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Thread: Ship Rebuy Penalty Cost Discussion

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Jpfan01 View Post (Source)
    You're reading comprehension is not my problem. I even included a picture. I already listed examples, then you say "list examples" like you didn't even read. I explained how this can be abused and change pvp fights directly in two examples and you say "how does this affect pvp?"

    I can't make you more able to comprehend what you read, sorry.

    Here's another example of how to avoid part of the penalty. Build a hauler taxi, go murder people and rack up a huge bounty. Then switch to a sidewinder, do the suicide sidewinder option, chose the freeship instead of rebuy and then spawn where your travel taxi is, problem solved.
    Don't you PVP players have a KOS list for combat loggers? Couldn't you make one for Report Crime switchers as well? This could be handled out of game all the same.

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Lordxenu View Post (Source)
    This reads to me like you just jump to a different system to avoid the whole thing or does this include the new pilots federation thing? If so then i just jump to an amarchy system then do it and im free? I dont get it
    I assumed PF but the way Sandro writes it makes me think it only counts if you respawn in that system. Which makes the entire thing pointless, because all a 'griefer' needs to do is be based from a next-door system. Something I am wondering: why doesnt FD discuss this BEFORE implementing it in a beta. Beta should be for testing if it works on a technical level, but now we're not even sure if it works on a conceptual level.


  3. #33
    I always liked the GTA system, you blow up someone's car you pay for its insurance.

  4. #34
    Will Report Crimes on/off trolling be resolved in 2.4 too, by preventing switching between off to on during a fight? Alternatively, make it so that Report Crimes can only be enabled/disabled when docked at a station.


    Same goes for Wings of CMDRs with a mixture of on/off. Sync Report Crimes to the Wing Leader.


    Otherwise, the PF Bounties combined with Rebuy Penalty will punish many good PvPers while providing even more laughs for the griefers.
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  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Ozric View Post (Source)

    I would like to see this mechanic extended to all murder. NPC and PC.
    That'd make the game extremely annoying for people who do many, many "legit" illegal activities.

    The idea is to try to make PVP meaningful, instead of random, not make the game really stressful.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Ozric View Post (Source)
    This mechanics is to stop people swapping into sidewinders to clear their bounties, do you normally rack up lots of bounties against NPC ships and then swap into a cheap ship if you want to clear your crimes?
    Personally, no I don't. But I still don't think that it makes sense in the slightest to apply this to NPCs. It isn't an issue at all if you rack up lots of bounties against NPCs; they don't have feelings and they don't dump salt on the forums.

    EDIT: It would only make sense if you get rid of the hollow square that identifies players over NPCs. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
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  7. #37
    Originally Posted by Novo Mundus View Post (Source)
    That'd make the game extremely annoying for people who do many, many "legit" illegal activities.

    The idea is to try to make PVP meaningful, instead of random, not make the game really stressful.
    No the idea is to begin to implement a meaningful Crime and Punishment system. If you can rack up millions in bounties against NPC pilots and then save yourself some credits when you want to get rid of it by changing into a Sidewinder to be killed, I don't believe that makes the game any better in any way. Unless I'm mistaken no "legit" illegal activities (whatever they are) involve killing clean NPCs, any that do involve that you should pay the penalty for.

    If the vision is to build a proper C&P system then the work needs to be done right, from the start.

    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    Personally, no I don't. But I still don't think that it makes sense in the slightest to apply this to NPCs. It isn't an issue at all if you rack up lots of bounties against NPCs; they don't have feelings and they don't dump salt on the forums.

    EDIT: It would only make sense if you get rid of the hollow square that identifies players over NPCs. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
    My above answers your point, and as for the Edit, that's partially been taken care of apparently

    Elite

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Ozric View Post (Source)
    No the idea is to begin to implement a meaningful Crime and Punishment system. If you can rack up millions in bounties against NPC pilots and then save yourself some credits when you want to get rid of it by changing into a Sidewinder to be killed, I don't believe that makes the game any better in any way. Unless I'm mistaken no "legit" illegal activities (whatever they are) involve killing clean NPCs, any that do involve that you should pay the penalty for.

    If the vision is to build a proper C&P system then the work needs to be done right, from the start.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this specific mechanic we're discussing here will never apply to NPCs, so suicidewinders will still work for removing millions in NPC bounties.

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by ryan_m View Post (Source)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this specific mechanic we're discussing here will never apply to NPCs, so suicidewinders will still work for removing millions in NPC bounties.
    I'm not aware anyone has said never.

    This is a Beta and so I make my suggestions, as far as I'm concerned you can't have a meaningful C&P system without it incorporating all aspects. And if it's going to be a good and meaningful system, why not apply it from the start.

    Do people really think it's a good idea to allow have the 2 treated so differently? I can't see how that can ever make a path on the wrong side of the law a fulfilling career if it's all aimed at solely player against player interactions. Also what would happen if you had killed one player and hundreds of NPCs, you'd still be having to pay the price of the ship you used to kill the player in.

    Elite

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    [*]This value is added to any legal costs during the rebuy flow if the Commander is rebuying at a starport in the jurisdiction that the crime was committed in IF the Commander in the meantime had switched ships to a cheaper vessel.
    Only in the exact same jurisdiction? This will have very little impact then. It should be as the rest of penalty changes re Pilot´s Federation, i.e. in all systems except anarchy.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Ozric View Post (Source)
    I'm not aware anyone has said never.

    This is a Beta and so I make my suggestions, as far as I'm concerned you can't have a meaningful C&P system without it incorporating all aspects. And if it's going to be a good and meaningful system, why not apply it from the start.

    Do people really think it's a good idea to allow have the 2 treated so differently? I can't see how that can ever make a path on the wrong side of the law a fulfilling career if it's all aimed at solely player against player interactions. Also what would happen if you had killed one player and hundreds of NPCs, you'd still be having to pay the price of the ship you used to kill the player in.
    I think it's a terrible idea to have it only apply to PvP kills. If they're trying to solve the problem of people killing other players and not facing any penalty for it, there are better ways to do that rather than adding a rebuy. This won't affect gankers at all, and will mainly affect less-experienced Open players. I'm thinking of the "expert" Cutter pilots getting eagle'd at stations and eating a 40 mil rebuy for it.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by ryan_m View Post (Source)
    I think it's a terrible idea to have it only apply to PvP kills. If they're trying to solve the problem of people killing other players and not facing any penalty for it, there are better ways to do that rather than adding a rebuy.
    Exactly, surely the Karma system will be much more apt for that. That's why I personally find it bizarre it doesn't extend to all murder.

    Elite

  13. #43
    I'm in agreement with the logic of making the treatment crimes against players the same as that v NPCs. I'd also like there to be a rapidly escalating response to crimes - culminating in getting chased all over the shop by highly engineered NPC bounty hunters if I'd really been a naughty girl
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  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Viajero View Post (Source)
    Only in the exact same jurisdiction? This will have very little impact then. It should be as the rest of penalty changes re Pilot´s Federation, i.e. in all systems except anarchy.
    100% agree with this too. Implementing something and then allowing Cmdrs to jump 1 system away and negate the whole thing, is pointless.

    Removal of docking privileges can't come soon enough

    Elite

  15. #45
    The other thing against about having rebuy bounties count for NPC's is just how easy it is to accidentlally wrack up a bounty and be punitively punished for it. NPC fighters continuing to shoot even when you disengage, killing skimmers, NPC's suddenly spawning on top of you when exiting SC. all of these incur tiny bounties and are often unavoidable.

    A system that gives say a 30 million rebuy when the bounty is just 2000cr is clearly broken, especially when it's just an NPC

    Killing a player is a deliberate choice that can have real consequences for the game

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