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Thread: Explorers : would you consider giving up on the infinite honk for...?

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by JonSnowman View Post (Source)
    Considering that 99% of the stuff you find is worthless, no I would not want to change it.

    And as stated, you still have to go there to do the surface scan.

    Its fine.
    Ok on the beginning, I wouldn't say it's "fine" though. It lacks some things - the current scanning is lackluster. Ok for not removing anything, but ok for building on that also.

  2. #32
    I'd suggest scrapping the current system and reinventing it a little.


    Rather than rely on "range" as a determining factor for scanners respective efficiency in detecting objects, instead substitute "mass"

    The minute you do this, the variations in different scanner types lend themselves to making the system far more interesting.

    Imagine for example that a basic scanner, rather than having an effective range of 1000ls instead is only able to detect objects with a mass roughly equivalent to 1 Earth mass and above, for example, or perhaps cannot reliably detect anything smaller than a star, with a 60% chance of giving a false reading entirely.

    It doesnt sound like much, but the impact on exploration would change the process for explorers. There's a benefit to actually visiting all the signals your disco scanner pulls up - you find out what is actually there and what's a blip and actually "map" the system. It could be a way to make some kinds of USS's fit in for explorers, etc etc

    The most important thing though, is that it introduces a bit of variety for explorers beyond the current "honk, scoop, jump" process.

    The only downside, however, is that I've got no idea how you'd get a payout for just honking and jumping through a system like that....

    Exploration screenshot gallery
    from the far reaches taken by CMDR DrNoesis aboard the Ethics Gradient.

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by DNA-Decay View Post (Source)
    If you haven't seen this thread - you need to now:
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...oshop-concepts!

    the user ToSoCo has started only five threads.

    The thread was locked this because it was 14 pages of "This is awesome do this" to bump the thread
    Terrific proposals for exploration, science missions, all sorts of really cool non- combat stuff that the game NEEDS.

    I suggest you examine the work of ToSoCo. For locking that thread.

    I get why, just Frontier need to see it again sometimes.


    And YES you can have my big scanner and my Elite rank, just make exploration good.
    I love his idea around the utility SRV in space and working odd jobs at an outpost to earn enough money to rebuy your ship.

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by DrNoesis View Post (Source)
    The only downside, however, is that I've got no idea how you'd get a payout for just honking and jumping through a system like that....
    *made up numbers <- whoever is reading this, please read that again*

    Honk 'n Run:
    Honk: 50,000cr + 10,000cr per estimated body in system
    Star type: up to 50,000cr
    Star rarity: up to 100,000cr (usually dependent on the area)
    Star size, density: up to 25,000cr

    Max payout on highly sought after star with 40 bodies in the system: 625,000cr

    *again, made up numbers*

    Not related to what I quoted, but my mind started to wander:
    This would require individual scanning, and is basically a lot of work; but hard work should be compensated with a large payout.

    Detailed scanning:
    Planet type: up to 100,000cr
    Planet density, composition: up to 50,000cr + up to 25,000cr bonus for rarity of planet surface sample ( land, scoop with srv, store ) ( this could be expanded to including a "science station" on board larger ships with a host of gameplay related shenanigans)
    Planet size: up to 50,000cr
    Number of natural satellites: 10,000cr each

    Other bodies ( asteroids, comets, belts ): up to 50,000cr

    Special:
    Black holes, dying stars, neutron stars: up to 100,000cr

    Discovery of ELW's: 500,000cr
    If ELW can sustain humanity (not all ELW's can support human life): 250,000cr bonus
    ELW tagged for potential human settlement: 50,000cr
    World is colonised: 600,000cr finders fee bonus.


    Intelligent life discoveries:
    Alien civilisations ( space-faring or not ): starting from 5,000,000cr
    Alien ships, buildings: starting from 10,000,000cr


    Complete and totally unrelated:

    Frontier could implement a "space lanes" system; where some lanes are more dangerous than others. It could be an explorers job to map out safe and quick space lanes.
    The mapping of a space lane could be a job acquired from a very particular type of broker at a station only found in a major factions capital system; the pay out would be huge, but the job would be extremely long and require a lot of work. The explorer would not only get a large payout when he returns to the bubble from his space lane voyage, but would also be able to cash in on his discoveries.

  5. #35
    I think I wrote this somewhere before but what I could imagine is that the infinite honk shows all the planets but just as a place-holder with no graphical texture what so ever. One needs to get at least a second level scan to reveal this. This would make hunting for ELW and WW much more interesting. Additionally I would like to see the different zones around the stars, i.e. hot, habitable, cold which give a rough indication where the different planet types can be found. A detailed scan of the star could make those zones more accurate so one would actually gain something from scanning the star.

  6. #36
    No I dont particularly like this idea as it merely locks an already basic mechanic behind an even bigger time wall to achieve the same result.

    Also, adding anything at all to exploration is building on dodgy foundations what with the beigification bugs.

    Doesnt really get any more complicated than that Im afraid ^
    M8 who ye talking to?
    Nobody.
    So who am I talking to?
    Me.
    Wha....?

  7. #37
    EVE style probing, please.

  8. #38
    I would like to repeat what I suggested in another thread, where we not only keep the infinite honk, but enable it for all scanner types. Instead, use different mechanics to differentiate scanner types:

    1. Basic Discovery Scanner: Scans very quickly (3 secs), but does not retrieve body type details. Essentially, it will only tell you how many bodies are in a system, and how far away they are. The system map would show the blank/wireframe body surfaces that we saw a few releases back.
    Use-case: Traders, bounty hunters, mercenaries. Anyone who values speed, doesn't care about the specific planet details, and spends most of their time in space anyway. Negates the need for Nav Beacon scans, and allows you to find your mission goals and StarPorts quickly.

    2. Intermediate Discovery Scanner: Scans a little bit slower (5 secs) and costs a fair bit more than the Basic Discovery Scanner in (1). Works exactly the same as our Advanced Discover Scanner works in 2.3 i.e. Low resolution planet surfaces are visible, but not the planet surface map. You can tell the different world types apart (as you do now), but close up surface detail is not visible until you do a surface scan.
    Use-case: New, or cash-strapped, explorers who just want to get out there. Mission runners from (1) who have a bit more money to spend.

    3. Advanced Discovery Scanner: The slowest scan type (10 secs), and most expensive. Does everything the Intermediate Discover Scanner does in (2), but also reveals the detailed surface maps.
    Use-case: Explorers, or anyone not under strict time constraints, and who need to see surface details from far away.

    The detailed surface scanner could then be used to get material types, body details, name, 'first discovered' tags, and (hopefully) a means to identify POI's.

    My feeling is that an explorer would travel over 100k LY to a planet with interesting surface features, as long as they know there's something there.

  9. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #39
    Sandro Sammarco is offline
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous
    Frontier Employee
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
    Thanks Sandro, some more Cmdr involvement in the process would be a good thing, and more 'cool' never goes amiss. Looking forward to it.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
    Thanks for steeping by Sandro, It's really appreciated. Let's hope the whole thing is not turned into a war between opposite sides. As we can see in this thread, there are really cool ways to add to things without turning off what's important to some, I realize. Alternative is the word.

    thanks again.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
    You could always implement the in-system jumping between stars and planetary bodies (as was laid out in the DDF).

  13. #43
    Good to know Sandro. I'll welcome a solution that has some sort of interaction offered beyond holding down fire button for the honk.
    RISE UP NOW! NEVER SURRENDER!
    Member of Communism Interstellar Union

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
    This sounds awesome Sandro and has me really excited for the coming "season"! A big revamp of the scan and exploration mechanic is something that I've been waiting and hoping for, for a long time. Imo the infinite range isn't the issue though, it's the instant 1 button press and point and wait mechanics. As you say, this makes exploration just too passive. Today's (2017) telescopes don't really have a range limit, and are only limited by time and the observable edge of the universe, so having a max range on sensors doesn't make a lot of technical sense. What might make more sense would be some kind of involved readout with wavelength dials (IR, visible, Xray, etc) that we could cycle through, and other focus inputs, that also had better resolution and more accurate info the closer you got to the object. Distant objects might take longer to resolve and give less detailed info. Maybe the DSS could involve some kind of spectrometer that we could see a general heat map where certain types of elements/minerals/structures would be more likely to be found?

    I am sure lots of people have ideas on how to improve it, and I look very much forward to that conversation, because the current mechanic needs more heart as well as more brains involved!

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    For what it's worth, I personally wouldn't mind removing the infinite honk, just as I'd like to see the removal of the basic stellar scan that forces you to fly close to get any data. I would like to see processes that were a little more involved (and cool looking/feeling) with regards to Commanders actually having to do something, whilst minimising uncessessary super cruise travel time. But this is just me musing. Like the karma system, exploration (and extraction) is something that we'll hopefully be getting into in some more depth in the forums.
    Yes! I would love to see some improvements for exploration.

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