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Thread: Serious Question, Why cant we name and shame ?

  1. #61
    Frustration can lead to irrationals and harmful behaviours.

    In the other hand, some people don't need to be frustrated to have harmful behaviours

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by valbarr View Post (Source)
    Serious Question, Why cant we name and shame ?
    You can, just not on these forums. The intention is to prevent these forums turning into more of a primary school playground than they already are... And in my opinion, these forums are a better due to this policy (and various others that you won't find on Reddit, for example).
    Duchess Commander Crank Larson

    Twitch | YouTube

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by Kevin Kyle View Post (Source)
    I will offer up a slightly different perspective even though I do feel our world has gotten a bit soft. The simple truth is that it does more harm than good.

    Way back, some 20 years ago, a certain software simulation company named and shamed publicly a single individual. It was for a pretty good reason as he was hacking the exe of a racing simulation. It allowed new tires on the fly and to remove the restrictor plate on super speedways and no doubt other things as well. The effect of the name and shame and subsequent resetting of this drivers stats to zero didnt end up really having the desired effect in the end. Its never been done again and not too long after that the name and shame policy came to be (if it wasnt already). Been that way every since and that company still exist mostly although by another name. Now they do permaban for such activities these days as well as other undesirable things but they dont name anyone and rarely report any stats on such things. Honestly, its for the best.

    Now thats from a company standpoint, individuals have no business doing it on the forums or facebook or where ever. Just let FDev handle it or what ever software company because they have a real and vested interest in it. All we can do is follow their policies.
    I've read this three times now, and I still have no idea... so what happened? Did this N&S'd person take a huge swan dive off a bridge or something, shouting "This Software Company drove me to this!" or something? A public service if that were the case, imo, but.. really, what came of it? What was the end result and the desired result? We need more details here.

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by wenkman View Post (Source)
    my try:

    because: somebody ganks you, you want to confront him.

    *IF* you want to come to an agreement and solve the conflict it is necessary to deliver this accusation directly in private.

    to place the accusation in public and not direct it at the other person in question but instead at the auditorium *always* escalates the conflict.

    so
    * make a post about a bad player and name him-> YOU are looking for trouble-> Bad
    * write the other player a PM -> good.

    (this is also true in real life)
    OK, let's play along here, because I do, as strange as it may seem, agree that a balanced viewpoint is needed.

    The problems are:

    1 - I can't send said person a message when I die (that I am aware of, been a while since anyone killed me, though). Even if only to tell him that I wish the fleas of a thousand camels may forever infest their armpits. Because, when I say harden up, I don't just mean a certain group of people, I do mean everyone. I can (and have) deal with a ganking.

    2 - Most gankers will either laugh at you, or ignore you. Not much resolution there.

    3 - there is simply no in-game way to resolve these situations. That's what is missing, victims feel they have no other recourse than to let loose on the forums. And again, the victim is silenced, but the perps can freely post videos of their kills, complete with laughter and ridicule.

    What I think is really needed, is a well thought out way of dealing with such things in game, including a list of people that have taken you out, so you can at least add them to your friends list, if nothing else, once you calm down, so that you can plot your revenge...

    Z...
    CMDR Barefoot Bandit
    Pilot of The Golden Phallus™

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...

  5. #65
    A little OT but i really have to comment on the whole "it's cos the world's gone soft" thing...

    What people don't seem to be considering is that a big part of not being all sensitive and right-on is the ability to accept that "them's the rules", put up with it and get on with your life.

    When you're moaning that "the world's gone soft" because you aren't allowed to voice an opinion anywhere that you want to, I'm afraid it's YOU that has gone soft for assuming that you do have some intrinsic right to say and do anything that you want, wherever you want to say and do it.

    Maybe the world has gone soft in a variety of ways but when you're whining about an internet forum which doesn't allow you free-reign to whine about other individuals (for perfectly valid reasons that have nothing to do with political correctness) then you really need to take a look in the mirror.

  6. #66
    You know, T.J... This is all your fault...

    Z...

    Originally Posted by Sir T.j View Post (Source)
    The reason Naming and Shaming is not allowed on the forum is quite simple.

    It's the decision of Frontier to not allow Naming and Shaming.

    Rule 13



    In game there is a reporting function where your report will be reviewed and if necessary acted on.

    If it was allowed it could easily be abused for personal reasons/disagreement etc.
    CMDR Barefoot Bandit
    Pilot of The Golden Phallus™

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...

  7. #67
    there is probably loads of sites out there for this purpose, what we need is a bounty board in ED where we can post bounties for creds which is available on the rebus screen.

    Edit: the bounty should never exceed the rebut of the posters ship to stop stupid bounties being posted.
    -EdzUp
    CMDR EdzUp
    EdzUp's website

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by FalconFly View Post (Source)
    It's because ELITE and Frontier live in a "reverse world", almost Orwellian.

    Classic example :
    - Ganker harassing another Player and destroying the other Ship. Records footage for personal perverse satisfaction and posts the link (usually with attention-seeking Thread title) here in the Forum.

    Rating : fully okay, Frontier Forum rules fully support public display of antisocial behaviour and ridiculing victims.

    - the Person who got ganked and ridiculed in the public Video comes to the Forum, asks "Just got attacked 5 times in a row and destroyed by CMDR XXYYZZ for no apparent reason... Why? Can someone explain?"

    Rating : Moderation team instantly moves in and removes the CMDR Name, because that is considered Naming & Shaming. In fact, other pre-conditioned Forum Members will jump in and immediately report it.

    Utterly bizarre, isn't it? Talk about solid double-standards...
    As a side-effect, just like in-game, the "bad guys" who already hold every advantage in the books carry that advantage over even here into the Forum.
    In a sick way, that even kinda makes sense. Heavily perverted though, must say that. But all by itself, it's consequent and logical in its own sense.
    Posting a video that shows some game action, and ranting about such action, are completely different. I don't know about others, but I ignore most of the videos that are posted here anyway - there isn't enough time in the day to watch everyone else's rubbish, I've enough of my own.
    Duchess Commander Crank Larson

    Twitch | YouTube

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    A little OT but i really have to comment on the whole "it's cos the world's gone soft" thing...

    What people don't seem to be considering is that a big part of not being all sensitive and right-on is the ability to accept that "them's the rules", put up with it and get on with your life.

    When you're moaning that "the world's gone soft" because you aren't allowed to voice an opinion anywhere that you want to, I'm afraid it's YOU that has gone soft for assuming that you do have some intrinsic right to say and do anything that you want, wherever you want to say and do it.

    Maybe the world has gone soft in a variety of ways but when you're whining about an internet forum which doesn't allow you free-reign to whine about other individuals then you really need to take a look in the mirror.
    I don't know about that. I don't really think much of it in general, it's more a case of shaking my head and rolling my eyes when I see examples of "softness" in the day to day world, I have a giggle, and move on.

    As for the internet forum, come on, it's kinda fun, and it is interesting to actually see other peoples viewpoints.

    Personally, I feel sorry for the victims, the ones getting ganked - that ain't me. I'm well and truly capable of looking after myself in open in ED.

    Like I said, the ultimate solution, is a good in-game solution.

    Z...
    CMDR Barefoot Bandit
    Pilot of The Golden Phallus™

    Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines...

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    What I think is really needed, is a well thought out way of dealing with such things in game, including a list of people that have taken you out, so you can at least add them to your friends list, if nothing else, once you calm down, so that you can plot your revenge...
    That's more like it!

    +1

    Surely the game could be adapted to compile the data from "Ship destroyed by Cmdr X" into a right-hand panel list - or at least a list accessible from the main menu. After all, revenge, from one commander to another, is well within the spirit of the game, and is best served cold.

    Combined with an effective C & P system, that idea would go along way to addressing some of these grievances I think.


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  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    OK, let's play along here, because I do, as strange as it may seem, agree that a balanced viewpoint is needed.

    The problems are:

    1 - I can't send said person a message when I die (that I am aware of, been a while since anyone killed me, though). Even if only to tell him that I wish the fleas of a thousand camels may forever infest their armpits. Because, when I say harden up, I don't just mean a certain group of people, I do mean everyone. I can (and have) deal with a ganking.

    2 - Most gankers will either laugh at you, or ignore you. Not much resolution there.

    3 - there is simply no in-game way to resolve these situations. That's what is missing, victims feel they have no other recourse than to let loose on the forums. And again, the victim is silenced, but the perps can freely post videos of their kills, complete with laughter and ridicule.

    What I think is really needed, is a well thought out way of dealing with such things in game, including a list of people that have taken you out, so you can at least add them to your friends list, if nothing else, once you calm down, so that you can plot your revenge...

    Z...
    yes, absolutely right in all points.

    wanted only to clarify:
    * a PM will solve nothing in 99% of the cases, but public naming/shaming will escalate 101% of the cases.
    * this only adresses naming/shaming, that was the question.

    C&P and maybe other ingame solutions are the only real way out. i mean: noob bashing in real life is not a thing where i live, i wonder why?
    The only thing against you in Elite Dangerous, is time. - Brett C (Source)

    Tools of the Trade (make the grind more effective)
    EDMC : Runs in the background and automatically puts market data into EDDB.
    EDDB : Searchable Database for Goods, Prices, Routes and all kinds of stuff.
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  12. #72
    Originally Posted by valbarr View Post (Source)
    Just a bit curious why we cant name and shame people,
    I'm surprised you of all people OP would ask this question based on the about of seal clubbing you have been seen doing.
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    For answer to Op's question see above

  13. #73
    Because malicious individuals would exploit it to harass people who are playing legitimately. Just like with every other tool they're given.

    Edit: On the topic of the borderline trolling with videos depicting griefing, I'd personally like to see the naming rule expanded to disallow posting any ingame footage of another player without their consent.
    "I want to be able to play a great game without being griefed by teenagers" - David Braben

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    Like I said, the ultimate solution, is a good in-game solution.

    Z...
    For sure.

    As long as the emphasis is on the word "good".
    A system that was open to abuse would be far, far, worse than no system at all.

    Let's face it, "normal" players aren't the ones who're likely to exploit things.
    "Normal" players aren't the ones who commit Sideycide twice a day to remove bounties or jump to multicrew ships mid-combat to avoid defeat.
    The sort of people who do that stuff are the people who're deliberately trying to "game the system" and they're sure as hell going to try just as hard to "game" any kind of in-game "retribution" system too so it's going to have to be absolutely bulletproof or it'll just end up inflicting harassment on people.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by Ensign Ward View Post (Source)
    Surely the game could be adapted to compile the data from "Ship destroyed by Cmdr X" into a right-hand panel list - or at least a list accessible from the main menu. After all, revenge, from one commander to another, is well within the spirit of the game, and is best served cold.
    Why? You can already see who killed you from the Contacts list. Just make a note or take whatever other action you want from that.

    I got destroyed by a ship I couldn't even see on my way down to some ruins at one point. The only way I could find who did it was to check the contact list. Not that it really bothered me - I wouldn't be playing in Open if I were concerned about random encounters with psychopaths...
    Duchess Commander Crank Larson

    Twitch | YouTube

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