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Thread: Lead Designers advice on dealing with griefing (part 2)

  1. #481
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    Strange, after all these years of PvP vs PvE discussion you still don't understand anything.
    Strange, after all this time, it's the same snide and pathetic commentary that trivialises for the sake of scoring cheap points. Whatever will I do? I know, I'll block ignore you.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  2. #482
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    Ask yourself why CQC isn't enough of a tool for players who're interested in PvP.

    Once you have an answer to that, you have the answer to your own question too. .

  3. #483
    Originally Posted by Maxmilian Czhilli View Post (Source)
    Its about using the right tool for the job.
    Indeed.

    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Ask yourself why CQC isn't enough of a tool for players who're interested in PvP.

    Once you have an answer to that, you have the answer to your own question too. .
    CQC has a raft of problems, people shooting at each other, is hilariously the least of them.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  4. #484
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    Except there is more to it than that. Not getting an instance that should be more populated, not seeing people that should be able to get into your instance without winging with them, going into a low wake to find nothing, interdicting/being interdicted and finding nothing, etc.

    Absence is often just as telling as presence...

    No there is nothing more than that. A player didn't get matched with another. Big deal. Sack rice in East Asia has toppled, too.

    Everything else is just a narration. A figment of your imagination.

    #justastory


    All the cogs and wheels stay still if it is the People's will.

  5. #485
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Strange, after all this time, it's the same snide and pathetic commentary that trivialises for the sake of scoring cheap points. Whatever will I do? I know, I'll block ignore you.
    Yes, just block me and continue to live in your black and white world.

  6. #486
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Ask yourself why CQC isn't enough of a tool for players who're interested in PvP.

    Once you have an answer to that, you have the answer to your own question too. .
    I have zero intrest in pvp, but even I know CQC isnt a valid agugement when it comes to satisfing the need for real pvp goals or needs, it was but a quick cash grab and a gimik at best.

    But thats a topic for another thread

  7. #487
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    Yes, just block me and continue to live in your black and white world.
    Don't be racist!

  8. #488
    Originally Posted by lokvette View Post (Source)
    I have zero intrest in pvp, but even I know CQC isnt a valid agugement when it comes to satisfing the need for real pvp goals or needs, it was but a quick cash grab and a gimik at best.
    Isn't that a bit like deciding that your local motor-racing circuit sucks and then insisting that you should be allowed to race your car on the public highway and everybody else should accept that some people race their cars on the public highway?

  9. #489
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    Considering that is exactly what you'd have to do in any game that didn't feature this game's P2P-driven instancing model and the inherent ability to provide even this level of player-influenced blocking, I'm surprised that this is a shocking concept to some. It is after all how we have to deal with people who we just don't like in virtually every other situation we will encounter in life.

    I'm sorry but this entire discussion is just obliterated by snowflakes as far as I'm concerned, it's actually quite difficult for me to remember that I'm dealing with what I assume are for the most part mature adults when so many people seem obsessed with the 'need' for a 'make everything nice' button.

    With that in mind, I shall now leave the thread because I clearly have nothing further to contribute within the context of this discussion.
    I think the "make everything nice" demand doesn't actually exist outside of bad arguments being made in a failed attempt to belittle people who use the block function. It does get brought up all the time, but not by people suggesting it. More as doom laden prophecy or cheap shot at the opposition.

    It's similar to the argument that people with giant block lists are going to break the game, it won't break the game or even effect it for anyone except the blocker as Sandro has explained, and nobody I know of has a giant block-list mine for example has nine CMDR's on it.

    On the subject of people you just don't like you are right when referring to real life workplaces, school the bloke in the bikeshop whatever. But not social life which is an entirely different kettle of fish and almost* entirely non-compulsory, video games are a social thing.




    *the dreaded work Christmas party <shudders>.



    FDEV's official advice on dealing with griefing :
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...efing-(part-2)

  10. #490
    Originally Posted by Stigbob View Post (Source)
    I think the "make everything nice" demand doesn't actually exist outside of bad arguments being made in a failed attempt to belittle people who use the block function. It does get brought up all the time, but not by people suggesting it. More as doom laden prophecy or cheap shot at the opposition.

    It's similar to the argument that people with giant block lists are going to break the game, it won't break the game or even effect it for anyone except the blocker as Sandro has explained, and nobody I know of has a giant block-list mine for example has nine CMDR's on it.

    On the subject of people you just don't like you are right when referring to real life workplaces, school the bloke in the bikeshop whatever. But not social life which is an entirely different kettle of fish and almost* entirely non-compulsory, video games are a social thing.




    *the dreaded work Christmas party <shudders>.
    Mine has two and one was an accident because I was testing the function and never bothered to undo. I enjoy pvp and Open and deal with all sorts but if anything, I'd like the block function to be more robust so you can choose just how much you want to block someone.

    Soft block: No Comms but otherwise all the same.
    Medium: As is
    Hard: Won't instance with them even if it means you are locked out from instancing with friends if they happen to be instanced with the blocked player.

  11. #491
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Isn't that a bit like deciding that your local motor-racing circuit sucks and then insisting that you should be allowed to race your car on the public highway and everybody else should accept that some people race their cars on the public highway?
    It might well be, I was pointing out that as is CQC isn't an end all of pvp.

    I always wondered why Power Play wasn't the main thing for pvpers to do at least there there is something to fight for and fight over, or at least there could have been if it was done properly in the first place, and for once I agree with JB, but I already use Solo or PG as my block button.

    I dont pvp in ED thus you wont find me in open that often,(yes I know open isn't only about pvp) saying that if I was to come across one of the a holes when I was in open, either a kid with a potty mouth or someone killing me to get their jollies off I would then indeed make use of the block button as I see it thats what its there for.

  12. #492
    Originally Posted by jasonbarron View Post (Source)
    Basically, it just sounds like a mess that even Sandro doesn't fully understand how it all works.

    And it begs the question: why isn't Solo/Group enough of a tool for players to sort out who they want to play with?
    For many players (perhaps even most players ?) it already is enough of a tool to sort out the issue, and they don't worry about the block mechanic.

    And for that very reason there is no incentive for them to even take part in threads like these. So you won't really hear from them.

    I wouldn't have either if it hadn't been for you asking that question.

  13. #493
    Originally Posted by lokvette View Post (Source)
    It might well be, I was pointing out that as is CQC isn't an end all of pvp.

    I always wondered why Power Play wasn't the main thing for pvpers to do at least there there is something to fight for and fight over, or at least there could have been if it was done properly in the first place, and for once I agree with JB, but I already use Solo or PG as my block button.

    I dont pvp in ED thus you wont find me in open that often,(yes I know open isn't only about pvp) saying that if I was to come across one of the a holes when I was in open, either a kid with a potty mouth or someone killing me to get their jollies off I would then indeed make use of the block button as I see it thats what its there for.
    CQC or Powerplay is not an option for PvPers because they might encounter enemies who are not pushovers. It's the same reason bullies never attack the kids in the higher grades...

    Now this is obviously not true because there are a lot of people who enjoy a fair fight, but they don't have a problem with the block function either...

    I'd say this argument is not very good, but still better than saying there is a percentage of people who demonise PvP because they believe it's morally wrong to fight with each other and want to remove it from the game.

  14. #494
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Ask yourself why CQC isn't enough of a tool for players who're interested in PvP.

    Once you have an answer to that, you have the answer to your own question too. .
    Oh dear, I had to address this despite my earlier promise to leave you to it.

    1. Staged arena combat rather than the evolving situations that are found in an open game environment.
    2. Inability to use a player's own ships which drastically limits the potential variety of loadouts (and therefore combat mechanics) that can be employed.

    CQC is what it is, some players like it and some don't but you really don't need to get into any nefarious intent on the behalf of another player to understand why it has limited appeal; its appeal is limited because its gameplay is limited.

    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Isn't that a bit like deciding that your local motor-racing circuit sucks and then insisting that you should be allowed to race your car on the public highway and everybody else should accept that some people race their cars on the public highway?

    No, not in the slightest. It would be if racing cars on the public highway was an entirely legal activity where you live.

  15. #495
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Yeah sure. But if the list climbs to hundreds of people, at what point do you ponder the notion the issue might not be 'Open' specifically.
    I think at this point, if there really are hundreds of people causing problems in OPEN.. and the block feature is humongous in its over use, by a ridiculously large swathe of players wanting to interact and play in OPEN.. Then it may be time to start pondering the feasibility of a PvE OPEN mode to correct this out of control 'blocking' trend. Again it's simply over use of an unintentionally useful feature for something it wasn't really designed for or intended for... Like... yep... GROUP mode. FDEV never really considered that Group mode would eventually be used to contain and have it's envelope breached by so many players looking to play co-op with each other.

    All things considered... Group mode, and 'block feature' have far exceeded their initial intended function. Why? Simply put.. BOTH features are compensating for a lack of Open PvE. That's fundamentally it. Lack of PvE OPEN.

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