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Thread: Serious Question, Why cant we name and shame ?

  1. #136
    Originally Posted by metascrawl View Post (Source)
    Lol, since when are Frontier Developments 'big business?' But anyway, it probably wouldn't even get that far. FD wouldn't probably just settle straight away as it might well be cheaper than going to court even if they eventually won.
    Not necessarily FD itself, but in general. Most juries wouldn't know the difference between EA and FD if their lives depended on it, but they'd likely assume that a 'game developer' would have a fair pile of cash in the bank. The developer wanting to settle isn't a guarantee, however. A plaintiff can insist on a jury trial, and even if they lose, the developer has lost a ton of money in the defense.

    Which is basically the point of the rule against naming and shaming. Eliminate the possibilities as much as you can, so you don't end up on the short end of 12 idiots that just might think you deserve to be a millionaire because you're stupid enough to spill coffee in your lap.

    Or because someone hurt your feelings on the internet.

  2. #137
    Originally Posted by metascrawl View Post (Source)
    Lol, since when are Frontier Developments 'big business?'
    They have over 250 employees, which does make them a big business.

  3. #138
    Originally Posted by Valethar View Post (Source)
    Not necessarily FD itself, but in general. Most juries wouldn't know the difference between EA and FD if their lives depended on it, but they'd likely assume that a 'game developer' would have a fair pile of cash in the bank. The developer wanting to settle isn't a guarantee, however. A plaintiff can insist on a jury trial, and even if they lose, the developer has lost a ton of money in the defense.

    Which is basically the point of the rule against naming and shaming. Eliminate the possibilities as much as you can, so you don't end up on the short end of 12 idiots that just might think you deserve to be a millionaire because you're stupid enough to spill coffee in your lap.

    Or because someone hurt your feelings on the internet.
    To be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Win, lose or settle, lawsuits cost a lot of money. It's particularly easy to sue for libel in the UK too, that's why we have 'libel tourism' case in which foreign parties sue other foreign parties using our court system, which they can do if the allegedly libellous material is available here in any way. But that's a subject for another place and time

  4. #139
    Originally Posted by CMDR Crank Larson View Post (Source)
    They have over 250 employees, which does make them a big business.
    Well it's all relative I suppose. Some firms employ tens or even hundreds of thousands of people all over the world. That's what the term 'big business' conjures up for me.

  5. #140
    Originally Posted by Stigbob View Post (Source)
    It's a good rule.

    Imagine a website where people could name and shame as they pleased or even collect lists of CMDR's to KOS, requiring no evidence or quality control and being run by some players who got caught exploiting the 5-1 cheat. Sounds like a terrible easily exploited idea doesn't it.

    Just like the reddit cloggers page.
    Name and shame with no evidence is not really the issue here. It truly is a case of no "in-game" solution at present.

    Plenty have suggested a name and shame only with proof - but honestly, an in game solution is the best solution. This goes for everything by the way, from my point of view. I still don't understand why I need Inara and ED Engineer to figure out if I have the mats I need or not, and what engineers actually do what mods, and to what level.

    I'll stop there, because I can get pretty wound up on this topic, needless to say, I do have hope that 3.0 will bring some good background and core gameplay updates that ED updates that ED really needs.

    Z...

  6. #141
    Probably because they don't want the forum to be inundated with caustic threads.

  7. #142
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    Probably because they don't want the forum to be inundated with caustic threads.
    Oh wait.....

  8. #143
    ITT: "Political correctness" red-herring going full steam

    Originally Posted by Kyokushin View Post (Source)
    Yepp.
    You cannot disagree. You can only be silent.
    But do not worry, it will not take long. I am giving max 20 years, after that if You do not want to be a part of falling europe, better move to the east.

    Its not hard to manage 100k users forum, and keep discussions civil, but without political correctness crap. I owe that kind of forum since 12 years.
    There are bans, there are warnings, swearing is not allowed. But allowed is saying things as they are, in straight.
    You're saying this in a thread where players are voicing their disagreement about the rule, whether their disagreement has merit or not, and not getting punished for it.

    Way to go, guy.

  9. #144
    I really wish they added a feature for us to ADD bounties on CMDRS!!! it be so fun and very easy to do!!!

    now i know i Might not see the FULL picture but im sure it could PROPERLY be implemented!

    1: you may only place a bounty on a CMDR that has Killed you! ( if a CMDR kills 10 CDMR he could be worth more )
    that way you cant play the naming game. if he killed you then you can put a bounty on his head! ( Suicide into a asteroid after being hit a couple time would not allow to add bounties . a LAST hit is required and/or a % of damage taken)

    2: Limit the Credit reward Depending on his Ship , fighting skill, CMDR's total credit balance and or Assets!
    so this way a new player cant just join and kill his friend for 1B!! .. If a new players kills a Veteran he might get 50,000cretis and the Veteran could have to pay 50M for insurance! BUT if 2 veterans go at it then the reward could be greater?!

    3: Make ALL player kills in Anarchy system Fair play!! no bounties can be added! ( would add a definite PvP sections! )

    if you really need to go to a Anarchy system and dont want to die , then just hop over to solo/private play )

    4: CMDR with bounties on their head would become Visible in the Galaxy map to ANY CMDR with the current bounty!
    you could have special Stations that you need to go to to get these bounties and maybe even need some SPECIAL requirement(like engineers) before being able to take bounties ( this would be an other good way to prevent new players in a Sidewinder from killing friends for some BIG $$$ ) . CMDRs would not be visible in the system map you would only know WHAT system hes in.

    5: If a CMDR has a bounty on his Head from killing you in a exp: a Cutter and then he switched to a different Ship example: a sidewinder and then he dies in his Sidewinder (to an other CMDR with the bounty missing ). the CMDR would need to pay his SideWinder insurence + an Additional Fee that he would otherwise have LOST if he was still in his Cutter!
    this could Prevent CMDR from switching ships if he knew he had bounties on his head to prevent losing more cash to the insurance value of his Bigger ship!and also prevent New CMDR from taking advantage of the system by killing their Veteran friend.

    6: If a CMDR with a bounty on his head Dies in ANY WAY but to a CMDR with the specific Bounty Mission the Bounty REMAINS!
    this would prevent players from *running form their problems* you cant just get out of it! bounties are for life or until the Bounty is claimed!

    7: This would Help Protect New players from rage quitting after a couple weeks by giving them some hope! and also Keep old veterans coming back for more! giving us a PURPOSE! we already have BH for NPc why cant we have it for CMDRs...


    8: My main play stile and im sure the same for other is BOUNTY HUNTING.. and honestly bounty hunting NPCs in Rez sites and or chasing this one random NPC from a mission is BORING as hell!! i don't need cash i need FUN
    Honestly it is MIND BLOWING how adding bounties on CMDR is not a thing.... this is a simulator right?! in a HUGE EMPTY BORING SIMULATING GALAXY!


    Adding a bounty Hunting Feature / PVP system would be VERY doable and could make it so its less of a reward feature but more of a FUN play feature! Right now *GREIFERS* and PvP players are roaming the Galaxy UNCHECK!! we NEED a POLICE system!! this only make sens! and Frankly im Tired of BH for NPCs all the time...

  10. #145
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    Oh boy, one of these.

    Okay, let me try and tackle this one succinctly, because over the years I've answered it so many times... it has a tendency to run on.

    These forums are owned by us and are therefore our responsibility. In most countries, libel and defamation laws exist. While it may seem like a stretch for a gaming forum N&S to turn into real-world, actionable libel/defamation case, Zac and I have seen this happen in a previous placed we worked. By the time thee claims had been verified it was already too late and the victim of this case had already been seriously affected in their daily life. The rule has become standard across most communications platforms (public ones, at least) owned by companies and communities. There are enough examples of these things going South that it's just a good idea to have in place from the beginning.

    It's a form of harassment. As with all forms of harassment, they should be reported directly to Frontier so that we can take action where necessary.

    There are a few other reasons, but the above are the ones that really matter. The rest are subjective and have probably been discussed a number of times already throughout the years of these forums' existence.

    As far as in-game means to 'exact revenge' or to punish griefers and whatnot: that's a whole different subject from the OP and something that's actively being worked on with the Crime & Punishment systems that the dev team are working on currently. This might not resolve the issue all at once, but the idea is to create a fair way to make sure aggressors are appropriately punished.

    Tl;dr... the forums are owned by Frontier and it's our responsibility to make sure harassment, libel, illegal activities, etc. etc. don't occur here.

    Also... because we said so...? ;p
    Marry me Dale, I'm so in love with you

  11. #146
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)

    -snip-

    however, keep in mind that attacking other players in the game is not in itself harassment. Repeatedly targeting and singling out someone with the intention to harass them, on the other hand, should be reported.
    Now I'm really in love with you.

    That's going to be my signature from now on.

    Word should be spread in all threads.

  12. #147
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    Said "legal" concerns are a perfect example of the world going soft.

    When you can sue someone for hurting your feelings...

    Totally understand FD needing to cover themselves, of course, but as an example, a computer related forum I am on in Aus does not allow vendor reviews. This means we can't say if a vendor we purchase from is good or bad, because of fears of slander. It's kind of sad, and I'm sure there are some cases of people trying to stomp a vendors name into the ground because they feel hard done by, but simply allowing the vendor a response should be enough to provide a counter viewpoint.

    It gets to the point where telling the truth about a shopping experience can actually get the web site itself into legal trouble. It's madness.

    Z...
    No. It's "legal concerns" as in, naming and shaming a known "Griefer" on YouTube, some nutcase actually being able to track/hack his personal info, leading to harass him in real life. In extreme cases, N&S has lead to suicides and physical aggression. Needless to say, that brings a huge problem to the Devs/Game Company.

    It has nothing to do with "world gone soft".

    It's actually being reasonable. And measuring the consequences of your acts.

    When in-game drama leads to real life aggression, that's when it's a real problem.

  13. #148
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    Pretty much as has been said above - society has gone spineless. Everybody is too worried about everyone else, and has all but forgotten about themselves. We walk around miserable because we think if we're happy, someone else is not. And spending so much time worrying about those who are unwilling to worry about themselves, take care of themselves, entertain themselves, be happy themselves, makes everyone else miserable.

    We make up nonsense words, denigrate ourselves, abandon common sense because someone else might feel bad. And then we top off this giant s--t sundae with media sensationalism then put a big dingleberry on top of it by shaming anyone who questions what's wrong with this picture.

    Shame on all of us for allowing this to happen.
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    Could you imagine if, instead, they took a backboned position and said "You people created this, you work it out for yourselves."? Make people take responsibility for their own actions? Inconceivable.

    We all know we're not responsible for our own actions, we're just victims.
    Wow - you don't sound bitter!

    ...may I borrow your copy of the Daily Mail when you've finished with it? What is the headline this morning? 'Middle aged people lose their minds over worst weather for a decade on its way, leading to more immigrants - coming over here for our free rain - causing house prices to plummet & Queen has a nice dress for the occasion'?

    The bigger follow-on question is 'Why don't the mods allow ripping the urine'? in addition to naming & shaming - this forum is inert with no edge to it - Dull dull dull!

    I've had more comments removed than you can imagine (my best ones too!). My favourite target is a certain boy wizard, but the mods protect him from any criticism. Just let me remind you of the annoyance, bad feeling & general grief he causes, affecting players' hard work in the game, not to mention the disastrous impression his vids give about Elite's player base...whereas I have NEVER caused any irritation (in game anyway ) by hindering cmdrs' progress for my own moronic jollies or possibly impacting David Braben's revenue streams by making players leave the game through bad experiences - yet I'm the one who is banned from Frontier's official forums (more often than Justin Gatlin, these days) for mild ribbing...okay, maybe savage ribbing!

    Originally Posted by EvE4evah View Post (Source)
    Marry me Dale, I'm so in love with you
    Originally Posted by EvE4evah View Post (Source)
    Now I'm really in love with you.

    That's going to be my signature from now on.

    Word should be spread in all threads.
    Let's play 'Spot the stalker'

    Run Dale, run!

  14. #149
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    These forums are owned by us and are therefore our responsibility. In most countries, libel and defamation laws exist. While it may seem like a stretch for a gaming forum N&S to turn into real-world, actionable libel/defamation case, Zac and I have seen this happen in a previous placed we worked. By the time thee claims had been verified it was already too late and the victim of this case had already been seriously affected in their daily life. The rule has become standard across most communications platforms (public ones, at least) owned by companies and communities. There are enough examples of these things going South that it's just a good idea to have in place from the beginning.

    It's a form of harassment. As with all forms of harassment, they should be reported directly to Frontier so that we can take action where necessary.

    There are a few other reasons, but the above are the ones that really matter. The rest are subjective and have probably been discussed a number of times already throughout the years of these forums' existence.
    I always assumed the N&S rule rested on the wish to prevent witch hunts and whole parts of the community starting to take on single CMDR's for an aledged unfair offence, which was totally understandable IMHO. Chasing a CMDR so he flees out of Open or even quits the game is not OK, whatever he did (even more since almost anything he may have done is backed by FD as part of the gameplay).

    But if THIS is your absolute top main reason for that rule, sorry, I must say this is absolute BS. Libel and defamation can only exist in anonymous Internet if it goes pair with doxing. Noone can be sued for defamating an avatar, as it is neither a Moral nor a physical person. Imagine the face of the judge reading the Statement of case of a lawsuit filed p.e. by a "CMDR Harry Potter" . To prevent what you mention, it is totally sufficient to forbid doxing (which I believe you do anyway, or don't you?).

  15. #150
    Originally Posted by valbarr View Post (Source)
    Just a bit curious why we cant name and shame people, if someone has for example killed a new player, why cant we name and shame them, wouldnt that be a form of crime and punishment, then players who want to be white knights would know who to go after.

    and the people who were shamed, would get a bit of proper competition, instead of just killing newbies, they would get a fair fight with someone else ?

    what is frontiers rational for protecting people that attack other people who have zero chance against them ? but at the same time providing zero protection for the people who cant protect themselves ?

    remember at school the kid that would get bullied and would tell the teachers and they would tell the bullied kid not to tell tales ? in this instance frontier is the teacher. can anyone shed some light for me please ?
    You can, post your name and shame on Reddit, then create a post that links to it from here.

    You just can't name and shame directly on the forums because....

    Just because ok!

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