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Thread: Is the barrier of entry to experience PVP too high?

  1. #31
    Don't worry guys and gals. Someone will make a staged "Git Gud" video on youtube about how easy it is to survive "god-rolled" ships.

    Everything is fine. Just like it always has been.
    Just "git gud".
    It's called Elite Dangerous for some reason. It's not meant to be fair.

    Nothing has changed that much, it's just that now some PvP players realize how it is to stand close to no chance.

    PvP was broken before the grade1 exploit and it was broken before 2.1. It just now affecting those who previously sang the song of "git gud".
    So, git gud. Adapt. Stop spilling salt.
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  2. #32
    @Zadian: you are right. PvP is possible in ED, but not supported. ED is encouraging PvE-Kooperation and not competitive gameplay.
    You should play together to achieve goals. Not fight each other.
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  3. #33
    Get some friends or willing commanders together and battle it out in unmodified sidewinders... that is all you need to know, to get good at PvP. A skilled individual even stands a chance against a medium opponent in an over-engineered ship.
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  4. #34
    Originally Posted by -=VampyrE=- View Post (Source)
    @Zadian: you are right. PvP is possible in ED, but not supported. ED is encouraging PvE-Kooperation and not competitive gameplay.
    You should play together to achieve goals. Not fight each other.
    Playing together is what Elite is all about, yes.
    "Foxtrott-Romeo-Alpha" - CMDR Francis G. Blackly - Soldier of Fortune since 3270
    Pilot of the Asp Explorer
    "DSE Cayetano Valdès" <- Click for Coriolis Data
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  5. #35
    It must also be noted that the ready availability of combat-spec ships at every high profile system has been made easier by the "ship transfer" feature. Previously combat-spec ship was balanced by their jump range, thus from my own experience most of the PVP engagements at CG (with some exceptions) were between multirole ships or combat-spec ships that were bought and modded at a station within that very system.

    Now specialized combat-only ships can be taken anywhere and their jump ranges no longer matter.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost View Post (Source)
    Don't worry guys and gals. Someone will make a staged "Git Gud" video on youtube about how easy it is to survive "god-rolled" ships.

    Everything is fine. Just like it always has been.
    Just "git gud".
    It's called Elite Dangerous for some reason. It's not meant to be fair.

    Nothing has changed that much, it's just that now some PvP players realize how it is to stand close to no chance.

    PvP was broken before the grade1 exploit and it was broken before 2.1. It just now affecting those who previously sang the song of "git gud".
    So, git gud. Adapt. Stop spilling salt.
    Your nonchalance isn't convincing anyone. You may as well have posted a "hi, I have a god-rolled ship, and I'm loving it!" banner in your sig.

    I spent the last year engineering my fleet to max (not god) rolls, and the last 2 years honing PvP skills. I can fly circles around god-ships but I can't put a dent in their shields in less than 40 min without using mines, or if they're really bad, torps.

    Given this imba state of affairs, I cannot recommend anyone new to attempt PVP. It's basically a waste of time atm.

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)
    I brought a mate as wing to a CG system today. He's somewhat new, he has an A-rated Federal Assault Ship that is designed to hull tank.

    To cut the story short, we met with various opposition ship types (Viper to Corvette) but it was just so frustrating to see him get killed within 10 seconds from many of our engagements despite him being able to fly exclusively with FA-off, even by ships way lower in price.

    He doesn't have Horizons but will buy it this week, but it seems he's got a long way to go before he can enter another PVP match. He'll first have to become ally to Sirius, then get 25 modular terminals, then upgrade various modules to Grade 3, then learn to use SRV, then find unknown fragments, and then grind Prof Palin. And that's to access to just 1 module.

    We're not even talking about finding the materials and data that is required to upgrade the modules yet.

    So starting from an A-rated ship, it may take him months before he can start PVP.

    Is the barrier of entry too high?
    Since there was a bug where all PvP people could get cheap god-rolls on grade 5 mods, it is impossible for a new one to ever fight PvP properly.

    The gates for PvP are closed now. Everyone who hasn't yet the best of best of best of best is out!

  8. #38
    I think a pvpér might suggest otherwise -

    tools to bring other ships out of sc? Yep
    Tools to shoot other players? Yes
    An engine that suports other players being available to shoot in the face? Yep
    Advertising that suggests that pvp is a thing? Yep
    PVP actually happening? Check

    All in all, E is designed to handle pvp somewhat, although the design lacks a bit I think in making it a popular activity (loss for loser, nothing lost for winner, massive disparity between non pvp ships and pvp ships, before we even go into the lulz of the godroll problem... - E pvp is dead imo apart from those who godrolled their ships and they can just fight each other endlessly in a huge unpopulated open)

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)

    So starting from an A-rated ship, it may take him months before he can start PVP.

    Is the barrier of entry too high?
    Nope. He is able to PvP pretty fast - he just should not go for big ships. And yes, life is sometimes unfair.

    Regarding the barrier: Nope, it´s Elite. In this game, nobody cares for what ship you are flying and nobody cares for your time. Elite is and was always a time consuming game, and even the 100017873928th thread of "Meh Wantz Instantz PvPz" does not change a bit. Elite is not a shooter, Elite is no PvP game and it hopefully will never be.


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  10. #40
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)
    I brought a mate as wing to a CG system today. He's somewhat new, he has an A-rated Federal Assault Ship that is designed to hull tank.

    To cut the story short, we met with various opposition ship types (Viper to Corvette) but it was just so frustrating to see him get killed within 10 seconds from many of our engagements despite him being able to fly exclusively with FA-off, even by ships way lower in price.

    He doesn't have Horizons but will buy it this week, but it seems he's got a long way to go before he can enter another PVP match. He'll first have to become ally to Sirius, then get 25 modular terminals, then upgrade various modules to Grade 3, then learn to use SRV, then find unknown fragments, and then grind Prof Palin. And that's to access to just 1 module.

    We're not even talking about finding the materials and data that is required to upgrade the modules yet.

    So starting from an A-rated ship, it may take him months before he can start PVP.

    Is the barrier of entry too high?
    Many players have stated that before. For PvP Horizons is essential and all them engineers (well not all of them but like almost all of them). A fully engineered ship is approximately four times stronger than its unmodded equivalent. It is better in everything and most likely will wreck anything unmodded.
    The solution to this would be to make the modifications actual modifcations instead of straight upgrades but according to Sandro it is meant to be like that.
    To get fully PvP ready the first time your friend will need approximately 100 hours of game time and then to fully mod another ship assuming you only need to grind the materials for the weapons and already got all them G5 materials for G5 DD T/CE PD/OC|A PP/TR S/TR B/HD|RA SB/TR S etc. you gotta do 10 more hours for each ship, more so if you are out of G5 materials for G5 mods such as just mentioned.

    So yeah, the barrier is quite thick but so will be your friend's ship and proportional to that the skill demand in PvE will be reduced as your PvP competition chances will increase.
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  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    You may as well have posted a "hi, have a god-rolled ship, and I'm loving it!" banner in your sig. Your nonchalance isn't convincing anyone.

    I spent the last year engineering my ship and the last 2 years honing PvP skills. I can fly circles around god-ships but I can't put a dent in their shields in less than 40 min without using mines, or if they're really bad, torps.

    Given this imba state of affairs, I cannot recommend anyone new to attempt PVP. It's basically a waste of time atm.
    I don't know if there's really a way to fix this. How can they tell who cheated and who didn't? I guess if you have grd 5 everything and have generated no grd 5 mods, it's obvious, but but what if you've done some of both? PVP is totally broken now. I think they should just change all engineer upgrades to fixed values (+5% per grade) and lose the specials, but they seem determined to soldier on with the mess they've made.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    I don't know if there's really a way to fix this. How can they tell who cheated and who didn't? I guess if you have grd 5 everything and have generated no grd 5 mods, it's obvious, but but what if you've done some of both? PVP is totally broken now. I think they should just change all engineer upgrades to fixed values (+5% per grade) and lose the specials, but they seem determined to soldier on with the mess they've made.
    If Frontier is going to address this at all (which they should if they don't want massive attrition) then it will have to be on a structural level. Flattening out the engineer power curve would be a good start.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)
    He doesn't have Horizons but will buy it this week
    PVP in a non engineered ship is suicide. Engineers totally locked pvp behind a pay wall. If you play the base game, just forget about pvp and run from any cmdr that attacks you or play solo.

  14. #44
    You'd think there are logs of transactions including paying mats to engineer.
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  15. #45
    Can this cheat scandal be used as an excuse to strip engineers out of the game?

    Because I'd be very happy to see this happen. Engineers, just like powerplay, is a module that need a complete overhaul and some serious game design thought process.

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