Page 7 of 19 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 285

Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.
Thread: Serious Question, Why cant we name and shame ?

  1. #91
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    Also... because we said so...? ;p

    Like Space Legs, you mean? ;p

  2. #92
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    Oh boy, one of these.

    Okay, let me try and tackle this one succinctly, because over the years I've answered it so many times... it has a tendency to run on.

    These forums are owned by us and are therefore our responsibility. In most countries, libel and defamation laws exist. While it may seem like a stretch for a gaming forum N&S to turn into real-world, actionable libel/defamation case, Zac and I have seen this happen in a previous placed we worked. By the time thee claims had been verified it was already too late and the victim of this case had already been seriously affected in their daily life. The rule has become standard across most communications platforms (public ones, at least) owned by companies and communities. There are enough examples of these things going South that it's just a good idea to have in place from the beginning.

    It's a form of harassment. As with all forms of harassment, they should be reported directly to Frontier so that we can take action where necessary.

    There are a few other reasons, but the above are the ones that really matter. The rest are subjective and have probably been discussed a number of times already throughout the years of these forums' existence.

    As far as in-game means to 'exact revenge' or to punish griefers and whatnot: that's a whole different subject from the OP and something that's actively being worked on with the Crime & Punishment systems that the dev team are working on currently. This might not resolve the issue all at once, but the idea is to create a fair way to make sure aggressors are appropriately punished.

    Tl;dr... the forums are owned by Frontier and it's our responsibility to make sure harassment, libel, illegal activities, etc. etc. don't occur here.

    Also... because we said so...? ;p
    Dale, all of what you wrote above is fair, understandable, and sensible, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of it (not that I have a choice - but I agree anyway )

    I have in the past, been bitten by the 'name & shame' rule, for a video I made about station ganking - the sole and primary purpose of said video was to perform an autopsy of the nature of the station attack, and to show Sandro what was being done at the time - a combined Reverberating Cascade torpedo alpha strike and subsequent 'polishing off' with various enginerred weapons by other ships.

    The attack was being performed by a well known/notorious player of Polish origin, and their equally notorious cohorts.

    Certainly, the video named this individual, as you cannot help but do so when making a video about events which actually take place in-game. It's the definition of 'and shaming' which appeared to have bitten me. I think.

    Anyway - after a bit of protest, I had the infraction against me reversed.

    What I'm saying is - if one has video evidence directly from playing the game of what basically amounts to station camping, or using explorer ships as indiscriminate target practise at Thargoid content which Frontier deliberately places in the game and which also happen to be Lawless or Anarchy systems, then surely such a clear and factual video recording cannot in any manner be deemed either as 'naming and shaming' , nor as being somehow libelous or defamation?

    Because the facts of the incidents being carried out by the perpetrators are right in front of your eyes - this is not hearsay evidence or slanderous accusation when a video clearly shows "CMDR X has entered a Thargoid wreck area full of parked explorer ships and proceeds to blow them all up", for example.

  3. #93
    Originally Posted by daman View Post (Source)
    Their videos are all over the forum. I don't particularly care, but the sword should cut both ways.
    The sword does cut both ways - not much point in complaining here about rule infractions if you're not willing to report those infractions

    support your forum police

  4. #94
    Originally Posted by Lowievisser View Post (Source)
    PC , but it those days are numbered, winning!
    So despite what Dale said, you think that naming and shaming will be allowed in the future once the prevailing climate of political correctness has past? Even though he made it quite clear that it has nothing to do with that?

  5. This is the last staff post in this thread. #95
    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    --snip--

    What I'm saying is - if one has video evidence directly from playing the game of what basically amounts to station camping, or using explorer ships as indiscriminate target practise at Thargoid content which Frontier deliberately places in the game and which also happen to be Lawless or Anarchy systems, then surely such a clear and factual video recording cannot in any manner be deemed either as 'naming and shaming' , nor as being somehow libelous or defamation?

    Because the facts of the incidents being carried out by the perpetrators are right in front of your eyes - this is not hearsay evidence or slanderous accusation when a video clearly shows "CMDR X has entered a Thargoid wreck area full of parked explorer ships and proceeds to blow them all up", for example.
    You're right, there are times when said things do not technically count as N&S, but that's an extenuating circumstance that fell under a blanket rule rather than targeting you specifically on it. In those cases, said evidence can be submitted to us directly through our support channels so that the information and autopsy of what was being done - as you say - can still be passed to the team without action being taken against you for N&S.

    In most cases - which applies to everyone - when you want to target a single player or group with a report of some kind, it's best practice to do so directly with us. Especially in the case that you're reporting something that this player did wrong.

    As for videos attacking other people, this is one of the grey areas that I mentioned... and something perhaps that we'll need to review internally should it be as rampant as is being suggested; however, keep in mind that attacking other players in the game is not in itself harassment. Repeatedly targeting and singling out someone with the intention to harass them, on the other hand, should be reported.
    Totally not a Thargoid sympathiser and/or servant. Honest.

    Imperial, opulent, and endlessly rubbish with landing pads. :/

  6. #96
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    I've read this three times now, and I still have no idea... so what happened? Did this N&S'd person take a huge swan dive off a bridge or something, shouting "This Software Company drove me to this!" or something? A public service if that were the case, imo, but.. really, what came of it? What was the end result and the desired result? We need more details here.
    Well, I dont know all of the inside story and I doubt but a very small handful do. Still to this day this person bares the burden of what he done. Even though it was a bad thing, it doesnt deserve a lifelong shaming. It might even have had implications for future jobs as well. Im pretty sure there is more to the inside story I dont know about. It completely ruined his reputation in simulation racing by all that were there. Nor did it stop hacking. I believe the company thought it best not to do such a thing again. Ya,he is still alive and well as far as I know.

  7. #97
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    Oh boy, one of these.

    Okay, let me try and tackle this one succinctly, because over the years I've answered it so many times... it has a tendency to run on.

    These forums are owned by us and are therefore our responsibility. In most countries, libel and defamation laws exist. While it may seem like a stretch for a gaming forum N&S to turn into real-world, actionable libel/defamation case, Zac and I have seen this happen in a previous placed we worked. By the time thee claims had been verified it was already too late and the victim of this case had already been seriously affected in their daily life. The rule has become standard across most communications platforms (public ones, at least) owned by companies and communities. There are enough examples of these things going South that it's just a good idea to have in place from the beginning.

    It's a form of harassment. As with all forms of harassment, they should be reported directly to Frontier so that we can take action where necessary.

    There are a few other reasons, but the above are the ones that really matter. The rest are subjective and have probably been discussed a number of times already throughout the years of these forums' existence.

    As far as in-game means to 'exact revenge' or to punish griefers and whatnot: that's a whole different subject from the OP and something that's actively being worked on with the Crime & Punishment systems that the dev team are working on currently. This might not resolve the issue all at once, but the idea is to create a fair way to make sure aggressors are appropriately punished.

    Tl;dr... the forums are owned by Frontier and it's our responsibility to make sure harassment, libel, illegal activities, etc. etc. don't occur here.

    Also... because we said so...? ;p
    It's unfortunate that it ends up seeming like the company is protecting, and even siding with griefers. If and when the in-game consequences and deterrents start working properly, this will become less of a problem.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33305725/Elite/adeptdrstrange.png

  8. #98
    Originally Posted by Kevin Kyle View Post (Source)
    Well, I dont know all of the inside story and I doubt but a very small handful do. Still to this day this person bares the burden of what he done. Even though it was a bad thing, it doesnt deserve a lifelong shaming. It might even have had implications for future jobs as well. Im pretty sure there is more to the inside story I dont know about. It completely ruined his reputation in simulation racing by all that were there. Nor did it stop hacking. I believe the company thought it best not to do such a thing again. Ya,he is still alive and well as far as I know.
    Without details, this just sounds like an overhyped urban myth, imo.
    Duchess Commander Crank Larson

    Twitch | YouTube

  9. #99
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    You're right, there are times when said things do not technically count as N&S, but that's an extenuating circumstance that fell under a blanket rule rather than targeting you specifically on it. In those cases, said evidence can be submitted to us directly through our support channels so that the information and autopsy of what was being done - as you say - can still be passed to the team without action being taken against you for N&S.

    In most cases - which applies to everyone - when you want to target a single player or group with a report of some kind, it's best practice to do so directly with us. Especially in the case that you're reporting something that this player did wrong.

    As for videos attacking other people, this is one of the grey areas that I mentioned... and something perhaps that we'll need to review internally should it be as rampant as is being suggested; however, keep in mind that attacking other players in the game is not in itself harassment. Repeatedly targeting and singling out someone with the intention to harass them, on the other hand, should be reported.
    Thank you for the reply.

    The trouble with only sending video evidence to your support channels, is that you are now limiting the dissemination of a method of attack to your support staff. In terms of the station attacks, the methods used are interesting, informative, and important for everyone playing your game, to know about. This is not just some technical hitch your support staff need to know about so you can close the 'meta'. Also, it might take Frontier a long time to close that particular "loophole". You might say "well just describe the method of attack in words" - but in the case of the video I made, a picture (or a video), spoke a thousand words.

    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    however, keep in mind that attacking other players in the game is not in itself harassment. Repeatedly targeting and singling out someone with the intention to harass them, on the other hand, should be reported.
    And this is another sticking point many players have. The second part is perfectly understandable - if a player is repeatedly being targetted & attacked in-game then this could be counted as harassment. That's fine.

    The problem with the first part, is where do you draw the line between what you consider non-harassment, and where 1-4 players can basically disrupt game content such as the aforementioned Thargoid wreck site, where these players hang around such new content - which was specifically designed to be explored and researched - and disrupt that intended gameplay by repeatedly blowing up parked ships there?

    I'm presuming you're going to come back with a 'in that case it's not harassment because it's not repeatedly going after the same CMDR' - however, in that case it is repeatedly affecting multiple CMDR's all congregating at a specific location on a planet surface - and due to the nature of the wreck site, ships needed to be parked in front of the entrances (artefact corrosive effects and other damage done to SRV's - if you dismissed your ship, when recalled they land outside of the wreck area and you might not reach your ship in time in a heavily damaged SRV, for example).

    What I'm saying is - Frontier put the content in to be played. Rather than playing the content, some player or players decide to use other CMDR's as their content rather than the content itself. Depending on the context of the attacks - and your outlook - this could be considered legitimate gameplay or a form of harassment.

    I hope you understand what I'm saying here

  10. #100
    I'll give an example. Once there was a cmdr named after a book and movie character that blindly murdered me in my keelback. He had a highly modded cutter/clipper, cant remember. I wouldn't want a witch hunt, just their location, because now i have a highly mod cutter. That would be good C&P too me.

  11. #101
    Naming and shaming is not allowed in most modern MMO style games. For one, this game is also played by children. The second is because the groups that allow naming and shaming usually degrade and die over time.

    As for the ones throughout the thread stating that its the world that has become soft and that is the reason why its not allowed. Its a very safe assumption to make those people have trouble dealing with the fact that they were bullied when younger and now they have the power to do so without the risk. AKA hiding behind the anonymity that the Internet provides. The other safe assumption is that they are those bully's from childhood and this allows them live in their glory days. Either way, their biased and obviously uninformed/educated view of the world just means that they have no grasp of reality. So you can pretty much discount anything they say as biased drivel.

    A good way to think of it is this. Its easy. FDEV are trying to run a business. In this business many uncontrolled variables interact with each other on a daily basis inside ED. That makes it very hard to control the image and perception of the game you are trying to sell. Depending on the intent of those variables, it can hurt the games overall vision and goal. So to control those variables, rules have been put in place. So no naming and shaming.

  12. #102
    Originally Posted by Dale Emasiri View Post (Source)
    Also... because we said so...? ;p
    is this also the reason why the word filter is set for teletubbie land with the baby faced sun?
    ⚔ JOIN THE EMPIRE ⚔
    ☣ RETRIBUTION IS AT HAND
    LET FURY GUIDE YOUR WEAPONS LET VENGEANCE BE YOUR SONG ☣

  13. #103
    Originally Posted by ChampN252 View Post (Source)
    I'll give an example. Once there was a cmdr named after a book and movie character that blindly murdered me in my keelback. He had a highly modded cutter/clipper, cant remember. I wouldn't want a witch hunt, just their location, because now i have a highly mod cutter. That would be good C&P too me.
    Just send Harry a friend request

  14. #104
    Originally Posted by ChampN252 View Post (Source)
    I'll give an example. Once there was a cmdr named after a book and movie character that blindly murdered me in my keelback. He had a highly modded cutter/clipper, cant remember. I wouldn't want a witch hunt, just their location, because now i have a highly mod cutter. That would be good C&P too me.
    You want player bounties.
    Peteris Krisjanis
    Call sign: Eagleboy | Will play: All Online | Federation | Trader and Explorer, with a little of everything else
    Please support call for ED Linux port https://www.change.org/p/frontier-de...-linux-desktop

  15. #105
    Originally Posted by GreyAreaUK View Post (Source)
    Because the last thing this game needs is organised witch-hunts, especially against players who have been targetted for a laugh or some pettiness.
    cant say it better than that!
    CMDR Kingston s nelson
    ignorance is no form of defence, stupidity is no excuse.
    WIN 10(x64)INTEL i5-4690k,3.5ghz@ 4.9ghz, evga oc gtx 660 liquid cooled, 32g ddr3 @2133mhz, MB -Z97-pro gamer, PSU 1000w

Page 7 of 19 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast