.

  4. #19
    Tell him not to bother. It isn't worth wasting the time to go against the cheatships.

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    "Established and respected PvPers."
    In other words: if you're a serious PvPer and you're not here screaming from the rafters about the damage caused by the exploit, but instead remaining silent or even trying to minimize the import of the exploit, then you are suspected of using it. To put it mildly.
    The thing is, no one outside of FD knows how widespread the exploit usage was. Before that news broke I never thought I couldn't compete in PVP. I still engage in PVP despite the perception that everyone got their G5 mods rolling G1 materials. In my experience, there are either far fewer exploiters out there than perceived or most are very bad at PVP.

    For the record. I'm not an exploiter and agree with the sentiment that the exploiters should have their mods wiped and that engineers has been more harm than good for PVP.


  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    The fact that they're aren't 15 mega threads about this says to me that most of the community used this or some other engineering exploit to some degree. Which means the game is effectively broken for new players now. I would not recommend anyone new join the game at this time unfortunately.
    Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post (Source)
    I must agree here. I did expect some of the prolific PvP advoctes to voice their disgust, as you have done, but their silence on the matter is more than telling. It seems the idea is to hope this blows over as soon as possible and hope the cheating goes unnoticed and they can return to tell everyone to git gud. Some decided to go on the attack with a dose of whataboutism.
    Basically we have the ED equivalent of the Tour de France doping scandal. The top tier athletes form a conspiracy, and that conspiracy consistently drags in more and more and ever more people, all with the understanding that it's either dope or kiss their careers in the pro's goodbye. And then once they've partaken at any level, their silence is forever guaranteed.

  7. #22
    Originally Posted by Navigare Necesse Est View Post (Source)
    Tell him not to bother. It isn't worth wasting the time to go against the cheatships.
    That is a good advice.

    The whole exploit episode is an prime example of crapping where you eat. I guess open will deplete some more, as food moves away.

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    The fact that they're aren't 15 mega threads about this says to me that most of the community used this or some other engineering exploit to some degree. Which means the game is effectively broken for new players now. I would not recommend anyone new join the game at this time unfortunately.
    I could see that for somebody joining the game whose only goal was to a top ranked PvP player (which is kind of a meaningless metric in its own right). While I wholeheartedly disapprove of the engineering exploits it doesn't impact new players all that much. Once you learn to high wake even in open getting jumped is a one minute or so time sync. In short I really don't get the idea that ED should be avoided by a new player because some player they'll statistically never see has an unreasonably powerful ship.

  9. #24
    Originally Posted by Muetdhiver View Post (Source)
    No, barrier of entry is very low.

    Pick a T6/T7/T9, fly open at a CG. You'll be experiencing PvP shortly.
    Truer words have seldom been spoken. Rep

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post (Source)
    I must agree here. I did expect some of the prolific PvP advoctes to voice their disgust, as you have done, but their silence on the matter is more than telling. It seems the idea is to hope this blows over as soon as possible and hope the cheating goes unnoticed and they can return to tell everyone to git gud. Some decided to go on the attack with a dose of whataboutism.
    I attempted to create such a mega thread, but it got unceremoniously moved to the Engineers subforum. That didn't kill it, but it certainly muffled it. Frontier seems to be trying to sweep this topic under the rug, like ignoring a tumor and hoping it goes away on its own.

  11. #26
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    I attempted to create such a mega thread, but it got unceremoniously moved to the Engineers subforum. That didn't kill it, but it certainly muffled it. Frontier seems to be trying to sweep this topic under the rug, like ignoring a tumor and hoping it goes away on its own.
    Yep, that's how I read it.

  12. #27
    Originally Posted by Belthize View Post (Source)
    I could see that for somebody joining the game whose only goal was to a top ranked PvP player (which is kind of a meaningless metric in its own right). While I wholeheartedly disapprove of the engineering exploits it doesn't impact new players all that much. Once you learn to high wake even in open getting jumped is a one minute or so time sync. In short I really don't get the idea that ED should be avoided by a new player because some player they'll statistically never see has an unreasonably powerful ship.
    This is essentially saying:
    1) that new player shouldn't expect to compete with older players.
    2) the game is depopulated to the point where you don't need to worry about PVP.
    3) PVP for new players is all about learning to run away.

    If I was a new player and read this, I would take it as a recommendation to look elsewhere for a healthier game. Btw, you are woefully underestimating the threats to new players who would be insta-gibbed before they could find their high wake button. Granted there isn't much to lose by dying, but new players aren't going to see it this way at all, since they don't have much, losing anything is a bigger deal.

  13. #28
    My personal view is I have zero idea why anyone thinks playing pvp in open is a good thing, an enjoyable thing or even slightly viable for either of the afformentioned at the moment - we know that various clans have spent 1000s of rolls getting god rolled ships and they seemingly kill everything in sight, i.e. anyone not them, so it just means the the absurd lack of balance between a non god role pvp ship or dare I suggest a multirole ship (eg: python that can trade and fight) vrs a combat (god) roll anything will mean pvpers always win. Starting afresh where you can't godroll your ship because FD finally sorted it out after a player melt down (months or even a year after they were first made aware apparently) will just be an exercise in frustration - think trying to fly t1 against t2 in terms of the game that cant be mentioned - it's a fools errand. Basically FD totally screwed the pooch on open - is a waste of time now, better get used to it. For pvp find a game that's a) built for it and b) fair.

  14. #29
    What a dumb line... depopulated....

    Open is depopulated because auf PvPer, that kill anyone that is not in a Private group by the count of three. There are over 6000 players online every time. Most play in group to avoid PvP.

  15. #30
    God-rolled imperial multirole ships (Cutter, Clipper) are actually superior to the "combat" variants. This is because

    a) they are faster and (god-rolled) speed is king in PVP
    b) they have more modules to god-roll, hence their god-roll advantage gets multiplied.

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