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Thread: Why does HSL synthesis require manmade mats? Useless for exploration???

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    go stuff yourself
    I too can take a quote completely out of context of the whole of what I was saying, and use that as a straw-man I can attack.

    How very rude of you!

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    I honestly can`t understand this. They can easily collect materials for how many? 30-40 heatsink charges but they still complain? How much they really need?

    To me, this complains sound like: "I need unlimited charges or else this features completely useless". Doesn`t this sound a little too greedy?
    Being able to collect materials for restock during the trip would add another activity to do out in the black.

    That isn't a greedy request for unlimited charges.

    It's a request for something more to do out in the black instead of having to farm the resources within inhabited space.

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    Being able to collect materials for restock during the trip would add another activity to do out in the black.

    That isn't a greedy request for unlimited charges.

    It's a request for something more to do out in the black instead of having to farm the resources within inhabited space.

    It is much more sense to collect materials for something useful like FSD injection.

    And I ask again, how much heatsink charges explorer need? 20? 50? over 9000!!?

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    No, they probably not.

    Explorer can easily go for 10.000 jump without single use of heatsink, why he should bother about synthesis?
    Just don't start with an assumption and then build an entire case against collecting material type a, because this silly when there is plenty of type b in the bubble. Because this is a fairly ignorant approach that is no different to me telling a combat pilot they have to spend 12 hours driving on the surface of a planet 10,000 LY from the bubble.

    Spending time visiting USS and hunting for dead ships or making ships dead to collect their bits doesn't improve exploration; it's time spent expressly not exploring. Pretending this is some sort of skill or proves one is a better Explorer is just nonsense.

    Synthesis has actually been asked for, repeatedly by the very people you're dismissing.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    It is much more sense to collect materials for something useful like FSD injection.

    And I ask again, how much heatsink charges explorer need? 20? 50? over 9000!!?
    How do I do that when I have to leave space for synthesis of materials that I can't replace? This, again, is no smarter than me demanding you go out 10,000 LY to collect some special dust for rearm. It's just stupid.

    I don't care whether you grasp the great irony of your complaint or not. So I'll just disagree with your assumptive reasoning and move on.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    And I ask again, how much heatsink charges explorer need? 20? 50? over 9000!!?
    None, really.

    Did you understand anything I said?

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Just don't start with an assumption and then build an entire case against collecting material type a, because this silly when there is plenty of type b in the bubble. Because this is a fairly ignorant approach that is no different to me telling a combat pilot they have to spend 12 hours driving on the surface of a planet 10,000 LY from the bubble.
    Don`t topic title do the same? "Useless for exploration" seriously??

    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Spending time visiting USS and hunting for dead ships or making ships dead to collect their bits doesn't improve exploration; it's time spent expressly not exploring. Pretending this is some sort of skill or proves one is a better Explorer is just nonsense.
    So spending time for visiting USS it not ok, but spending hours driving on the surface of a planet it ok right? Why you wanna force combat pilots to do it?

    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Synthesis has actually been asked for, repeatedly by the very people you're dismissing.
    And soon they will have it, but why they complaining?


    You are explorer right? If so, can you honestly tell me how many heatsinks you used when exploring from the beginning of the game?

  8. #38
    Please don't. Just. Don't. It's fine. I'm tired of people trying to play the game for me. I'm done. Fly safe.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    None, really.

    Did you understand anything I said?
    English not my native language, so it possible that I don`t understand you correctly.

    Correct me if I wrong, but you saying that collecting material for heatsink it something to do when you exploring right?

    I have different opinion, and it is: Explorer don`t need collect materials for heatsinks because they can have way more that enough stored in their ship. In other hand, combat player can use all of his heatsinsk in single battle, and it will be very nice if he can replenish them using what left from enemy ship. Force him to dock, or go to the planet surface don`t add anything good to the game.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    English not my native language, so it possible that I don`t understand you correctly.

    Correct me if I wrong, but you saying that collecting material for heatsink it something to do when you exploring right?

    I have different opinion, and it is: Explorer don`t need collect materials for heatsinks because they can have way more that enough stored in their ship. In other hand, combat player can use all of his heatsinsk in single battle, and it will be very nice if he can replenish them using what left from enemy ship.
    That's all correct.

    But a combat commander doesn't technically need to use heat sinks either. You can fight perfectly fine without them.

    There is no need to do anything, but a desire.

    I mean, what exactly do you fly a digital pretend space ship for?

    If you can restock something more frequently, you also gain the ability to use it more frequently.
    It would allow explorers to be adventurous more frequently :)
    (like above mentioned hot landings in close proximity to a star)

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    That's all correct.

    But a combat commander doesn't technically need to use heat sinks either. You can fight perfectly fine without them.

    There is no need to do anything, but a desire.

    I mean, what exactly do you fly a digital pretend space ship for?

    If you can restock something more frequently, you also gain the ability to use it more frequently.
    It would allow explorers to be adventurous more frequently
    (like above mentioned hot landings in close proximity to a star)
    Yes, i see and understood yours opinion, but can you understand my?

    For example, miners use limpets, so limpet synthesis use mining material, make sense right?

    Chaff is a combat modules, so chaff synthesis use... materials from destroyed ships. Make perfect sense again, don`t you agree?

    Now about heatsinks, heatsink it a (SURPRISE!!) combat modules too, it was design to balance heat from weapon and SCB. Sure they have other applications outside combat, but it only wonderful side effects, not intended features. So why they should`t use materials from destroyed ships?


    Explorers still can have advances from heatsink synthesis, they can have only 1 launcher fitted and material storage can have 1000 materials, so explorer can have hundreds of heatsinks charges, doesn`t it so much better that you have now?

    But i have expression that some players don`t care about other opinions but they own. And, like Kofeyh said, "I'm tired of people trying to play the game for me."

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    Yes, i see and understood yours opinion, but can you understand my?

    For example, miners use limpets, so limpet synthesis use mining material, make sense right?

    Chaff is a combat modules, so chaff synthesis use... materials from destroyed ships. Make perfect sense again, don`t you agree?

    Now about heatsinks, heatsink it a (SURPRISE!!) combat modules too, it was design to balance heat from weapon and SCB. Sure they have other applications, but it only wonderful side effects, not intended features. So why they should`t use materials from destroyed ships?


    Explorers still can have advances from heatsink synthesis, they can have only 1 launcher fitted and material storage can have 1000 materials, so explorer can have hundreds of heatsinks charges, doesn`t it so much better that you have now?

    But i have expression that some players don`t care about other opinions but they own. And, like Kofeyh said, "I'm tired of people trying to play the game for me."
    Heatsinks were never specifically for combat use, therein lies the flaw in your thought process on this matter.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Andrej View Post (Source)
    Yes, i see and understood yours opinion, but can you understand my?

    For example, miners use limpets, so limpet synthesis use mining material, make sense right?

    Chaff is a combat modules, so chaff synthesis use... materials from destroyed ships. Make perfect sense again, don`t you agree?

    Now about heatsinks, heatsink it a (SURPRISE!!) combat modules too, it was design to balance heat from weapon and SCB. Sure they have other applications, but it only wonderful side effects, not intended features. So why they should`t use materials from destroyed ships?
    Nothing in Elite is balanced that way. Limpet synthesis for example is mostly useless to miners, because you expend far more limpets than you obtain materials required to restock them.
    (and limpets are used by pirates, scavengers, pirates, fuel rats and more)

    And a heat sink module is there for one purpose only: ejecting heat. Regardless of where that heat comes from. Be it from internal modules (everything generates heat); From weapons/shield cell banks; Or external sources such as stars.


    I can understand parts of your opinion, because I've expressed it myself first in this thread ;p

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    Heatsinks were never specifically for combat use, therein lies the flaw in your thought process on this matter.
    Interesting, can you enlighten me, what main reason, in yours opinion, to introduce them in the game? I pretty sure that early beta don`t have them.

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    I would've thought this is deliberate. Not complicated or ignorant.
    Yep. As designed heat sink synth is currently a combat feature because explorers won't have access to the required mats out in deep space. It is what it is, but it is certainly intentionally designed that way; for whatever reason Frontier doesn't want this new feature being used by explorers.

    In the end it's a moot point though, because 2.4 will be removing the only real reason explorers need heatsinks anyway. With the jump in mechanic changes where you now jump in safely far away from multi-star systems, explorers will barely ever need heatsinks anymore at all as the danger of multi-star systems is being removed.

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