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Thread: Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

  1. #16
    Originally Posted by DNA-Decay View Post (Source)
    If you haven't seen this thread - you need to now:
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...oshop-concepts!

    the user ToSoCo has started only five threads.

    The thread was locked this because it was 14 pages of "This is awesome do this" to bump the thread
    Terrific proposals for exploration, science missions, all sorts of really cool non- combat stuff that the game NEEDS.

    I suggest you examine the work of ToSoCo. For locking that thread.

    I get why, just Frontier need to see it again sometimes.


    And YES you can have my big scanner and my Elite rank, just make exploration good.
    I had seen it, there must be one of my replies in there - I didn't know of the thread's ghastly fate though, that was heavy handed.
    Those were great ideas, even greater that they just seemed more plausible than just writing them. Still, it seemed really too advanced for E's current technical capabilities

  2. #17
    My first discoveries were done using the parallax method without an advanced discovery scanner.
    If you wanted to become Elite then it would take forever but it was a fun mechanic.

    Perhaps a way round what you are talking about would be for new items to need different methods.
    E.g: keep what we have for large bodies but comets need to be found another way.

    Would like to see detailed surface scans bringing up more interesting topographical maps too - e.g: mineral deposit concentrations.
    Legalise Onionhead!

  3. #18
    Give up infinite honk?

    I'm not sure. I'm lazy. Lol

    I did have an idea once, but never posted it (for once), about honking only finds stars or large gas giants in your system, and nothing else.

    You then need to scan the star or gas giant to reveal anything that might be orbiting it.

    Scanning the primary star will only reveal main bodies, not their moons. To find out if a planet has a moon, you need to scan the planet. Or simply fly close enough to see them. (Auto resolve)

    The different classes of scanner just determine how far you can honk a star from.

    Was an unfinished idea. And still is. Lol

    CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

  4. #19
    In a heartbeat, I would give up what we have now for exploration! it is the only career string I haven't got Elite in and I don't see myself getting it at this current iteration of exploration. It is SOOOOO dull! I love the ideas in the OP, perhaps adding in an suggestion that when a new player starts the game, they can see the bubble on the galaxy map with a fading out of the systems as they go beyond the bubble. Each foray into the unknown opens up more of the galaxy map. Hints, tips and missions could lead a player in a certain direction that will unfold as they go until they get to the destination and actually discover something.
    Combat ELITE █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ Trade ELITE █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ Exploration RANGER █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ CQC - What?
    The Syndicate - "No Kings, no Queens, no Tyrants....Just Gold, Money and Profit"

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by LJITimate View Post (Source)
    so when you are making a long trip somewhere. one of the reasons I don't go mad is because I know ill get some cash at the end of it from using the discovery scanner while my fsd is charging, if you make it so you have to spend ages on one system, that is tedious, maybe get some extra credits if you properly scan each individual planet or something but don't get rid of what's there
    It depends on what you intend to do. Maybe that from getting from point A to point B you'd still do that with a more limited range (let's say 50 000ls?), you'd still gain some cash... But what if the systems you'd stay in could give you 15 times their actual current value if they were properly "explored"? All a matter of balance in my book. But reading through the thread, I realise feelings are mixed as to what is exploring gameplay - to me it would be much more about working towards secret discoveries in the unknown, things that could get passed you, but it may really be just my kink.

    edit : Or not, thank you guys, I was starting to feel a bit lonely

  6. #21
    I'd keep the honk - after all it only points out the location of objects in the current system.

    The next step would be to scan each stellar body - this should only provide general information regarding location, size, general composition and mass.

    The next step would be more involved, requiring mapping the surface of each stellar body. As this could potentially be a time consuming exercise, it would be nice to be able to leave a satellite to do this while you leave to scan and set up satellites on other bodies.

    Lastly, the mapping process might identify geological (or anomalous) features worth further investigation, and require a surface geological survey.

    This could be actioned either by using the SRV (hopefully a geological survey model capable of taking core samples) or maybe by sending a down a probe.

    Once atmospheric planets with ecosystems are introduced, we could also perform ecological surveys, and take samples of various life forms, from micro-organisms to flora and fauna.

    If each tier of the above exploration hierarchy has a reward, you can then let explorers doing as much or as little as they are comfortable with.
    Frontier could then introduce a dynamic mission generator to "plug the gaps" - i.e. Universal Cartographics can generate survey missions for other commanders to fulfil.

  7. #22
    Originally Posted by Fost View Post (Source)
    My first discoveries were done using the parallax method without an advanced discovery scanner.
    If you wanted to become Elite then it would take forever but it was a fun mechanic.
    I've also done that. That felt so cool. But it could use tools to help you achieve that. There must be an equilibrium between godly instant scanning technology and 15th century visual navigation techniques...

    Originally Posted by Spyro Jance View Post (Source)
    I'd keep the honk - after all it only points out the location of objects in the current system.

    The next step would be to scan each stellar body - this should only provide general information regarding location, size, general composition and mass.

    The next step would be more involved, requiring mapping the surface of each stellar body. As this could potentially be a time consuming exercise, it would be nice to be able to leave a satellite to do this while you leave to scan and set up satellites on other bodies.

    Lastly, the mapping process might identify geological (or anomalous) features worth further investigation, and require a surface geological survey.

    This could be actioned either by using the SRV (hopefully a geological survey model capable of taking core samples) or maybe by sending a down a probe.

    Once atmospheric planets with ecosystems are introduced, we could also perform ecological surveys, and take samples of various life forms, from micro-organisms to flora and fauna.

    If each tier of the above exploration hierarchy has a reward, you can then let explorers doing as much or as little as they are comfortable with.
    Frontier could then introduce a dynamic mission generator to "plug the gaps" - i.e. Universal Cartographics can generate survey missions for other commanders to fulfil.
    cool thoughts also.

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by Godsailsaqueen View Post (Source)
    Now that the time has come (or has been announced, let's say) for the reworking of core mechanics, and getting them closer to the original concepts...
    Let's talk exploration.

    Would you be ready to give up on your infinite scanner range and exhaustive galaxy map for more rewarding probing / navigation gameplay? Rewarding in terms of money/rank/whatever else of course, but also in terms of feeling. Of course you can't be left in the dark and just downgrade to the intermediate discovery scanner now - it would feel like artifical handicap. But there could be modules that detect unfound gravitationnal perturbations... probes to launch that would detect planetary bodies and their surfaces, even system-scaled scanners ala SRV... To an extent, there could be secret systems in galmap, for you to find, with one-knows-what-tool.

    I reckon some things can't be changed. You can't remove something the player base is used to - for nothing at least. I'm just trying to know if that particular godly honk and the ease of discovery is that important to you. Not saying exploring is easy though - but it's more a matter of endurance, most of the time, than navigational flair (ok, tbh there is true navigationnal flair in certain expeditions reaching really isolated stars).

    Your thoughts?
    I think replacing the ADS is a terrible idea to be honest, I'm sorry. It would slow down the exploration by putting an artificial time sink that if you look at it in terms of comparing it with the galaxy size and number of systems out there makes it looks disproportionate and almost impossible (think: 400 billion systems, we've discovered a 0.01% even with ADS).

    For me personally it would make me stop exploring entirely and potentially stop playing the game. My exploration style is to reach extreme ends of the galaxy and navigate in scarce areas using jumponium. Replacing the ADS will essentially force me to spend a lot of time in each system, even the ones I don't care about. Add to that the scanning (especially when I need to gather jumponium) and suddenly the feeling that you are not going anywhere is prevalent and that will kill the joy from exploration.

    I think instead of taking away an existing mechanic, it's better if you enhance other mechanics. For example planetary exploration can be enhanced greatly and many people have offered very nice solutions and proposals.
    Cmdr Aura Lorell (Active) -- Cmdr Rhea Lorell (Inactive)
    J-Circumnavigation - A Journey at the Edge

  9. #24
    If it was limited to 100,000ls I probably wouldn't care, I'm not gonna fly that far for anything tbh.

    If there was something like a telescope module where you could look at other nearby stars and see-how far away they are, their star type, maybe how many large bodies are orbiting it- I would be all over that. It may need additional fleshing out for gameplay.

    Speaking of gameplay, how about exploration missions, i.e go to this sector and scan 20 stars, any terraformable worlds or ELWs will give a bonus
    1st CMDR 3000ly below the Galactic Plane-6th September 3302
    3rd-ish CMDR 3000ly above the Galactic Plane-18th February 3303
    Deep Recon X

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Rhea Lorell View Post (Source)
    I think replacing the ADS is a terrible idea to be honest, I'm sorry. It would slow down the exploration by putting an artificial time sink that if you look at it in terms of comparing it with the galaxy size and number of systems out there makes it looks disproportionate and almost impossible (think: 400 billion systems, we've discovered a 0.01% even with ADS).

    For me personally it would make me stop exploring entirely and potentially stop playing the game. My exploration style is to reach extreme ends of the galaxy and navigate in scarce areas using jumponium. Replacing the ADS will essentially force me to spend a lot of time in each system, even the ones I don't care about. Add to that the scanning (especially when I need to gather jumponium) and suddenly the feeling that you are not going anywhere is prevalent and that will kill the joy from exploration.

    I think instead of taking away an existing mechanic, it's better if you enhance other mechanics. For example planetary exploration can be enhanced greatly and many people have offered very nice solutions and proposals.
    Thanks for your input. It wouldn't suit different styles (I'm starting to understand), and the title was willingly provocative - I do not advocate for the removing of anything, but it's cool to know the ADS is cool to most of you.

    It boils down to personal preferences - I personally don't care for reaching complete mapping of certain large areas of space, I would be more into spending more time in fewer systems. I would also like that these discovered and fully mapped systems, one at a time, would permanently contribute to galmap for everyone. It would still count exploration cash if you scanned already explored areas, but I would like a feeling of contribution to everybody's map. Ingame - no 3rd party tools.

    But I don't want to impose anything, obviously. And judging on your playstyle, it's clear you need ADS.

  11. #26
    I like having the system displayed in it's entirety with a simple mechanism. Any mechanism that would create additional actions to just revealing what is in a system would go old pretty fast because of the amount of times it had to be applied.

    What I would like is after knowing the system, there'd be points of interest to be spotted very shortly after entering that system. That would make people stop in their tracks and go see what the anomaly is. I'd like more information, not less. I'd like in depth information about a system, not having to jump through hoops to gain a cursory understanding of it.
    Sits like a man, smiles like a reptile
    CMDR Alad Insane - Exploratory Plonker - Boldy faffing where no man has faffed before

  12. #27
    I think there should be more investigative skill required for exploration. Let's say a star has more oxygen in it's composition than the last one, it means there may be more of a possibility of water worlds or earth likes, and you scan an earth like and it has evidence of asteroid bombardment - you can be rewarded for finding life remnants in the asteroids / comets flying around.

    I know this is a lot to create and link together, but I think there should be some analysis required to go deeper.

    Also, what about filing reports about interesting bodies for further reward. So you'd have to list the elements present, or perform spectroscopy on a sun to determine the elements present from Fraunhofer lines, which you'd have to determine yourself or fly into the corona for samples which are stored in your ship to be turned over with the data. You might even have to perform mass spec on the corona samples etc. Then data on orbital velocity and other associated data. Bouncing radar off and calculating a bit based on your own SC velocity.

    A bit of analysis rather than ' just get close '. Yes that takes much longer to do (is it more grind?) But magnify the payout and people could still go honking and do basic scans for distance, but others could stay in one place and analyse the place in greater detail for the same reward. it would be nice if everything was made to be scanned in detail, with believable kit - so you can do spectroscopy on asteroids as long as you fire a laser at them or blast them, or collect rocks for mass spec or other science suite modules that you can buy.

    So, in conclusion - add a science module and have loads of systems you can put in it. Mass spec, Spectroscope, NMR, etc ect.
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=52428&dateline=1417008331

  13. #28
    Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post (Source)
    I like having the system displayed in it's entirety with a simple mechanism. Any mechanism that would create additional actions to just revealing what is in a system would go old pretty fast because of the amount of times it had to be applied.

    What I would like is after knowing the system, there'd be points of interest to be spotted very shortly after entering that system. That would make people stop in their tracks and go see what the anomaly is. I'd like more information, not less. I'd like in depth information about a system, not having to jump through hoops to gain a cursory understanding of it.
    fair point. At this point I have to say I should not have started like that hehe. Obviously the infinite honk feels a little too much served on a plate with silver rack to my personnal taste - and my solutions were primarily aimed at fixing that, which is my problem, I see . But I should have said that everything could be just a bonus from the get-go.

    Originally Posted by Crook View Post (Source)
    I think there should be more investigative skill required for exploration. Let's say a star has more oxygen in it's composition than the last one, it means there may be more of a possibility of water worlds or earth likes, and you scan an earth like and it has evidence of asteroid bombardment - you can be rewarded for finding life remnants in the asteroids / comets flying around.

    I know this is a lot to create and link together, but I think there should be some analysis required to go deeper.

    Also, what about filing reports about interesting bodies for further reward. So you'd have to list the elements present, or perform spectroscopy on a sun to determine the elements present from Fraunhofer lines, which you'd have to determine yourself or fly into the corona for samples which are stored in your ship to be turned over with the data. You might even have to perform mass spec on the corona samples etc. Then data on orbital velocity and other associated data. Bouncing radar off and calculating a bit based on your own SC velocity.

    A bit of analysis rather than ' just get close '. Yes that takes much longer to do (is it more grind?) But magnify the payout and people could still go honking and do basic scans for distance, but others could stay in one place and analyse the place in greater detail for the same reward. it would be nice if everything was made to be scanned in detail, with believable kit - so you can do spectroscopy on asteroids as long as you fire a laser at them or blast them, or collect rocks for mass spec or other science suite modules that you can buy.

    So, in conclusion - add a science module and have loads of systems you can put in it. Mass spec, Spectroscope, NMR, etc ect.
    all cool with that, we must be relatives.

  14. #29
    Considering that 99% of the stuff you find is worthless, no I would not want to change it.

    And as stated, you still have to go there to do the surface scan.

    Its fine.

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by Godsailsaqueen View Post (Source)
    Would you be ready to give up on your infinite scanner range and exhaustive galaxy map for more rewarding probing / navigation gameplay?
    Yes.

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