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Thread: Pilot's Federation Bounty Discussion

  1. #211
    I have an idea how to make Pilots Federation bounties hurt: make the bounty incurred proportional to the amount of credits in a pilot's balance. Example: If I have a balance of 500,000,000 cr, and I get say a 50,000 cr bounty of murder, that isn't much of a deterrence. On the other hand, if you set the percentage of bounty that you'll earn for murder at say 25% of your balance, that's a 125,000,000 cr hit to my finances. Even 10%, which is 50,000,000 cr, might make people think twice.

  2. #212
    Originally Posted by damon8r351 View Post (Source)
    I have an idea how to make Pilots Federation bounties hurt: make the bounty incurred proportional to the amount of credits in a pilot's balance. Example: If I have a balance of 500,000,000 cr, and I get say a 50,000 cr bounty of murder, that isn't much of a deterrence. On the other hand, if you set the percentage of bounty that you'll earn for murder at say 25% of your balance, that's a 125,000,000 cr hit to my finances. Even 10%, which is 50,000,000 cr, might make people think twice.
    Yes and while you're at it give them a real life fine if they want to continue playing the game... the mechanic you speak of is absurd for two reasons:
    1) I would end Criminal pvp in game which is a part of the game. You may not like it but in game Vandalism is a valid choice (it's also not murder because your character always survives) and playstyles. What we are discussing is creating reasonable crime and punishment so the game feels more balanced, not punishing players for playing their own way.
    2) This is extraordinarily easy to exploit. It would take trolling to new heights as careless commanders in haz Res would be made wanted by smaller ships intentionally putting themselves in the line of fire.

  3. #213
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Yes and while you're at it give them a real life fine if they want to continue playing the game... the mechanic you speak of is absurd for two reasons:
    1) I would end Criminal pvp in game which is a part of the game. You may not like it but in game Vandalism is a valid choice (it's also not murder because your character always survives) and playstyles. What we are discussing is creating reasonable crime and punishment so the game feels more balanced, not punishing players for playing their own way.
    2) This is extraordinarily easy to exploit. It would take trolling to new heights as careless commanders in haz Res would be made wanted by smaller ships intentionally putting themselves in the line of fire.
    And it's open to adjustment. 1% instead of 10%. Or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that the set fines have been commented on multiple times as being inadequate, this is just one suggestion. It could force people who are playing a Criminal style to think a new way, come up with some fresh tactics. Force CMDRs in HAZRES's to exercise greater situational awareness. The point I'm trying to make is that proportional fines is actually a valid form of enforcing the law in real life, Finland for one. Think my idea is bad? Discuss it, refine it, instead of calling it absurd and dismissing it.

  4. #214
    Originally Posted by damon8r351 View Post (Source)
    And it's open to adjustment. 1% instead of 10%. Or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that the set fines have been commented on multiple times as being inadequate, this is just one suggestion. It could force people who are playing a Criminal style to think a new way, come up with some fresh tactics. Force CMDRs in HAZRES's to exercise greater situational awareness. The point I'm trying to make is that proportional fines is actually a valid form of enforcing the law in real life, Finland for one. Think my idea is bad? Discuss it, refine it, instead of calling it absurd and dismissing it.
    All things being equal, that's how I'd have real life motor vehicle infractions work.

  5. #215
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    All things being equal, that's how aid have real life motor vehicle infractions work.
    Think I'm missing something, or you are? What do you mean by "aid"?

  6. #216
    Originally Posted by damon8r351 View Post (Source)
    Think I'm missing something, or you are? What do you mean by "aid"?
    It's my iPad. It's cracked and causes all sorts of typos. I'll fix it now.

  7. #217
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    The giant hole in your argument (aside from presuming to know what will or will not motivate players other than yourself from coming to Open) is your concept of murder. The only murder in game is that committed against NPCs. Between players it's always property damage.
    I just said that if good c&p changes go through, Open WILL fill up again in good numbers. It is not a premonition or presumption. It is almost a fact. How many threads you see where people leave open just because they are being constantly ganked with no penalty to the ganker? Ofc some will still stay in PG but I didnt presume anything. You did that for me.

    My concept of murder. Gosh, what could it be.... Maybe stomping on a bugs with your SRV. Good?


    Canonn Interstellar Research Group


    CLICK HERE for "The Guardians and Ancient Ruins" Audio Book! All Entries from all Categories! Learn about the Guardians while you travel!

  8. #218
    Originally Posted by Hazzu View Post (Source)
    I just said that if good c&p changes go through, Open WILL fill up again in great numbers. It is not a premonition or presumption. It is almost a fact. How many threads you see where people leave open just because they are being constantly ganked with no penalty to the ganker?

    My concept of murder. Gosh, what could it be.... Maybe stomping on a bugs with your SRV. Good?
    Just ignore me when I'm cranky and I'll make an effort to be nicer. I'm passionate about the game but that's no excuse to be rude. Soz.

  9. #219
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    The giant hole in your argument (aside from presuming to know what will or will not motivate players other than yourself from coming to Open) is your concept of murder. The only murder in game is that committed against NPCs. Between players it's always property damage.
    I disagree - just because we get a rebuy screen and the chance to continue with a death penalty does not make it just "property damage".

    While I do see your point of view, in ED terms the killing of ANY ship without first identifying it has a valid warrant is technically murder regardless of whether the target/attacker is PC/NPC.

    That being said...
    Originally Posted by Hazzu View Post (Source)
    This is a very welcome addition and if it goes allright, many players will go back to open. Some things tho...

    1. Current CR penalty for brutal murder is way too low. It should be in range of 200-300CR depending on the situation. If not more.
    2. CMDRs with high bounties and WANTED status in Medium and High security systems (especially high) should constaltly be harrassed by heavily engineered police wings so there is no "Come and join killing the police fun"
    3. Retweak the ability to collect bounty if you have one on yourself and manage to dock with station. This was test mode so everybody was ganking everyone.
    4. Now stations. Stations scan of crimes should work inside the station OR be shorter so CMDR cannot just escape into station with scan then aborted and be safe. He still has the time to escape into the void instead going into the station for safety before scan is complete. Run if scanned, if not well you are lucky. Stations should be godly murderer gankers.
    5. Crimes should differ. But again back to CR. Credits should be a good indicator of what CMDR did. If he has 100k+ then def a murderer. If he has 20k or whatever then maybe he rammed someone or accidentaly shoot NPC, etc.

    When a human Commander commits the crime of murder against another human Commander, they will receive a Pilot's Federation Bounty in addition to the standard jurisdiction bounty.

    Awesome. Make their life miserable.

    Pilot's Federation Bounties are valid in all faction jurisdictions except anarchies.

    Completely fine. Anarchy systems are what they are. Sanctuary for criminals.

    Pilot's Federation Bounties expire and become Pilot's Federation Legacy fines, just like normal bounties. Again, these fines are valid everywhere except anarchies.

    Should not expire. Murder never expires. Other little stuff can. Once you murder someone you should be marked for life (until rebuy screen). And good for anarchy.
    I am not sure I agree with Hazzu on the matter of being marked for life where the Bounties are concerned. I would expect the rebuy penalty to perhaps persist regardless of the WANTED status.

    I would expect Pilot's Federation bounties to not be payable by the player while active though - like you can with normal faction/power bounties. Not sure if this is the case.

    As for Item 4, that could have a negative impact for smugglers - smugglers can avoid scans currently by using Stealth mode during docking.

  10. #220
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    I disagree - just because we get a rebuy screen and the chance to continue with a death penalty does not make it just "property damage".

    While I do see your point of view, in ED terms the killing of ANY ship without first identifying it has a valid warrant is technically murder regardless of whether the target/attacker is PC/NPC.

    That being said...

    I am not sure I agree with Hazzu on the matter of being marked for life where the Bounties are concerned. I would expect the rebuy penalty to perhaps persist regardless of the WANTED status.

    I would expect Pilot's Federation bounties to not be payable by the player while active though - like you can with normal faction/power bounties. Not sure if this is the case.

    As for Item 4, that could have a negative impact for smugglers - smugglers can avoid scans currently by using Stealth mode during docking.
    Yeah, well maybe you are right. 7days (as is now) is a lot of time so its fine to go legacy.

    About Stations (4), I was talking about Crimes scan, not the cargo scan. If you dont have any crimes (big bounty), Station wont blow you up. You just get fined as always for smuggling or you manage to escape inside the station like before. But that escaping into the station while scan is active and then aborted is kinda weird. That needs to be fixed some way.

    EDIT: I was making a point at 4 for stations because too many times it was used to resupply\repair while WANTED just because you can escape the scan easily. It is currently abused mechanic.


    Canonn Interstellar Research Group


    CLICK HERE for "The Guardians and Ancient Ruins" Audio Book! All Entries from all Categories! Learn about the Guardians while you travel!

  11. #221
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    I disagree - just because we get a rebuy screen and the chance to continue with a death penalty does not make it just "property damage".

    While I do see your point of view, in ED terms the killing of ANY ship without first identifying it has a valid warrant is technically murder regardless of whether the target/attacker is PC/NPC.

    That being said...

    I am not sure I agree with Hazzu on the matter of being marked for life where the Bounties are concerned. I would expect the rebuy penalty to perhaps persist regardless of the WANTED status.

    I would expect Pilot's Federation bounties to not be payable by the player while active though - like you can with normal faction/power bounties. Not sure if this is the case.

    As for Item 4, that could have a negative impact for smugglers - smugglers can avoid scans currently by using Stealth mode during docking.
    I wouldn't be against the idea of also adding a timer on the of bounties that keeps the warrant on somehow. IOW while it may not offer money (or maybe just one bounties worth per death) it would keep the player killer (and sometimes that's me though I'm not indiscriminate about it) wanted for a week regardless of facing the rebuy screen at least in the sector where the bounty was originally issued. Just spitballing. While I don't agree with extreme credit punishments, I think the use of a warrant system where that player can't simply rid him or herself of it until the timer runs out would at least stop the type of gank where a clean pilot has to wait for the Vandal (we can agree to disagree on the murder thing) to initiate aggression before they can fire back.

  12. #222
    Originally Posted by damon8r351 View Post (Source)
    I have an idea how to make Pilots Federation bounties hurt: make the bounty incurred proportional to the amount of credits in a pilot's balance. Example: If I have a balance of 500,000,000 cr, and I get say a 50,000 cr bounty of murder, that isn't much of a deterrence. On the other hand, if you set the percentage of bounty that you'll earn for murder at say 25% of your balance, that's a 125,000,000 cr hit to my finances. Even 10%, which is 50,000,000 cr, might make people think twice.
    Been thinking about this idea as I think in some Scandi countries they have similar ideas but I don't think it will be a good fit for ED.

    1. A bounty is a price on a Cmdr's head for a crime or series of crimes. Bounties are not fines although they seem to act like this in ED (part of the problem why C&P is a mess), as they can be paid off by the recipient.

    2. If a Cmdr has a low amount of credits then the bounty added could differ wildly to a Cmdr that happens to have a large number of credits for the same crime.

    3. Also a Cmdr's bank balance has no relevance to the "crime". Similarly the current thinking of relating the rebut cost to the most expensive ship suffers from the same bad logic.

    There is no death for Cmdr's and life is cheap (for NPC) in the ED galaxy but hardware is not. This has produced a logic problems exploits (sucidewinder) and unwanted game play (Clogging etc.) as a result. I would prefer a method where

    i. the level of bounty is equivalent to the destroyed ship + modules + cargo + %admin, (if the admin charge was related to PF reputation at later date this would further strengthen the system). This way bounties are always linked to a value/cost that is relevant to game and could therefore feed into the BGS. Numbers of ships/modules could effect prices/ availability etc. The PF replace the destroyed ship so in theory it costs them credits, also the pay out on a bounty costs the PF.

    ii. If the bounty claim is equal up to the amount of the destroyed ship + modules this weights the bounty according to the difficultly in acquiring it. Destroying a sidewinder will have a smaller claim than a Anaconda for example.

    iii. To square the circle when a Cmdr with a bounty is destroyed the value of the claim should be taken out of the bounty pot and converted to a fine that is added on to the rebuy cost. This will make suicide windering uneconomical as the destroyed Cmdr will be in effect be paying the bounty + having to rebuy the ship. Again if the ship rebuy was related to PF reputation and a claim rate then this would further make suicide windering uneconomical. Even if an associate is collecting the bounty then it will eventually become unsustainable.

  13. #223
    As I see it, this is all to combat Griefers, Gankers and CMDR-Killers. Ironically, the Radar Solid Icon Bug you fixed was a simple solution to this! Players could not tell at a glance if other Players were in System and they would have to either use the Comms Roll Panel or lock on and scan a target ship before discovering if that was a Player's ship or not. Too much effort for most of the above and gave time for their would-be victim to get beyond their reach. Elegant and simple. But it was a BUG. And you FIXED it.

    Most PvP players are targeting players simply because they are real life players and ignoring other NPC targets. This is unrealistic and ruins the gaming experience for non PvP'ers who wish to play in Open, forcing them to play in Solo or Private Group instead. Could a setting toggle be included to indicate whether or not a Player is willing to participate in PvP action (similar to the "Report Crimes Against Me" on/off) with the aggressor receiving a message/warning about attacking someone who doesn't want to do PvP? E.g. "Target Protected by the Pilot's Federation". This is not ideal and ruins immersion slightly - not that the PvP'ers will care about that. Harsh penalties should then follow if they decide to attack anyway.

    Ultimately, the solution should be obvious - Have a PvP server where the knuckle-draggers can kill each other as much as they want in their over-engineered ships and leave the RPG'ers to experience the Elite Galaxy as it was intended.

  14. #224
    Originally Posted by CMDR Drake View Post (Source)
    As I see it, this is all to combat Griefers, Gankers and CMDR-Killers. Ironically, the Radar Solid Icon Bug you fixed was a simple solution to this! Players could not tell at a glance if other Players were in System and they would have to either use the Comms Roll Panel or lock on and scan a target ship before discovering if that was a Player's ship or not. Too much effort for most of the above and gave time for their would-be victim to get beyond their reach. Elegant and simple. But it was a BUG. And you FIXED it.

    Most PvP players are targeting players simply because they are real life players and ignoring other NPC targets. This is unrealistic and ruins the gaming experience for non PvP'ers who wish to play in Open, forcing them to play in Solo or Private Group instead. Could a setting toggle be included to indicate whether or not a Player is willing to participate in PvP action (similar to the "Report Crimes Against Me" on/off) with the aggressor receiving a message/warning about attacking someone who doesn't want to do PvP? E.g. "Target Protected by the Pilot's Federation". This is not ideal and ruins immersion slightly - not that the PvP'ers will care about that. Harsh penalties should then follow if they decide to attack anyway.

    Ultimately, the solution should be obvious - Have a PvP server where the knuckle-draggers can kill each other as much as they want in their over-engineered ships and leave the RPG'ers to experience the Elite Galaxy as it was intended.
    Yep. Best change in the game and it was an accident.

  15. #225
    Originally Posted by CMDR Drake View Post (Source)
    As I see it, this is all to combat Griefers, Gankers and CMDR-Killers. Ironically, the Radar Solid Icon Bug you fixed was a simple solution to this! Players could not tell at a glance if other Players were in System and they would have to either use the Comms Roll Panel or lock on and scan a target ship before discovering if that was a Player's ship or not. Too much effort for most of the above and gave time for their would-be victim to get beyond their reach. Elegant and simple. But it was a BUG. And you FIXED it.
    This wouldn't really help. Even without the hollow icon, it's pretty easy to tell from 90% of ship names whether they're PC or NPC: no need to scan, just cycle. And if you're hanging around in supercruise looking for trouble, you're going to be scanning each new contact as it appears, which is easy to do.
    CMDR Tannik Seldon - The "Million-to-One Chance"
    [Youtube]

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