Page 32 of 44 FirstFirst ... 2228293031323334353642 ... LastLast
Results 466 to 480 of 652

Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.
Thread: Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)

  1. #466
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Basically, it just sounds like a mess that even Sandro doesn't fully understand how it all works.

    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    You know that one, Barron. It's because many players want Open to be everything. They want to meet unknown players who are friendly only. PG is not enough of a nice social interaction and they don't get any value from opposing player encounters unfortunately.
    MSR

  2. #467
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Basically, it just sounds like a mess that even Sandro doesn't fully understand how it all works.
    Well, it seems more complicated than anyone assumed, so that's not really surprising.

    On one hand, we at least have some official word on how it's supposed to work, so in-game effects that contradict this can confidently be reported as bugs.

    On the other hand, with so many variables in play, it becomes difficult to isolate what exactly is going on and perform testing free from the influence of other factors.

  3. #468
    ...and there was light, And, it was good.
    Elite Commander Mohrgan
    F.S.S. Wolfshead MO-04F
    Separating Pirates and Ships since 3300

  4. #469
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Basically, it just sounds like a mess that even Sandro doesn't fully understand how it all works.
    Peering and instancing is inherently complicated. There are a lot of 'conversations' going on with a potentially large number of variables in the mix. How that works in practice, is seldom trivially predictable.

    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    Because a percentage of the player base fundamentally believes that combat in open (regardless of reason) with another commander, is inherently incorrect and should thus not occur. It doesn't matter if there are other modes available, or if laws and consequences exist - it's that that moral position must take precedence over game mechanics.

    Frontier should not be responsible for player etiquette; the in-game mechanics should consider repeated sorts of crime an escalation, and thus escalate a response, instead. It doesn't work very well, and so people simply agitate to get it removed entirely instead, because that's easier than facing the reality that there are two sides to every coin, and that that isn't inherently wrong in a game.

    Or that they have choice.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  5. #470
    Originally Posted by EvE4evah View Post (Source)
    You know that one, Barron. It's because many players want Open to be everything. They want to meet unknown players who are friendly only. PG is not enough of a nice social interaction and they don't get any value from opposing player encounters unfortunately.

    If players want Open to be everything, surely they do not want to meet players that are "friendly only"?

  6. #471
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    Originally Posted by EvE4evah View Post (Source)
    You know that one, Barron. It's because many players want Open to be everything. They want to meet unknown players who are friendly only. PG is not enough of a nice social interaction and they don't get any value from opposing player encounters unfortunately.
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Because a percentage of the player base fundamentally believes that combat in open (regardless of reason) with another commander, is inherently incorrect and should thus not occur. It doesn't matter if there are other modes available, or if laws and consequences exist - it's that that moral position must take precedence over game mechanics.
    This keeps coming up, but my explanation remains the same.

    I like PVP and open mode warts and all, but I don't like playing games with cheats/exploiters.

    I've got some station rammers blocked by using an in-game option in the way it was intended, I haven't reduced any in-game risk I've just removed (or vastly lessened the chances of being instanced with) a few players exploiting the game in a way FDEV are actively trying to stop.

    Open is still open, it just doesn't routinely have station griefing in it anymore (for me).

    My game, my choice.



    FDEV's official advice on dealing with griefing :
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...efing-(part-2)

  7. #472
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Basically, it just sounds like a mess that even Sandro doesn't fully understand how it all works.

    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    Ooh, ooh... I know the answer to this one!

    It's because a player who enjoys playing in Open should not have to play only in Solo/Group simply in order to avoid one person.

  8. #473
    Originally Posted by Maxmilian Czhilli View Post (Source)
    Ooh, ooh... I know the answer to this one!

    It's because a player who enjoys playing in Open should not have to play only in Solo/Group simply in order to avoid one person.
    This precisely although frankly it doesn't work well enough. I have one I've blocked and I still run into that player on a regular basis. At least I don't have to hear (read) their yapping (typing) but it'd be best if they were gone altogether.

  9. #474
    Originally Posted by Stigbob View Post (Source)
    This keeps coming up, but my explanation remains the same.

    I like PVP and open mode warts and all, but I don't like playing games with cheats/exploiters.
    Interesting use of "warts and all". To be fair to Frontier, they act promptly against actual cheating. Frankly I'd not class station ramming, or mining as 'cheating'. It's simply leveraging existing limits for tactical advantage. Which is essentially what blocking does. Leverages existing limits for tactical advantage. I can't say I really care to be honest.

    I just apparently need to go remind myself what "warts and all" means though, it must have changed.

    Best of luck.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  10. #475
    Originally Posted by Maxmilian Czhilli View Post (Source)
    Ooh, ooh... I know the answer to this one!

    It's because a player who enjoys playing in Open should not have to play only in Solo/Group simply in order to avoid one person.
    Yeah sure. But if the list climbs to hundreds of people, at what point do you ponder the notion the issue might not be 'Open' specifically.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  11. #476
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Interesting use of "warts and all". To be fair to Frontier, they act promptly against actual cheating. Frankly I'd not class station ramming, or mining as 'cheating'. It's simply leveraging existing limits for tactical advantage. Which is essentially what blocking does. Leverages existing limits for tactical advantage. I can't say I really care to be honest.

    I just apparently need to go remind myself what "warts and all" means though, it must have changed.

    Best of luck.
    Thanks.

    Warts and all=Including all blemishes, faults, and shortcomings. Started supposedly by Oliver Cromwell in directions to a painter to make his portrait more accurate than flattering (Cromwell had warts).

    I used it in the context of my willingness to accept/enjoyment of open modes extra danger (perceived or otherwise) and everything that comes with that. I did not use it in the context of being willing to tolerate the shortcomings of individuals.

    Cheating/griefing I'd say is a sliding scale of doing things the game didn't intend with cheating at the severe end and exploiting at the minor, however there's crossover in that a bad exploit is worse than a minor cheat (subjectivity strikes again). Station griefing is usually (but not always) just an exploit. But after almost three years of continual variations of this exploit it's gone up my personal naughty scale to get perma-blocked on sight levels.



    FDEV's official advice on dealing with griefing :
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...efing-(part-2)

  12. #477
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Yeah sure. But if the list climbs to hundreds of people, at what point do you ponder the notion the issue might not be 'Open' specifically.
    Summarising what I've seen of people's block lists in this thread, I don't think anyone has admitted to blocking more than one or two players, and many of us who like having the option of blocking have never actually used it at all. So to answer that question, a block list of hundreds probably wouldn't be "proper Open", but it doesn't seem to be a case which ever occurs. I think all the angst here is mainly theoretical, and having the options of solo and private group will probably keep it so.

  13. #478
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Yeah sure. But if the list climbs to hundreds of people, at what point do you ponder the notion the issue might not be 'Open' specifically.
    This is speculative territory. I'm not aware of anyone with a block list of hundreds of people. And I'm not sure I understand what you mean by: "the issue might not be 'Open' specifically."

    But I reckon that if a player did have a block list with hundreds of people then playing in Solo or Group would be a better option for them. The greater the chance that an instance contains a player on your Block List the more likely that the matchmaking server wil place you in low pop instances. There also has to come a point where a white list solution (Groups) is easier to manage and more effective than a black list (Block List).

    So yeah if you want to avoid lots of people then I'd advise using Solo or Groups as the best solution.

    If you want to avoid just a small number of individuals you can use the Block List and continue enjoying Open with the likelihood of meeting specific players reduced.

    Its about using the right tool for the job.

  14. #479
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Because a percentage of the player base fundamentally believes that combat in open (regardless of reason) with another commander, is inherently incorrect and should thus not occur. It doesn't matter if there are other modes available, or if laws and consequences exist - it's that that moral position must take precedence over game mechanics.
    Strange, after all these years of PvP vs PvE discussion you still don't understand anything.

  15. #480
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    It's just that a comment such as "change your game" suggests it's up to people to deal with those who they find unacceptable, instead of blocking them.
    Considering that is exactly what you'd have to do in any game that didn't feature this game's P2P-driven instancing model and the inherent ability to provide even this level of player-influenced blocking, I'm surprised that this is a shocking concept to some. It is after all how we have to deal with people who we just don't like in virtually every other situation we will encounter in life.

    I'm sorry but this entire discussion is just obliterated by snowflakes as far as I'm concerned, it's actually quite difficult for me to remember that I'm dealing with what I assume are for the most part mature adults when so many people seem obsessed with the 'need' for a 'make everything nice' button.

    With that in mind, I shall now leave the thread because I clearly have nothing further to contribute within the context of this discussion.

Page 32 of 44 FirstFirst ... 2228293031323334353642 ... LastLast