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Thread: Why does HSL synthesis require manmade mats? Useless for exploration???

  1. #1

    Why does HSL synthesis require manmade mats? Useless for exploration???

    I'd hazard a guess that the exploration community have been crying out for HSL ammo to be added to Synthesis for quite a while.

    And yay in Beta 2.4 we have it added!!

    Except it needs exclusively man made materials to build them.

    I haven't had a chance to see if any other man-made mat's have been included elsewhere in Synthesis but it seems that HSL ammo is the only one. This makes no sense when the group who have most use for this new feature, the Explorers, can't use it and those for whom it'll make only a marginal improvement (I'm guessing at significant build times right?), the Fighters, will have unlimited access to the materials needed...


    Seems a tad unfair. Or did I miss something?

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by GunnerBill View Post (Source)
    I'd hazard a guess that the exploration community have been crying out for HSL ammo to be added to Synthesis for quite a while.

    And yay in Beta 2.4 we have it added!!

    Except it needs exclusively man made materials to build them.

    I haven't had a chance to see if any other man-made mat's have been included elsewhere in Synthesis but it seems that HSL ammo is the only one. This makes no sense when the group who have most use for this new feature, the Explorers, can't use it and those for whom it'll make only a marginal improvement (I'm guessing at significant build times right?), the Fighters, will have unlimited access to the materials needed...


    Seems a tad unfair. Or did I miss something?
    Yeah that does seem wrong to me. I get that FDev don't want heatsinks to be too easy to synth, but in that case the synth recipe should use rare(ish) mineable materials.

  3. #3
    Do they the materials needed appear in those ship wreck Degraded Emissions USSes you occasionally come across out in the black?

    Sure Heat Conduction Wiring does

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    Do they the materials needed appear in those ship wreck Degraded Emissions USSes you occasionally come across out in the black?

    Sure Heat Conduction Wiring does
    If we are going to hinge such a basic mechanic as 'rearm HSL' to 'may be in USS that may be in systems but not very often, and those that just as likely a bug, as intentional' then I'd humbly suggest it's probably not going to work as intended. It also means valuable space used for jumponium, AFMU rearm and so on is now sacrificed for a non-renewable resource.

    I still would have thought basic ore for basic HSL rearm, would have been sufficient. Keep the tech materials for the two premium re-arm tiers. This seems fairly intuitive, perhaps this is why it isn't the case? Because that would have just been too simple and intuitive.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  5. #5
    Too late for 2.4, but why not crafting manmade materials out of the elements? First of all, the recipes for each manmade material need to be gathered from different sources. For higher grade materials you need higher grade of elements and crafted basic materials. This would also relief the materials storage, as you can craft most things out of the elements on demand. Just an idea.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    Do they the materials needed appear in those ship wreck Degraded Emissions USSes you occasionally come across out in the black?

    Sure Heat Conduction Wiring does
    I'm on the since a month or so I've been travelling from Bubble - Colonia - SagA* and I'm now into the Beagle Point leg.

    I may be wrong but since leaving the Bubble I have only ever seen USS's when closing in on Colonia. I personally haven't seen any when out in the proper black.

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by GunnerBill View Post (Source)
    I haven't had a chance to see if any other man-made mat's have been included elsewhere in Synthesis but it seems that HSL ammo is the only one.
    Chaff is the second one.

    Originally Posted by GunnerBill View Post (Source)
    those for whom it'll make only a marginal improvement (I'm guessing at significant build times right?), the Fighters, will have unlimited access to the materials needed...
    Fighters expend heat sinks far more often than explorers.

    Originally Posted by GunnerBill View Post (Source)
    Seems a tad unfair. Or did I miss something?
    You can stock up on these materials. You can now carry hundreds of spare heat sinks with just one launcher. Also there are tons of deep space ports all over the galaxy, giving explorers access to manufactured material restock.

  8. #8
    Because heat sinks are not exploration only? Combat and even trade ships use them as well so it just makes sense to demand multiple different material types for a module that can be used for multiple different purposes.
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Crimson Kaim View Post (Source)
    Because heat sinks are not exploration only? Combat and even trade ships use them as well so it just makes sense to demand multiple different material types for a module that can be used for multiple different purposes.
    All types of player have access to basic mats, the current ones exclude explorers, as kofeyh said:

    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    I still would have thought basic ore for basic HSL rearm, would have been sufficient. Keep the tech materials for the two premium re-arm tiers.

    and then
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    Also there are tons of deep space ports all over the galaxy, giving explorers access to manufactured material restock.
    restock mats at port? You'll have to explain how we get Basic Conductors or Heat Conduction Wiring from ports, I don't see how. And as for 'tons' of ports - depends where you go

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Crimson Kaim View Post (Source)
    Because heat sinks are not exploration only? Combat and even trade ships use them as well so it just makes sense to demand multiple different material types for a module that can be used for multiple different purposes.
    Wait, that doesn't make sense. If they can be used in many situations, then it follows that the recipe should be something that anyone can get. Otherwise you'd end up with something like needing to hand in 1M in combat vouchers to unlock Felicity Farseer, because combat pilots use long range FSDs.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by Factabulous View Post (Source)
    restock mats at port? You'll have to explain how we get Basic Conductors or Heat Conduction Wiring from ports, I don't see how. And as for 'tons' of ports - depends where you go
    I never said you restock at the ports themselves. They do create inhabited space within which you can get these.

    Exactly how many heat sinks do you need between any point in the galaxy and the nearest port?

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    Exactly how many heat sinks do you need between any point in the galaxy and the nearest port?
    This isn't the point; it's that Frontier have purposefully tied HSL use to combat and or occupied space; that might be convenient if you're tooling around in occupied space, but surely both options solve the problem?

    Basic mats, basic heatsinks; technology mats, premium heatsinks. This just should not be as complicated and ignorant of actual game mechanics as it currently is.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  13. #13
    I would've thought this is deliberate. Not complicated or ignorant.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    I would've thought this is deliberate. Not complicated or ignorant.
    A thing can be a deliberate action that is ignorant of outcomes. But this is just splitting hairs. Frontier has made a choice that HSL rearm is essentially an occupied system only mechanic; that's fine, but it's making several assumptions.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  15. #15
    Given that Sandro has stated that synthesis will be changed such that it will be halted if the ship sustains damage - in order to mitigate synthesis being used to spam ammo, heatsink etc. during battle, now would be a good time to change the materials required for synthesis of heatsinks.

    That change there makes any argument against changing heatsink recipe to something a bit more explorer-friendly, moot.

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