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Thread: PFB, Ship Rebuy Penalty and Powerplay

  1. #16
    It's funny you should post that because I was just wondering earlier today if this was getting too complicated and I nearly posted a question as to why you wouldn't do what you describe as option 3 and be done with it.

  2. #17
    Option 3 has my vote.

  3. #18
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    - the Alliance and independent factions don't have this benefit, have never had it.
    they don't really need it as they rarely play in open anyway.

  4. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #19
    Sandro Sammarco is offline
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    Hello Commander Blackneto!

    Originally Posted by Blackneto View Post (Source)
    they don't really need it as they rarely play in open anyway.
    So an issue for me would be if these kinds of rulings are why they dont.

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    * When you say that you should be able to help your Federal/Imperial buddies, remember that this makes the playing field less even - the Alliance and independent factions don't have this benefit, have never had it. "Personal’s not the same as important. People just think it is" - to quote a literary legend.
    In a universe that is full of unfair, this seems fair.
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  6. #21
    As someone with 100 weeks of PP under my belt and takes part in PP specific PvP I agree with Blackneto. If I see an enemy pledged ship anywhere, carrying merits or not, it is my duty to eliminate them. Out of common courtesy, I have the personal exemption of attacking players in engineer systems because that just feels wrong to me.

    However, out of the options you have presented, I would by far and away choose option 3.

  7. #22
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    * When you say that you should be able to help your Federal/Imperial buddies, remember that this makes the playing field less even - the Alliance and independent factions don't have this benefit, have never had it. "Personal’s not the same as important. People just think it is" - to quote a literary legend.
    That's a fair point, but same-superpower powers cannot oppose or undermine each other; our relationship is the result of mechanics and player politics, but unless those mechanics change, the politics will remain steadfast. Even if those mechanics changed, the Imperial and Federal powers would almost certainly remain allied.

    The disadvantage this would present to the Alliance is offset by the Alliance's status as one power, rather than two or four. They are able to sidestep this issue entirely simply by all being pledged to the same power. With collusion piracy out of the game, the core mechanical advantage the Federal and Imperial powers had over the Independents is gone anyway.

    This is a bigger issue for the smaller independent powers (Kumo, Sirius, Antal), but I am not sure it would be a critical issue. Perhaps a great reason to allow flexible alliances in a post 2.4 powerplay revisit, wink wink?

    How do you plead?

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    A couple of points:

    * This does not affect undermining or opposing. As an opposing Commander, you will trigger the exception by default as long as your target is pledged to the power that owns the system or is trying to expand. So any amount of Commanders can still gang up to attack. There's a part of me that like the potential for destabilising the field that this could bring: always being stronger in attack than defence. But perhaps that's just me wishful thinking.

    * When you say that you should be able to help your Federal/Imperial buddies, remember that this makes the playing field less even - the Alliance and independent factions don't have this benefit, have never had it. "Personal’s not the same as important. People just think it is" - to quote a literary legend.


    What if you then would allow for this:

    Personally I even think that when I am not pledged to any power at all and then attack an enemy power ship (f.e. Delaine ship in Aisling territory) in some power's territory it should not be considered a crime.
    I think there should be a standard bounty on the head of any enemy Power's ship X in any Power's Y territory. And this bounty should be collectible by anybody that does not belong to an enemy power. They could belong to a aligned 'friendly' Power, or be neutral.

    It might help balancing the situation.

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  9. #24
    Eliminate the federation bounties and bring back Superpower bounties. Remove powerplay effects on bounties; it should be based on the superpower that controls the system.

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    Thanks for the feedback so far.

    A couple of points:

    * This does not affect undermining or opposing. As an opposing Commander, you will trigger the exception by default as long as your target is pledged to the power that owns the system or is trying to expand. So any amount of Commanders can still gang up to attack. There's a part of me that like the potential for destabilising the field that this could bring: always being stronger in attack than defence. But perhaps that's just me wishful thinking.

    * When you say that you should be able to help your Federal/Imperial buddies, remember that this makes the playing field less even - the Alliance and independent factions don't have this benefit, have never had it. "Personal’s not the same as important. People just think it is" - to quote a literary legend.
    Why split the Empire and Federation with different PP factions in the first place? Or, why not introduce some more PP factions for the Alliance?
    edit: Forgot to say that option 3 is my preferred one.

  11. #26
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Blackneto!



    So an issue for me would be if these kinds of rulings are why they dont.

    Getting into the reasons why certain factions stay in PG or Solo is beyond this discussion.

    I'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with penalties for blowing up their ships.

  12. #27
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Blackneto!



    So an issue for me would be if these kinds of rulings are why they dont.
    This goes down the long, dark rabbit hole of "Should Powerplay be in Open only" and/or "Should Powerplay in Open have more reward for the extra risk?", which would heavily derail this thread. (I'd love to have that conversation somewhere else though.)

    Regardless, most of the Independent powers have some allies anyway - Yuri Grom buddied up closely with the Empire in an alliance they call ZYADA, Li-Yong Rui has a longstanding treaty with Edmund Mahon, and the Kumo Crew has bonded with the Federation over a shared love of shooting Imperials in the Pegasi Pirate War. I believe Antal has some relations with the Empire; their main enemy is the Kumo Crew, so there's a bit of a proxy war going on. Ever since collusion piracy got the axe, the relations between Independent powers and Superpower-affiliated Powers has become tighter as the demand for someone to undermine your lousy systems has become greater.

    In fact, the disadvantage comes from the check on what system you're in - if the exemption on Pilot's Federation Bounties simplifies to "Shooting non-allied Power = okay", the playing field levels out again.

  13. #28
    Option 3 seems the obvious choice, unless you plan more power struggle between powers of one superpower. Then it'll be two for me. Commanders didn't keep the faith anyway.




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  14. #29
    Originally Posted by Blackneto View Post (Source)
    All the options are bad. As an active power player if I come across a enemy pledged player anywhere, i'm going to try and blow their ship up, they might be carrying merits. option 3 would be the best if we had to choose.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly.
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  15. #30
    ALRIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHT!

    Short introduction (I promise the information is pertinent):

    I normally don't post on the forums, as is evidenced by my "rank" here, however I like to think I am a pretty active member in the E community, especially the Imperial and PvP communities. I am a Legate (combat leader/teacher) in Lavigny's Legion (the largest ALD player faction in the game), and I also operate a new Imperial PvP initiative called the "Shields of Justice" (SoJ henceforth). This thread is of particular importance to me, because it is the SoJ's self-given duty to protect Imperial space (mainly ALD space, for now, as it is from ALD that a.) the name came from, and b.) where most of our pilots are currently from. However, we respond to hostile action reports from any Imperial power). During our operations, we often kill Federal pilots both within the Empire's jurisdiction (in defense of our fellow Imperial pilots), and during sting operations into Federal space. We hunt Federal merit farmers in systems that aren't even part of any bubble yet at all, and defend our own pilots from Federal hunters who are doing the same to our own merit farmers. The Pilot's Federation Bounties stand to seriously screw us, if implemented incorrectly.

    Before people start throwing accusations of "griefing with a fancy name" at me, the Shields adhere to strict firing restrictions, which can be found here. Those are also a simplified version of a four page set of rules that we decided was too restrictive, but you should be able to see that the goal of the Shields is to RP and PvP within confines that should not be considered griefing, but Power Play.

    OPTION THE THIRD - FRIENDSHIP DRIVE CHARGING

    * Remove crimes for attacking a pledged vessel pledged to a power from a different superpower to the power I am pledged to, in a system owned by a power aligned to my superpower.

    * This means no bounties, PFB or ship rebuy penalties will be triggered unless I am attacking a ship from my power, or a ship pledged to a power aligned with my superpower that is not carrying your power's cargo or vouchers.
    I particularly like that, for the most part (a comrade of mine, CMDR PlzDontShoot will be giving his own input on part of that here shortly). Being a pan-Imperial defense force, the SoJ would be subjected to PFBs simply for attempting to defend their allies (if a certain version of the proposed changes gets implemented). Believe it or not, the PP community is alive and well, and the 4 Imperial powers coordinate quite often.

    I understand the desire for the PFBs, but we really need to be careful and not throw something together in a rush just to sate the weeping masses. Penalizing CMDRs for defending their own territory, or that of their allies, is stupid. Penalizing CMDRs for attacking enemies in their own space is understandable, but will suck.

    Also, is this PvP only, or do these bounty inclusions/omissions that are being suggested include PP PvE ships? If CMDRs no longer earn system bounties undermining, then it will make it impossible to scout systems using the bounty board.

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