Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ... 61213141516171819 LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 272

Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.
Thread: Murder hobos vs CG piracy

  1. #226
    Originally Posted by NeilF View Post (Source)
    During SC?

    ie: A mechanic lets you connect on during SC and you carefully leech cargo out Will the trader spot the signs of you being there?
    Or in hyperspace - those Thargoid pickpockets are the worst pirates of all time!

    Originally Posted by NeilF View Post (Source)
    I see two main reasons for piracy not work:-

    1) The mechanics themselves are at fault. eg:-
    • Hatch breakers cannot be scaled for purpose. eg: With your piracy Anaconda got an pirate a full T9. How well does the hatch breaker scale to that?
    • The hatch breaker itself has been dumbed down to point and click. At least add some skill back in by requiring the targets shield to be down to 1 bar or less.
    • Then collection. You carefully use the hatch breaker and you're left with a 20km long trail of cargo, which takes ages to pick up. Bundle it (eg: 3T of Palladium), or speed up limpets or allow limpets to collect more than 1T at a time.
    • Security services turn up like there 3 lines of code behind them. ie: Too predictable. The response time should be far more random, with a change of a speed up if the victims hull is hit. And maybe again if their hull reaches 50% for example?
    • Piracy to too poorly paid.


    2) PvP:-
    • The game itself needs to help push CMDRs into each other for actual reasons. The game needs to orchestrate obvious goto "hotspots". eg: A particularly profitable trade run generated by the BGS, so pirates can then have an obvious set of places to pirate. Note: With deeper piracy gameplay such as reputations, missions could even be given out for these "hot spots" to steal cargo and return it to X and therefore get a bigger pay out.
    • CGs dedicated to OPEN could also orchestrate sitautions ("hotspots"). eg: Sign up to deliver X to Y. Sign up to steal X from CMDRs going to Y.
    So let's structure it a bit further and combine our points:
    1. Moment to moment tactical gameplay problems
      1. No "skill gameplay" around piracy beyond interdiction minigame
      2. Piracy doesn't scale beyond a handful of canisters
        1. Moving target dumps over wide area
        2. Hatch breakers' dump rate is too slow
        3. Targetted hatch destruction for mass dumping not practical without disabling drives
        4. Authority response times too short and too constant. No way to influence them by eg basing them on distance to nearest authority vessel or authority port in Supercruise, creating a distraction elsewhere in the system.
        5. Large ships' cargo will exceed the 100 canister per p2p session object limit and be lost. Consider clustered/large capacity canisters

    2. Strategic movement problems
      1. Supercruise flight lacks subtlety, differences between ships' performance are minimal, so the tail chase and interdiction is the only tactic. Consider making mass affect SC acceleration, so over short distances small ships are faster and have more options.
      2. There's no stealth mechanic in Supercruise. Consider making mass * velocity affect SC visibility range. This would allow ambush tactics and a tradeoff between speed and stealth.

    3. Economic problems
      1. Too poorly paid
        1. In comparison to other currently equally available activities. Consider limiting availability of other activities, eg closed trade cartels?
        2. Anarchy economies are too similar to economies in functioning polities, you might as well just trade

      2. Fencing loot is as risky in an anarchy to the pirate 'in his own home' as it is to a clean trader entering the system
      3. Conversely, risk to a well armed clean trader in an anarchy is insufficient to deter just trading there.
      4. BGS economy is too homogenous to create interesting hotspots
      5. Communication of current hotspots is patchy
      6. CGs are underused to motivate piracy as an interim measure
      7. Piracy missions lack variety and high volume ones are too difficult/impossible due to points in 1)


    Who knows, maybe Design are still following this thread?

  2. #227
    Originally Posted by wstephenson View Post (Source)
    Or in hyperspace - those Thargoid pickpockets are the worst pirates of all time!



    So let's structure it a bit further and combine our points:
    1. Moment to moment tactical gameplay problems
      1. No "skill gameplay" around piracy beyond interdiction minigame
      2. Piracy doesn't scale beyond a handful of canisters
        1. Moving target dumps over wide area
        2. Hatch breakers' dump rate is too slow
        3. Targetted hatch destruction for mass dumping not practical without disabling drives
        4. Authority response times too short and too constant. No way to influence them by eg basing them on distance to nearest authority vessel or authority port in Supercruise, creating a distraction elsewhere in the system.
        5. Large ships' cargo will exceed the 100 canister per p2p session object limit and be lost. Consider clustered/large capacity canisters

    2. Strategic movement problems
      1. Supercruise flight lacks subtlety, differences between ships' performance are minimal, so the tail chase and interdiction is the only tactic. Consider making mass affect SC acceleration, so over short distances small ships are faster and have more options.
      2. There's no stealth mechanic in Supercruise. Consider making mass * velocity affect SC visibility range. This would allow ambush tactics and a tradeoff between speed and stealth.

    3. Economic problems
      1. Too poorly paid
        1. In comparison to other currently equally available activities. Consider limiting availability of other activities, eg closed trade cartels?
        2. Anarchy economies are too similar to economies in functioning polities, you might as well just trade

      2. Fencing loot is as risky in an anarchy to the pirate 'in his own home' as it is to a clean trader entering the system
      3. Conversely, risk to a well armed clean trader in an anarchy is insufficient to deter just trading there.
      4. BGS economy is too homogenous to create interesting hotspots
      5. Communication of current hotspots is patchy
      6. CGs are underused to motivate piracy as an interim measure
      7. Piracy missions lack variety and high volume ones are too difficult/impossible due to points in 1)


    Who knows, maybe Design are still following this thread?
    Excellent points and you hit my #1 issue with pirating:
    It just doesn't make economic sense in its current form (and so comes across quite gamey) or in any probable PvP implementation.

    Pirating missions vs NPC's could make it worth the money (and make some sense) but folks seem to want it in a PvP format not PvE.

  3. #228
    The lack of balance isn't with the game but your lack of pilotting skills.
    Oh dear.. got to work, sat at desk.. elite forum on the left screen... coffee in hand, and I get a 'git gud' post..

    Originally Posted by wstephenson View Post (Source)
    Interesting idea; but where would piracy take place for the victim not to notice it? Around stations?
    I was thinking more along the lines of the gentle approach rather than the panic inducing boom boom, crackle, warning warning, damage, damage.. emergency.. boom boom, crack crack, split, warning: heat damage... crackle boom boom crash, bang bang.. warning warning... ... that happens when you're attacked..

    I'm thinking the victim is less likely to throw a panic fit if none of the above happens.. if they get interdicted, then there's a slight judder from something.... the victim, lines up, FSDs off.. thinking phew I got away unscratched.. but behind, the piracy is complete; and there lies 34t of cargo, floating in space. That is a painless robbery right there.. no bloodshed, no murder, no panic, no combat logging, no crime, no karma hit.. it's a gentle, painless bite, little bit of anesthetic, and the pirate is richer as a result. No guns, no macros, just a little pin , and a cargohold of plunder.

    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    If you're the kind of player who thinks that clogging is an option that's on the table if the situation warrants, then I'm going to save you some trouble: Fdev will never ever implement a system that makes Open completely " ganker free" so don't even bother. It's never going to happen.
    It's not about me at all. It's about encouraging people into open.. encouraging MORE people into open.

    Like it or not clogging is always an option. Not playing is an option. People take desperate measures sometimes in real life to, putting off the consequence to the fact that ANYTHING is more desirable than the situation they currently face. The art is to not put people in a situation where they face such choices. Choices ultimately bound by the fact that the momentary consequence of not doing it has too much of a high price.

    Have I combat logged before? nope. Would I ever combat log if I thought the situation was unfair, against the spirit of the game, and my loss would be a waste of weeks of game time? Yes yes I would. Banned account or not, I would have a good reason, and I'd be more than happy 'discussing' it with an FDEV representative if it was escalated. Would I combat log in the above scenario if I thought C&P and karma rules would rip my attacker a new one, and avenge my murder by applying equal and brutal repercussions? Hell no! I'd let the murder happen knowing full well that he'll be worse off than me, and also lose weeks of gameplay due to in game hinderances that'll make him regret killing me in the first place

    Ergo, if the justice system is FAIR then we're all balanced up. If the justice system pats the attacker on the back, then 'options' exist to even the books, even if they're against T&C and game rules.

    Then one assumes you're in open anyway. I avoid facing the above scenario, by avoiding open. But for me to not avoid open, i would like to endorse a karma / C&P system that doesn't make me feel like a victim by clicking on that game mode, playing my chosen non combative style of game play.

    ...as you were, folks... as you were!


  4. #229
    Originally Posted by Riverside View Post (Source)
    However the situation you describe with a kind of 'pirate rank' or 'criminal reputation' does already exist with the cold war between superpowers. You can be a hero to the Empire (for example) and do your nefarious activities in non-Empire space.
    This just needs to be tied in to the behaviour of randomly spawned pirates in criminal systems and use minor faction reputation:

    Example: you have 20T of Illegal Goods and are Friendly with the ruling Anarchy faction. The randomly spawned pirate patrolling in Supercruise ignores you and lets you dock at the black market station to sell your booty. Yarr!

    Example: you jump into the same system in a Type 7 with 200T of legal Liquor and are Friendly as above. A randomly spawned pirate can't resist (profit: high, risk: low) and shakes you down anyway.

    Example: you jump into the same system in a Type 7 with 200T of legal Liquor and are Allied as above. A randomly spawned foreign pirate can't resist (profit: high, risk: medium) but a bunch of NPC local pirates jump in to your session and defend you.

    Example: you perform the same run in an Anaconda loaded for bear while Allied with the ruling Anarchy. The pirate ignores you, you make a good profit, but due to the low pop and low demand, repeating this run nets you only marginal profit next time.

    Of course, NPC pirates use clairvoyance to know targets' reputation and cargoes. It would be nice if there was a way to at least see a mark's reputation in supercruise so that players can make the same risk/reward decisions.

  5. #230
    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    1) Sure, the Goid wrecks are in lawless systems. The proposed Karma system will take note of who is blowing up what. Over time, the gankers should find the repercussions beginning to affect their style of play.
    I really hope that "blowing up clean ships" doesn't include "blowing up ships in a lawless system" - that would have all sorts of counter-productive consequences.

    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    2) Prevent a human/Goid war? This is really bad excuse.
    As I said in my post, I'm sure the majority of those there are just there for the convenient hotspot, and no-one cares about the backstory of the person shooting at them anyway. *But* in other places and other hotspots Frontier have previously run (or assisted with) events which encourage such "story-based" killing (e.g. opposed trade CGs, the Salome event) where firing on clean targets was entirely justifiable.

    I conclude from that that Frontier are not opposed to story-based killings, and from the point of view of the target, there would be little difference in this case.

    (As in point 1, story-based killings in lawful systems would nevertheless have C&P consequences because they're still illegal, and that would be a good thing)

    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    3) Frontier know people will visit them - and besides which, last time I looked, 130-odd of them have been discovered so far, which is a lot of ground for the gankers to cover. Nevertheless, the initial site was visited by swarms of explorers and For Science! types, a lot of whom went in Open and surprise surprise the rabid player-killers arrived and just started shooting anything that moved. Sad.
    Indeed - my conclusion from this is that Frontier are just not that worried about the first wave of visitors to the first set of sites in Open ending up having to deal with the killers. It's now just a few days later and you can probably go to several of them without meeting anyone unexpected at all, hostile or friendly, so Frontier also don't have to worry about people not being able to see the structures they spent the effort on.

  6. #231
    I don't like how it is now.

    Follow this kind of discussion for some time It's very unfair to a new players and players who don't like to fight at all.

    The Galaxy is big but people tend to go to the same places and the difference between trader, explorer and combat ships are huge.

    who get killed loses everything (rebuy, cargo, some missions cam fail, fines,data, time ), who kills is cool dude in wing of 4 celebrating

    others destruction and swearing to the 4 winds against combat log wracking their play style.

    The message that FD is sending to the community is only one play style matters.

    We don't have the right to have peaceful play style in open play.

  7. #232
    Originally Posted by Ian Doncaster View Post (Source)
    my conclusion from this is that Frontier are just not that worried about the first wave of visitors to the first set of sites in Open ending up having to deal with the killers.
    Those people were leaving their ships on the surface while out in their SRV in open. That is just asking for a Darwin award. Survivng in open is easy you just have to not make stupid mistakes.

  8. #233
    Originally Posted by 4gui4 View Post (Source)
    I don't like how it is now.

    Follow this kind of discussion for some time It's very unfair to a new players and players who don't like to fight at all.

    The Galaxy is big but people tend to go to the same places and the difference between trader, explorer and combat ships are huge.

    who get killed loses everything (rebuy, cargo, some missions cam fail, fines,data, time ), who kills is cool dude in wing of 4 celebrating

    others destruction and swearing to the 4 winds against combat log wracking their play style.

    The message that FD is sending to the community is only one play style matters.

    We don't have the right to have peaceful play style in open play.
    It's easy to avoid a gank in an unarmed trade ship, most are just to lazy to learn evasion tactics and fly straight down the shipping lane because their motivation is credits per hour and don't like having to spend a little bit of extra time taking a safer but less direct route that takes a bit longer.

  9. #234
    Originally Posted by Pyrobee View Post (Source)
    Those people were leaving their ships on the surface while out in their SRV in open. That is just asking for a Darwin award. Survivng in open is easy you just have to not make stupid mistakes.
    Stupid mistakes like entering any station with someone in a Cobra and Reverb Cascade mines. No way to avoid. Thrusters and Shield Gen offline, your only legal option is LITERALLY the 15s timer - and the dude had the NERVE to be upset for me using it!

  10. #235
    Originally Posted by Herbrand View Post (Source)
    Stupid mistakes like entering any station with someone in a Cobra and Reverb Cascade mines. No way to avoid. Thrusters and Shield Gen offline, your only legal option is LITERALLY the 15s timer - and the dude had the NERVE to be upset for me using it!
    Er, or avoid it until the station takes care of it?

  11. #236
    Originally Posted by Soopyyy View Post (Source)
    Er, or avoid it until the station takes care of it?
    How do you avoid it if you only know it's happening once you're in and it's too late?

  12. #237
    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    How do you avoid it if you only know it's happening once you're in and it's too late?
    If they have mined the slot you will be able to see them and if you are following them in it's best to have looked at their weapons loadout and it's safe to assume that mines on a cobra will be modded for reverb casscade.

  13. #238
    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    How do you avoid it if you only know it's happening once you're in and it's too late?
    Keep your eyes open and don't watch Netflix while playing?

  14. #239
    Originally Posted by Soopyyy View Post (Source)
    Keep your eyes open and don't watch Netflix while playing?
    Now you're being unreasonable

  15. #240
    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    Now you're being unreasonable
    Wouldn't it be nice to have a configurable alert system, so that when you are off in the boonies and a new contact appears, a blooming great siren goes off until manually silenced when you have assessed the threat, instead of the subtle click of the message window? I try to get to new discoveries as soon as possible, in Open, and there's a 50% chance that a new contact is looking to blow up my lightly armed Exploraconda.

Page 16 of 19 FirstFirst ... 61213141516171819 LastLast