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Thread: Murder hobos vs CG piracy

  1. #121
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander PeLucheuh!

    As part of the post 2.4 core game play rewview, we may be be looking at criminal roles to see if we can buff them up.

    Also, loading screen tips are a good idea.
    If you can manage to make piracy of NPCs in particular competitive with other professions, in terms of Cr/hour then you are probably looking at a winner. The combination of proper consideration for ship config (not a pure combat), proper planning (target systems economy, black markets locations, security levels etc) and tools/tactics (limpets, module targeting, avoiding destruction etc) makes piracy (NPC target or otherwise) to have the potential to be one of the deepest and most gratifying professions out there.

  2. #122
    Originally Posted by Zaphod Hawke View Post (Source)
    If your rank actually meant anything, you might have a point. In reality though, if someone is ganking your Cutter, they're probably not some low ranking "nobody" in the eyes of the empire or federation. So maybe it would be an act of war... but your title grants you nothing but access to a ship, and you just lost that.

    Good thing the empire doesn't hold you accountable for such losses.

    Now there is an idea.

    Lose your precious rank locked ship? Lose rank.

    It makes perfect sense.

    Would make a good argument to encourage more PvErs into OPEN mode!

    Be someone's content... role play seal... make net losses of 70m credits on a standard trading run... and as a bonus; you get to lose your access to a Cutter at the same time - it's the salt extractors turbo mode!

    Unfortunately you are right in that rank is meaningless. Would be interesting if you lost proportional rank in a faction if you murder someone in that faction.

  3. #123
    It's pretty easy to discern between pirates and murder hobo's using a programmed system.

    If(killedOtherShip() == true)
    {
    ApplyMurderHoboTag()
    {

    else
    {
    IsPirate = true
    }


    Pirates never WANT to kill someone, they want the cargo. Killing them applies a larger bounty than just assault.

    It's not to say your a murder hobo if you ever kill a trader while pirating them, sometimes, people just go crazy and wont stop shooting at you, and sometimes, one too many missiles hit thier ship when your trying to take out their thrusters.

    But, you should have a WAY smaller kill count than a murder hobo.

  4. #124
    Originally Posted by Madrax573 View Post (Source)
    But it is just a game....when it become more than a game you've become too invested in it to look at it clearly. Thats one defining trait of an addict.

    The best players IMO are the ones who do realise that it's just a game but take on a persona and play to that, be it a trader, bounty hunter, pirate or maniacal killer but can still shrug and say 'it's just a game' at the end of their session regardless of how well it went or if they lost it all.

    As for upper limits to the danger? Well I reckon there should be places you just don't go unless you are a fully competent pilot with a blinged out ship and a couple of equally competent buddies along for the ride. As it stand now I am not afraid to go anywhere in my lightly modified Cobra IV.
    I wonder how players would respond to a DiD (Dead is Dead) version of ED. Meaning since it's only a game, if they are killed then they have to start over from a stock sidewinder and starter cash. I doubt there would be much interest would there. And I only mention this as a stark comparison to it's only a game. Which it is but .....

    Chief

    R.E.D. (RETIRED AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS)

  5. #125
    Originally Posted by ChiefRedCloud View Post (Source)
    I wonder how players would respond to a DiD (Dead is Dead) version of ED. Meaning since it's only a game, if they are killed then they have to start over from a stock sidewinder and starter cash. I doubt there would be much interest would there. And I only mention this as a stark comparison to it's only a game. Which it is but .....

    Chief
    I consider DiD Elite: Dangerous, to be an entirely masochistic concept.
    Elite Dangerous short stories:
    https://voidstarblog.wordpress.com/

  6. #126
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    Hopefully we'll be going in to more depth with karma discussions in the future.

    Hello Commander Ozram!

    Initially, we want to use karma to apply appropriate, in-game consequences for contentious player-to-player interactions, such as ramming, seal clubbing and combat logging. The kinds of things we're talking about here might include: docking rights being revoked at high security systems, increased re-buy costs, additional, highly engineered bounty hunters.

    It's important to note that a karma system is not a panacea, nor will it be instant - it's a way of building up intelligence over time to come to a reasoned decision on player intent.

    Hello Commander Genar-Hofoen!

    Well, we're going to need the somersaulting karma system for a number of activities, so adding in "griefing" seems like a reasonable cost/reward if we can get the numbers in a decent position.

    However, the idea of a declaration of piracy is no less legitimate, as we think it's a cool concept in its own right (plus, it would very likely be possible to feed it into an active karma system anyway)! But to do this well, I think we're going to need NPC comms.
    If you're going to use terms such as "griefing", it would be helpful to everyone if there were official and clear guidelines on what constitutes said "griefing".

    Many players seem to think any interaction they find undesirable is "griefing".

    That said, I too have run across players in fully engineered ships, being completely obnoxious to everyone they killed. But I don't think this is as common as some would suggest.

    I'll agree that being on the receiving end of such behavior can be disheartening, but if all else fails, it's also report-able; and if warranted... actionable.

    Besides, these guys will often change their tune completely once they are outmatched.

    Also, if stations in high-sec are going to restrict docking privileges based on reputation, the layout of alternative systems should be re-vamped to not completely shut affected players out.

    Perhaps a shadowy alternative to the Pilots Federadtion would be appropriate.

    I welcome increased difficulty based on player actions, but fear that players wishing for punitive action rather than actual gameplay fixes have been driving and dominating this discussion.

  7. #127
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander urth!

    If you are not destroying ships, it's our intention that the karma system should not really affect you. Most likely we will want to track damage as well, but in general, if you're reasonably effective at taking out drives and using limpets, only the normal crime rules should trigger (you'll be subject to a bounty).

    When it comes to "griefing", ship destruction, catastrophic damage and significant disparity between ship strength and player stats are the kinds of things that karma is interested in.

    If we end up punishing the behaviour you describe when you pirate, we will be doing it wrong.
    So just so you're aware, since I'm part of The Code, this will hurt piracy. Traders will run more because if we shoot them we will get a bounty. So why would a trader comply with us?

  8. This is the last staff post in this thread. #128
    Sandro Sammarco is offline
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous
    Frontier Employee
    Hello Commander Lateralus

    Collection issues will definitely be a significant part of the review process for piracy, whether it means improving limpets or having some way to slow down a free moving vessel (I have to say, I personally *really* like the idea of this - some form of tether to literally drag a helpless ship to a stop. We'll need to chew this over).

    Also, boring caveat time no ETA or guarantees, We'll have a lot of ground to cover.

  9. #129
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Lateralus

    Collection issues will definitely be a significant part of the review process for piracy, whether it means improving limpets or having some way to slow down a free moving vessel (I have to say, I personally *really* like the idea of this - some form of tether to literally drag a helpless ship to a stop. We'll need to chew this over).
    We'd also need a way of countering that somehow.

    Orbiting inside the Roche Limit of sanity

  10. #130
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Lateralus

    Collection issues will definitely be a significant part of the review process for piracy, whether it means improving limpets or having some way to slow down a free moving vessel (I have to say, I personally *really* like the idea of this - some form of tether to literally drag a helpless ship to a stop. We'll need to chew this over).

    Also, boring caveat time no ETA or guarantees, We'll have a lot of ground to cover.
    As limpets have thruster on them, couldn't they be used to slow down craft. Disable the drives, fire the hatchbreaker limpet, which also acts as a brake to the ship (using it's own thruster to slow the ship). It has no effect on ships with an active drive as they are not powerful enough to counteract it.

  11. #131
    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    We'd also need a way of countering that somehow.
    You're spinning through space with your engines shot out. It's too late.

  12. #132
    Originally Posted by Airsucker View Post (Source)
    So just so you're aware, since I'm part of The Code, this will hurt piracy. Traders will run more because if we shoot them we will get a bounty. So why would a trader comply with us?
    You already get a bounty if you shoot them. A real pirate should know this...

    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    We'd also need a way of countering that somehow.

    ECM?

  13. #133
    Wait.

    As far as slowing down drifting ships go - are the disabled ships permanently drifting as if they're in FA Off? Is it not possible to slow that ship down using your own ship (i.e. getting in front of the drifting ship's direction of travel and carefully slowing them to a halt?)

    Or is their drift something which can't be slowed down in that fashion?

  14. #134
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    ... or having some way to slow down a free moving vessel (I have to say, I personally *really* like the idea of this - some form of tether to literally drag a helpless ship to a stop. We'll need to chew this over).
    If you do make a tether; please make it generic, and not just a pirate/combat item. As us Fuel Rats would love some means to gently drag/push CMDRs about, when they get stuck in odd places, or ships with unbootable drives.

  15. #135
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    As limpets have thruster on them, couldn't they be used to slow down craft. Disable the drives, fire the hatchbreaker limpet, which also acts as a break to the ship (using it's own thruster to slow the ship). It has no effect on ships with an active drive as they are not powerful enough to counteract it.
    I like this idea. It also allows more scope for the pirate to be 'going equipped', so easier to identify on the scanner from a solid hunk of armour PvP meta ship.

    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    Wait.

    As far as slowing down drifting ships go - are the disabled ships permanently drifting as if they're in FA Off? Is it not possible to slow that ship down using your own ship (i.e. getting in front of the drifting ship's direction of travel and carefully slowing them to a halt?)

    Or is their drift something which can't be slowed down in that fashion?
    I've not tried but that seems like a near impossible manoeuvre to pull off

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