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Thread: Is the barrier of entry to experience PVP too high?

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by Threeofseven View Post (Source)
    Engineering almost destroyed pvp. However, not all is lost. All engineering can be done within a few hours once the engineers are unlocked. I'd recommend your friend to start mining to make sure he has the 500t jean Selene requirement because armor is very important on Fed ships.
    See I think that's ridiculous. Pre-engineers, you can PvP just fine pretty quickly.

    Now? You have to mine for hours upon hours, fly aimlessly into nowhere, just to do PvP.

    It's frankly ridiculous.

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  2. #62
    Originally Posted by Threeofseven View Post (Source)
    Engineering almost destroyed pvp. However, not all is lost. All engineering can be done within a few hours once the engineers are unlocked. I'd recommend your friend to start mining to make sure he has the 500t jean Selene requirement because armor is very important on Fed ships.
    Wrong. I have a fully engineered fleet with normal max G5 rolls. This took me a year to acquire and my shields on my Corvette are about half the value of a god-rolled Cutter. The god rolled Cutter can also boost to 470+ while my maxed Corvette can only boost to 340. The zero pip agility on the Cutter is also slightly better than the Corvette... The armor is also less on the Corvette.

    This is a real world comparison between two supposedly top tier ships each with G5 engineering. The god-gap + all other insane imbalance built into this game make PVP a joke.

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by Robert Maynard View Post (Source)
    Frontier won't publish anything - based on past practice.
    Would you really call it best practise in this case? How could you ever be sure the ship you are fighting against has legit stats?

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    Wrong. I have a fully engineered fleet with normal max G5 rolls. This took me a year to acquire and my shields on my Corvette are about half the value of a god-rolled Cutter. The god rolled Cutter can also boost to 470+ while my maxed Corvette can only boost to 340. The zero pip agility on the Cutter is also slightly better than the Corvette... The armor is also less on the Corvette.

    This is a real world comparison between two supposedly top tier ships each with G5 engineering. The god-gap + all other insane imbalance built into this game make PVP a joke.
    It's frustrating, yeah. I've acquired all of my G5 mods the hard way, and have made some pretty good rolls. Even have a few modules that are top of the heap, but nothing on the magnitude cheat mode, and definitely not all piled onto one ship.

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  5. #65
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)
    I brought a mate as wing to a CG system today. He's somewhat new, he has an A-rated Federal Assault Ship that is designed to hull tank.

    To cut the story short, we met with various opposition ship types (Viper to Corvette) but it was just so frustrating to see him get killed within 10 seconds from many of our engagements despite him being able to fly exclusively with FA-off, even by ships way lower in price.

    He doesn't have Horizons but will buy it this week, but it seems he's got a long way to go before he can enter another PVP match. He'll first have to become ally to Sirius, then get 25 modular terminals, then upgrade various modules to Grade 3, then learn to use SRV, then find unknown fragments, and then grind Prof Palin. And that's to access to just 1 module.

    We're not even talking about finding the materials and data that is required to upgrade the modules yet.

    So starting from an A-rated ship, it may take him months before he can start PVP.

    Is the barrier of entry too high?

    Aye. The Barrier for this is actually damn high.
    For PvP you need to have a Fairly Wide Range of Engineered Parts to have any Chance of Competing in PvP.
    Dont expect to have a PvP Ready Ship under 1-2 Weeks of Grinding Materials.

    Pls note this does not Include you providing the Credits for actually having the Ship with proper Equipment.



    I honestly think they should Seperate normal Elite and Horizon Players in Multiplayer so they dont meet for PvP.
    As its really an very Unequal Fight.
    This is even more true because NPCs dont use Engineered Equipment either. So even if you got Horizons it takes quite a while to learn or to read up what Upgrades you even need for Combat.


    Its one of the Reasons which keeps me away from PvP as well.
    I am just too lazy to do the Grinding.
    Lately I am just moving a bit towards it again because I can now Store Equipment. Meaning I can at least do other things with my Ship without changing Equipment and then Grinding for the stuff again.
    But even so the requirements to do PvP properly are pretty high and pretty time consuming.
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  6. #66
    Originally Posted by Sunleader View Post (Source)
    I honestly think they should Seperate normal Elite and Horizon Players in Multiplayer so they dont meet for PvP.
    Why should Horizons players that don't engage in PvP be penalised by the removal of those players that only have the base game (and vice-versa)?

  7. #67
    1) Cap secondaries to the blueprint

    PvP restored. 1 step.

    Don't NOT PvP because there are god ships out there. I really hate that they are out there but it's not stopping me. Fighting unbeatable ships is probably only going to make me better

  8. #68
    Unless FD releases an official statement stating that all rolls achieved via the exploit has been removed, the suspicion of cheating using this particular exploit will not go away and Open will suffer.

    It really is that simple.
    Fly dangerous, CMDR Macros Black

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    The fact that they're aren't 15 mega threads about this says to me that most of the community used this or some other engineering exploit to some degree. Which means the game is effectively broken for new players now. I would not recommend anyone new join the game at this time unfortunately.
    qualify that with 'except solo or a private group' maybe?
    Nan iChîr Gelair

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by Smecca is BMFE View Post (Source)
    1) Cap secondaries to the blueprint

    PvP restored.
    Agree.

    Originally Posted by Smecca is BMFE View Post (Source)
    Don't NOT PvP because there are god ships out there. I really hate that they are out there but it's not stopping me. Fighting unbeatable ships is probably only going to make me better
    False. Fighting unbeatable ships rewards and validates people's choice to cheat. Don't do it. Let them get bored. That is the only collective action punishment we can offer since Frontier is sitting on their hands.

    Why else would the cheaters be rushing to the forums to defend cheat as "global" or "irrelevant". Because they are already finding it a little harder to find people to fight. Keep up the pressure until they relent, and join the movement to have these mods removed from the game.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Robert Maynard View Post (Source)
    Why should Horizons players that don't engage in PvP be penalised by the removal of those players that only have the base game (and vice-versa)?
    Counterquestion.
    Why do you Punish Elite Dangerous Players who dont own Horizons by having them Compete in a Universe thats set for those who got Horizons?


    I dont really see how it would be a Punishment for Horizons Players which dont engage in PvP.
    I mean for those who do PvP it would be a big loss of Easy Kills. But for those who dont do PvP. I dont really see how it would Penalize them.

    Its not like you need to do a 100% Forced Separation.
    Friends and Wingmembers could still come into the same Instance regardless. So they can still play Together.

    Just in Open. The Game should put Non Horizon Players and Horizon Players into Seperate Instances. So they usually Only Meet other Players which have the same Options.
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  12. #72
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    "Established and respected PvPers."

    I've seen this too, and I can help sum up who these particular PvPers are: the one's banging on ad nauseum about the negative impact of the exploit going on for so long unchecked.

    In other words: if you're a serious PvPer and you're not here screaming from the rafters about the damage caused by the exploit, but instead remaining silent or even trying to minimize the import of the exploit, then you are suspected of using it. To put it mildly.
    Well, to be honest if an individual used said exploit and has done well, or is hopes to do well and has invested heavily, would they admit to using those exploits? With frontier possibly looking fer a few heads on spikes, I imagine they probably wouldnt want very much said about it at all.

    This is one of those times when ye stop and wonder why the forums are so quiet lately...doesnt look good from any angle really, but Im cool personally because I play in solo so I dont have to worry about grinding them. Cant use the exploits if ye never use engineers in the first place. One can laugh at the current scenario though and say, told ya this would happen but nobody listened...or something to that effect ^
    M8 who ye talking to?
    Nobody.
    So who am I talking to?
    Me.
    Wha....?

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by Sunleader View Post (Source)
    Counterquestion.
    Why do you Punish Elite Dangerous Players who dont own Horizons by having them Compete in a Universe thats set for those who got Horizons?
    Compete?

    Originally Posted by Sunleader View Post (Source)
    I dont really see how it would be a Punishment for Horizons Players which dont engage in PvP.
    I mean for those who do PvP it would be a big loss of Easy Kills. But for those who dont do PvP. I dont really see how it would Penalize them.
    It would reduce the number of friendlies that the non-PvP players would be able to meet (and, from what Frontier have indicated, they form the majority of the player-base).

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by masCh View Post (Source)
    Is the barrier of entry to experience PVP too high?
    Of course not. Anyone can play CQC, it's designed for PvP...
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  15. #75
    Originally Posted by MacrosTheBlack View Post (Source)
    Unless FD releases an official statement stating that all rolls achieved via the exploit has been removed, the suspicion of cheating using this particular exploit will not go away and Open will suffer.

    It really is that simple.
    Have FD still not done anything? Not even a statement of intent?

    Guess they have pulled their collective heads in and perhaps think people will forget.

    This sorry state of affairs represents a deep wounding of the credibility of FD as a developer attempting anything approaching balance in an MMO.

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