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Thread: Ship Rebuy Penalty Cost Discussion

  1. #46
    Extend it to NPC kills too. If this is about closing the suicidewinder loophole let's close the loophole already. The suicidewinder loophole negates the significance of bounties across the board and throughout the game. The suidicewinder loophole hurts powerplay and it hurts the BGS, because it removes a certain cost/benefit factor when you are engaging in aggressive and illegal behavior. If you want to fix it, this is your opportunity. If you don't think it needs to be fixed for all forms of in-game murder, then you might as well remove NPC bounties altogether since they serve no purpose. If this is about discouraging PvP, or "non-consensual" PvP, or Griefing; then there are other additional steps which need to be taken anyway which will have a greater impact.

    Let's not hamstring a much-needed and long-awaited game balance fix by trying to use it exclusively as a cudgel to punish PvPers.

  2. #47
    Originally Posted by Novo Mundus View Post (Source)
    That'd make the game extremely annoying for people who do many, many "legit" illegal activities.

    The idea is to try to make PVP meaningful, instead of random, not make the game really stressful.
    If you want to make PvP activities meaningful, you have to give it reward opportunities. It will also provide more obvious reason for the victim.

    Anyways, Ship rebuy penalty is bugged at the moment because it is better to use suicidewinder to avoid double rebuy.

    And this system won't work because players with criminal behavior will just adapt. Small ships will be used to kill innocent CMDRs and it will be even easier because people will wrongly assume it is more safe because attacker will face consequences. And they will fly defenceless loasout in open and still complain about being destroy for no reason.

    Crimes and punishment has to come with reward opportunities for criminals and huge advertising about loadout in a cutthroat galaxy for traders/explorers.

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by Kaocraft View Post (Source)
    Extend it to NPC kills too. If this is about closing the suicidewinder loophole let's close the loophole already. The suicidewinder loophole negates the significance of bounties across the board and throughout the game. The suidicewinder loophole hurts powerplay and it hurts the BGS, because it removes a certain cost/benefit factor when you are engaging in aggressive and illegal behavior. If you want to fix it, this is your opportunity. If you don't think it needs to be fixed for all forms of in-game murder, then you might as well remove NPC bounties altogether since they serve no purpose. If this is about discouraging PvP, or "non-consensual" PvP, or Griefing; then there are other additional steps which need to be taken anyway which will have a greater impact.

    Let's not hamstring a much-needed and long-awaited game balance fix by trying to use it exclusively as a cudgel to punish PvPers.
    Amen to all of that, very well said.
    CMDR Tannik Seldon - The "Million-to-One Chance"
    [Youtube]

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Kaocraft View Post (Source)
    Extend it to NPC kills too. If this is about closing the suicidewinder loophole let's close the loophole already. The suicidewinder loophole negates the significance of bounties across the board and throughout the game. The suidicewinder loophole hurts powerplay and it hurts the BGS, because it removes a certain cost/benefit factor when you are engaging in aggressive and illegal behavior. If you want to fix it, this is your opportunity. If you don't think it needs to be fixed for all forms of in-game murder, then you might as well remove NPC bounties altogether since they serve no purpose. If this is about discouraging PvP, or "non-consensual" PvP, or Griefing; then there are other additional steps which need to be taken anyway which will have a greater impact.

    Let's not hamstring a much-needed and long-awaited game balance fix by trying to use it exclusively as a cudgel to punish PvPers.
    Well said.

    I also wonder what happens for clean 2 CMDRs pledged to 2 different PP ennemy faction and fighting each other (they have crimes ON).

  5. #50
    Let players fold their weapons away after a small fine to stop police attack once it hits big fine/murder and bounty stage then folding away wont stop the attack

  6. #51
    Originally Posted by Jpfan01 View Post (Source)
    Here's another example of how to avoid part of the penalty. Build a hauler taxi, go murder people ..
    In another ship, not the hauler, right?
    Originally Posted by Jpfan01 View Post (Source)
    and rack up a huge bounty.
    Then switch to a sidewinder, do the suicide sidewinder option, chose the freeship instead of rebuy and then spawn where your travel taxi is, problem solved.
    Ok, presumably (I don't know), you would have to pay the rebuy penalty even if you chose the free ship option.

    CMDR Mal Reynolds (6th Interstellar Corps)

  7. #52
    I do not like the doubling of rebuy costs. I would by fine if the rebuy was just the amount of the most expensive ship used during a "murder spree".

    Is also odd that the "penalty" is the same if I have killed one CMDR or a hundred.

  8. #53
    Originally Posted by nrage View Post (Source)
    In another ship, not the hauler, right?

    Ok, presumably (I don't know), you would have to pay the rebuy penalty even if you chose the free ship option.
    As long as it's not doubling dipping like currently. I'm cool with agreeing that if I shoot someone I'm willing to rebuy my ship. I go into every encounter with mindset this may go south and I'll die. That's the gamble I make. That's no different than what I do now. I just fly around everywhere wanted. It gets reset when I die, so I try to stay alive as long as possible.

  9. #54
    It would make more sense and be more "lore friendly" if the cost of the victim's ship was added to your rebuy costs.

    Quite simple: If I ram my car into the rear end of someone else's car and am found at fault then MY insurance is responsible for repairing not only the damage done to MY vehicle but also for any damage and medical bills for the car that I hit. At least that's how it works where I live.

  10. #55
    I'm a bit dissapointed this mechanic doesn't cover NPC kills as well. I always thought this change was about closing the suicidewinder exploit, not just for dealing with gankers/griefers.

    There are people out there that use the suicidewinder exploit for NPC bounties, and i feel that is still wrong.

    Do the crime, do the time.

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    I'm a bit dissapointed this mechanic doesn't cover NPC kills as well. I always thought this change was about closing the suicidewinder exploit, not just for dealing with gankers/griefers.

    There are people out there that use the suicidewinder exploit for NPC bounties, and i feel that is still wrong.

    Do the crime, do the time.
    Yeah, even if the NPC murder won't incur the PF bounty, the exploit loophole should be closed there as well. I'll be testing the PF bounty mechanic in beta and look forward to posting opinions and results:

    Also, just curious.... why does the rebuy cost only get added if within the offending system? Does this mean the offending player can just go to the next system over, dock and swap to a sidewinder, sell the modules and weapons and then get his/herself killed and not pay that extra fines?

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    I'm a bit dissapointed this mechanic doesn't cover NPC kills as well. I always thought this change was about closing the suicidewinder exploit, not just for dealing with gankers/griefers.

    There are people out there that use the suicidewinder exploit for NPC bounties, and i feel that is still wrong.

    Do the crime, do the time.
    Agree to that, even if I feel that this type of punishment will have less effect than intended.
    I don't believe it wouldn't change the mind of griefers and gankers and won't make them stay away from their doing.

    But nowadays I believe this is the plan because FD wants them to create their 'cont...' game inside Elite.
    Myself had summed up the damage (the rebuys pilots did pay to their losses) caused and presented the bill on
    the rebuy screen...., but this is possibly contradicting the plans FD has.

    Regards,
    Miklos
    You can't treat a computer like humans; a computer needs love.

  13. #58
    it's a good idea as long as it's properly implemented, as others have said it's open to exploits already.

    I would like to see a ramming penalty where a ship collides with another on purpose to get the target destroyed.
    -EdzUp
    CMDR EdzUp
    EdzUp's website

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by Ozram View Post (Source)
    Also, just curious.... why does the rebuy cost only get added if within the offending system? Does this mean the offending player can just go to the next system over, dock and swap to a sidewinder, sell the modules and weapons and then get his/herself killed and not pay that extra fines?
    Urk? Have you tested this? If so, seems like a glaring loophole.

    Originally Posted by Miklos Atreides View Post (Source)
    Agree to that, even if I feel that this type of punishment will have less effect than intended.
    I don't believe it wouldn't change the mind of griefers and gankers and won't make them stay away from their doing.
    I don't think its intended to change their minds. Just make sure people can't clear their bounties on the cheap and then go back to cruising in a system without worries about the cops. Sure, most will say i think that the NPC cops are easy, but they can still be an annoyance to people for example camping stations. A bit hard to sit silent running waiting to blow someone up when the cops are firing on you.

  15. #60
    You absolutely have to extend it for normal bounties too. There's plenty of undirect PvP activities, like BGS, Powerplay etc, which suffer the problem of CMDRs doing all the killing they want to suicide with a sidewinder immediately after. That's just stupid, it's immersion-breaking and totally unfair.

    You should pay for your crimes (every crime) with the ship you made those crimes with.

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