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Thread: Serious Question, Why cant we name and shame ?

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by valbarr View Post (Source)
    how would that be any more griefing than what we currently have, people in wings of 4 corvettes waiting outside stations to gank newbies in sidewinders ?
    I think the game needs less griefing, not more. Putting a thin veneer of authority over it doesn't really change that.

  2. #47
    ...isn't sure what's going on. Moderator T.j's Avatar
    The reason Naming and Shaming is not allowed on the forum is quite simple.

    It's the decision of Frontier to not allow Naming and Shaming.

    Rule 13

    Originally Posted by Brett C View Post (Source)
    We do not permit our forums to be used as a medium to name and shame, or to witch-hunt other people in our games.
    In game there is a reporting function where your report will be reviewed and if necessary acted on.

    If it was allowed it could easily be abused for personal reasons/disagreement etc.

  3. #48
    OP. Why should we be allowed to name and shame? What a waste of time, energy, emotion & effort. If one feels someone has "wronged" them, isn't it better to forgive? Rather than incite hate and animosity?

  4. #49
    It's because ELITE and Frontier live in a "reverse world", almost Orwellian.

    Classic example :
    - Ganker harassing another Player and destroying the other Ship. Records footage for personal perverse satisfaction and posts the link (usually with attention-seeking Thread title) here in the Forum.

    Rating : fully okay, Frontier Forum rules fully support public display of antisocial behaviour and ridiculing victims.

    - the Person who got ganked and ridiculed in the public Video comes to the Forum, asks "Just got attacked 5 times in a row and destroyed by CMDR XXYYZZ for no apparent reason... Why? Can someone explain?"

    Rating : Moderation team instantly moves in and removes the CMDR Name, because that is considered Naming & Shaming. In fact, other pre-conditioned Forum Members will jump in and immediately report it.

    Utterly bizarre, isn't it? Talk about solid double-standards...
    As a side-effect, just like in-game, the "bad guys" who already hold every advantage in the books carry that advantage over even here into the Forum.
    In a sick way, that even kinda makes sense. Heavily perverted though, must say that. But all by itself, it's consequent and logical in its own sense.

  5. #50
    I will offer up a slightly different perspective even though I do feel our world has gotten a bit soft. The simple truth is that it does more harm than good.

    Way back, some 20 years ago, a certain software simulation company named and shamed publicly a single individual. It was for a pretty good reason as he was hacking the exe of a racing simulation. It allowed new tires on the fly and to remove the restrictor plate on super speedways and no doubt other things as well. The effect of the name and shame and subsequent resetting of this drivers stats to zero didnt end up really having the desired effect in the end. Its never been done again and not too long after that the name and shame policy came to be (if it wasnt already). Been that way every since and that company still exist mostly although by another name. Now they do permaban for such activities these days as well as other undesirable things but they dont name anyone and rarely report any stats on such things. Honestly, its for the best.

    Now thats from a company standpoint, individuals have no business doing it on the forums or facebook or where ever. Just let FDev handle it or what ever software company because they have a real and vested interest in it. All we can do is follow their policies.

  6. #51
    Originally Posted by zarrazee View Post (Source)
    OP. Why should we be allowed to name and shame? What a waste of time, energy, emotion & effort. If one feels someone has "wronged" them, isn't it better to forgive? Rather than incite hate and animosity?
    A wise man once said "Don't get mad, get even".

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by Ensign Ward View Post (Source)
    Rob At Work, Zeeman and Herbrand:
    I think you all know very well that this has nothing to do with "feelings" or "political correctness", and that it has everything to do with preventing mere accusations of poor player conduct turning into forum witch-hunting and in-game gank-fests with little or no regard for the basic concepts called "burden of proof" and "natural justice". Who gets to be the arbiter of whether someone's posted Youtube video is sufficient evidence of a player's poor conduct to warrant a mass revenge gank on that player? You?
    Right, everything related to this game is so over-moderated it isn't funny. You can't even name a ship after it's own name without being censored. (Try calling your "Assault ship" an "Assault ship", and see if other people see something other than stars...)

    Why not post the names of the CMDR's from that four on one ganking - if you have the evidence to back it up? It's OK to gang up on newbs, but not OK to deal with the consequences?

    I'm not saying it's OK to have "witch hunts", but at the moment, those witches can hunt and do as they like, with any sort of repercussion. And yet another "fine", no matter how big, isn't going to fix it. A lot of us are well beyond feeling the affects of fines - what's 50m cr to me? A multi billionaire? Lock me out of a few key systems, engineers and stations, and it may be a tad more interesting...

    As usual in this world, the wrong people are protected, and generally, they are also the ones best able to look after themselves.

    Z...

  8. #53
    And yet another thread showing how well allowing a mob rule name & shame policy would work

    anyway - same time tomorrow for the next version of this thread everyone - excellent work!

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    Because the world has gone soft. People get faux-offended at the drop of a hat, and there's always some child that wants to go and cry to their mummy because someone hurt their feelings.

    Seriously, Kelloggs needs to mix some concrete powder into their breakfast cereal, perhaps the world will harden up a bit...

    Z...
    SO MUCH REP.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by FalconFly View Post (Source)
    It's because ELITE and Frontier live in a "reverse world", almost Orwellian.

    Classic example :
    - Ganker harassing another Player and destroying the other Ship. Records footage for personal perverse satisfaction and posts the link (usually with attention-seeking Thread title) here in the Forum.

    Rating : fully okay, Frontier Forum rules fully support public display of antisocial behaviour and ridiculing victims.

    - the Person who got ganked and ridiculed in the public Video comes to the Forum, asks "Just got attacked 5 times in a row and destroyed by CMDR XXYYZZ for no apparent reason... Why? Can someone explain?"

    Rating : Moderation team instantly moves in and removes the CMDR Name, because that is considered Naming & Shaming. In fact, other pre-conditioned Forum Members will jump in and immediately report it.

    Utterly bizarre, isn't it? Talk about solid double-standards...
    As a side-effect, just like in-game, the "bad guys" who already hold every advantage in the books carry that advantage over even here into the Forum.
    In a sick way, that even kinda makes sense. Heavily perverted though, must say that. But all by itself, it's consequent and logical in its own sense.
    A-fracking-men.

    Z...

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    I'm not convinced, in all honesty, but I'll reserve judgement...
    Frontier is the supreme authority around here, they're the ones deciding what one can and can't do, and they're wise to not open the gates to mob rule: the very same people you'd try and use harassement against are probably much better and more dedicated towards making things up and manipulating the mob. Their main goal is to cause mischief, being able to use libel without accoutability is the best gift you can make them.

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by FalconFly View Post (Source)
    It's because ELITE and Frontier live in a "reverse world", almost Orwellian.

    Classic example :
    - Ganker harassing another Player and destroying the other Ship. Records footage for personal perverse satisfaction and posts the link (usually with attention-seeking Thread title) here in the Forum.

    Rating : fully okay, Frontier Forum rules fully support public display of antisocial behaviour and ridiculing victims.
    Have to say, you do kind of have a point there. Might be an idea for the 'no naming and shaming' to extend to the victims* in these videos.








    * I hate the term 'victim' because it's overblown, but you know what I mean.

  13. #58
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    Right, everything related to this game is so over-moderated it isn't funny. You can't even name a ship after it's own name without being censored. (Try calling your "Assault ship" an "Assault ship", and see if other people see something other than stars...)

    Why not post the names of the CMDR's from that four on one ganking - if you have the evidence to back it up. It's ok to gang up on newbs, but not OK to deal with the consequences?

    I'm not saying it's ok to have witch hunts, but at the moment, those witches can hunt and do as they like with any sort of repercussions. And yet another "fine", no matter how big, isn't going to fix it. A lot of us are well beyond feeling the affects of fines - what's 50m cr to me? A multi billionaire? Lock me out of a few key systems, engineers and stations, and it may be a tad more interesting...

    As usual in this world, the wrong people are protected, and generally, they are also the ones best able to look after themselves.

    Z...
    And some REP for you as well.

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by Sir T.j View Post (Source)
    The reason Naming and Shaming is not allowed on the forum is quite simple.

    It's the decision of Frontier to not allow Naming and Shaming.

    Rule 13



    In game there is a reporting function where your report will be reviewed and if necessary acted on.

    If it was allowed it could easily be abused for personal reasons/disagreement etc.
    Of course, this does only apply to these forums. Feel free to head on over to the septic tank known as reddit for all your naming-and-shaming needs.
    Or anywhere else on the internet for that matter.
    Organize your witch hunts on Insta-Twit or Snap-book or where ever else you like, but we'll have none of that here, else there will be strongly worded letters.

  15. #60
    Why? Because it's too hard to fact check and police, and more organised groups of players would victimise others.

    As a hypothetical example if i post: "some cmdr called 'Valbarr is griefing and killing new players at Eravate. When someone shot at him, he combat logged. I'm upload video now, but avoid Eravate because this VALBARR guy is a nasty griefer!". They coma along and see this, try to defend themselves, but if it's a front page post, the reputation damage has been done.

    Valbarr gets all salty, but if my intent is to disparage a good cmdr's name, i've done my job. When i don't upload the video in 24 hours or so, and mods take the post down, i won't care (especially id i've made a secondary account to do this).

    It just wouldn't work very well. Even video evidence, carefully edited, may show a cmdr defending themselves as the attacker.

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