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Thread: The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

  1. #16
    I play in Open every single time I log into the game. I've never felt a need to engage in the Engineering "arms race" and get along just fine. It been a good year since another player has even tried to kill me. I don't think that most players in Open are actually looking for PvP and as such Open isn't what a lot of people think it is.

  2. #17
    Open's problem

    1. Outside of CG and story events, people are too spread out
    2. Online activities like multicrew, wings, and power play are buggy, broken or not worth the hassle
    3. When people get to together, griefers show up.

    Everything I need to, I can do in Solo. If I want "community" I login to Mobius (which actually is a community and not a cesspool of violence)

  3. #18
    Originally Posted by Crimson Kaim View Post (Source)
    Well for PvE itself you most likely don't even need engineers as NPCs don't have access to them (even though they land on their bases) but when you are ganked you don't stand a chance. A fully modded Hauler has more combat potential than a fully PvE fitted Anaconda or whatnot. The imbalance the engineers create between vanilla and engineered ships is so huge that no amount of credits, skill or other resources can overcome the dominance of the engineers. Hence every slightest percent of a roll can decide so many outcomes in a PvP and PvE scenario as any mod scales with other mods, resulting in potential oneshottings (PvE and PvP alike) vs vanilla ships, overflow of resources that no resource management is needed, thus decreeasing skill and the general feling of being behind because one doesn't want to grind all the engineers, let alone materials.
    Engineers are often locked behind a system permit, other useless engineers (Mister Qunt) and generally demand annoying task to unlock them for example mining or reaching 5k LY to proof 'they are a true explorer'.
    It is totally possible to not pursue Engineers in PvE play. I have only opened access to 3 engineers to date, and only partially made use of what they offer.

    I have wondered whether a carrot to draw more PvE players into the engineering path (and consequently into a stronger Open/PvP position), is the Thargoids. Designing them around engineered weapons and defenses could do this. And since the Thargoids are a PvE/NPC element, they could serve to encourage CMDRs who are more comfortable in the PvE environment, and perhaps those CMDRs who have had little reason to engage much with engineers.

  4. #19
    The reason Open sucks for everybody.
    Can't speak for everybody, but for me the reason open sucks is the fact it has other people in it.

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    If it didnt suck 2 full mobius groups wouldnt overpower open in numbers now would it?
    I'm sure you have a source for that claim? (that's a rhetorical question, I know you made this up since you don't have the number of active Mobius players nor the number of active - or even total - open players and can't quantify how many switch between the two either).

  6. #21
    I agree with OP about the engineering part. I want to participate in pvp in this game, but having to invest time in engeering rolls is a big deterrent for me. Therefore I play CQC instead.

  7. #22
    Thing is... it is not even about RNG, luck or engineer mechanics. It is introduction of "epic plasma accelerators", "rare plasma accelerators" etc...
    Like pre-engineer ED was more like advanced FPS in terms of PVP. Standard set of modules, ships etc accessible to everyone. You configure your ship and fight with it. If you loose the only thing to blame is your skill, either in fighting or in ship configuration. Post-engineers it is classical MMO PVP. Highly gear (=time) dependent, competitive between those who are willing to spend time required, pointless for everyone else.
    The problem IMO is that the game attracted certain type of players and then changed radically. It is the case for me anyway. I do not, and not going to play MMO-type PVP. And i think that this is not going to change, changing it is simply impossible at this point so... glad there are still solo/pg modes...

  8. #23
    All the i dont have time to engineer is really just a lot of horse hankey , i work nights through the week, sleep through the day and get maybe if im lucky 6 hours of play in a week spread over a couple of sessions. I have engineered the beejeezuz out of many ships. How? By prioritising and having a set goal on each play session, sometimes the plans change and a detour here and there but ultimately going back to the task at hand i set myself. Even 30 minutes play per week would have you getting somewhere but think most just lack that focus.

  9. #24

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    Before Engineers, gaps were skill and credits earned.

    Now, its not just skill. But RNG LUCK on your modules wins fights more than skill. However, im not talking about countered matchups.

    The time to get there is a huge issue and a major turn off for people in OPEN play. We all play the same game. But we all dont have the same time.
    I dont mind them making stuff grindy to keep a player base, but as of late. Lots of people wont play in open because of it. Or people just left the game all together due to balancing issues.

    The community, PVPERS and PVERS have been begging for changes. PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY IN OPEN. But there is no reason to with how bad everything is balanced here.
    This game rewards time spent in every factor. Not what you do with the time because of RNG and luck.
    You should be able to calculate the dmg of each ship and build. And use your skills as a wing or solo to defeat them. RNG rolls should have been static.

    Honestly its not the people in open killing each other pushing people out of open.

    Its the Balancing and time needed to learn open is whats pushing people out of open. No one gets a fair shot to learn, its too costly to keep up. Especially for someone with a job or school.

    They want to keep people playing their game. But the rewards they get for their time in game is really bad. So everyone just plays in solo or private.

    Lets be honest everyone knows what can happen to them in open play. But its too detrimental to their game play to take part in it.

    Balance all this. Make our time worth while. We nerf missions rewards like crazy. Especially credits. The next money meta will pop up. When people can be making their credits across the galaxy based of their progression in game.

    Make open less threatening and scary. Reward traders and pvpers for their time. F-IT this goes for private and solo too.

    The only reason ive got this far into this game is because I can sit down and stream it for 6-8 hours a day. Ive turned streaming into my "JOB". I've lived in a spaceship for the past 9 months. Normal people dont get to do what I do. But you have to do what I do, or have that same amount of time over the course of your gameplay to get close.

    I played World of Warcraft. Rohan and some other Korean Grindy MMO's. But at least you were rewarded for your time in those game. And it wasnt based off RNG. Sometimes I've accomplished nothing in an 8 hour day grinding materials.

    Look at this video Peleluech put up.

    He shouldn't be doing this to be competitive. And how long did it take to get that one set of rolls?

    Now, lets talk about something here. People are right, he doesnt "HAVE" to do this. But the way PVPers play the game, our goal is to min max so we have an advantage. But everyone should be able to get the same outcome. And people simply dont have the time for this.

    Take a piece of gear in WoW. Everyone can customize it as they see fit. But its the SAME piece of gear and every Gem and Enchant is obtainable.

    Here in elite dangerous. You have to roll the dice or play slot machine.

    We love this game. But please balance it for everyone. This not only makes it bad for people NOT PVPing because they cant put in the same time we do. But it makes it bad in the PVP world too. Trust me lots of people want to fight. But its not worth their time. And then what? Right now PVP is the biggest time sink and the biggest credit sink out there with no reward behind it to boot.

    Crime and Punishment wont mean anything if there is no one there to take part in it anyways. People are still going to die. And Top end PVPERS are still going to highwake.

    Please fix this stuff. And EVERYONE will be happy. Including the people that HATE pvpers right now. Because they would at least have a chance to learn and defend theirself.

    This is the only working game of its kind. And there are TONS of us that want to continue playing it. But its really hard to justify it sometimes. I have a really hard time recommending this game to people. I always say ITS A REALLY AWESOME GAME But.......
    You were almost there, but you seem to think we should all be in stock cars, that's the problem. Nobody wants that, neither do you. I want to be rewarded with equipment equivalent to the amount of dedication I put in, and Engineers gave me that. Now, if I have more time to invest, I might have a chance against you in combat, who are a slightly better pilot than me. Engineers has brought a way to spread the skill gap a little, which is a good thing, Elite's skill cap is crazy high compared to other games. Engineers has issues, mainly around mats gathering, which should be less of a lottery. The rest of it is sound.

  11. #26
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)

    Make open less threatening and scary.

    Ok let's remind every one again.

    CEO of Frontier Developments David Braben, OBE, Stated to everyone on video (years ago), and it says it when you buy the game, that Elite Dangerous (likely to cause problems or to have adverse consequences) is a Cutthroat (fierce and intense measures used) Galaxy.

    Since Beta in 2014 it has been Dumbed down over 50% to accommodate every age and skill level that leaves the womb, if we dumb it down any further in Open the game would become similar to Tiddlywinks.

    Why not go into SOLO where it is less scary and threatening, that is why it is there for commanders like you ?

  12. #27
    Originally Posted by Fyrd Judge View Post (Source)
    Ok let's remind every one again.

    CEO of Frontier Developments David Braben, OBE, Stated to everyone on video, and it says it when you buy the game, that Elite Dangerous (likely to cause problems or to have adverse consequences) is a Cutthroat (fierce and intense measures used) Galaxy.

    Since Beta in 2014 it has been Dumbed down over 50% to accommodate every age and skill level that leaves the womb, if we dumb it down any further in Open the game would become similar to Tiddlywinks.
    He also said PvP would be rare and meaningful, though.

  13. #28
    Wall of text... ugh...

  14. #29
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    He also said PvP would be rare and meaningful, though.
    I was not interested in the other information, the bit that stuck out and has been said a few times by other commanders over the month was, "Make open less threatening". I oppose this single issue, it should be going the other way, Harder.

  15. #30
    As a noob to elite I can see why there are people averse to open. I just tried to participate in the CG (my second one ever) and thought i could make some cash in a resource site.

    As soon as I landed i got rammed multiple times by two clippers, at first i thought it was accidental, i wasn't ninjaing kills or anything. I evaded and moved to a different part of the belt. They followed me and then they proceeded to open fire - so i popped my SCBs and shot back. Then they left after i stripped one of them of 50% of the shields in a short window. Next it was a pair of vultures, did the same - but then I had to leave because the police showed up.

    Came back and met a friendly chap in a federal corvette who I winged up with - that was fun. Then my connection went down, or my connection to open and lost that.

    Then I went to head back out on my own - got interdicted 3 times for no reason other than try to gank my ship - one guy interdicted me 3 times but when i decided to fight him after assessing his damage and realised I had the better agility and could stay on the back of his ship - the police then showed up and I booked it. I got fired upon leaving the station. So I retreated back to my dark corner of space to do some piracy of NPC's to earn money (slowly unfortunately).

    From that experience on open, I am now reluctant to participate in other CG's. So I completely understand why people avoid it. I have planned ahead and made my ship as light and resistant as I could knowing there would probably be people trying to do this - and its probably what saved me from losing my ship many times today.

    People have the right to do it, but considering I wasn't even trading or hauling and they just wanted an 'easy' kill is what sortof bothers me more. If I am going to blow someone up - it will be for a reason. They have the right to do as they please of course, but I could have just popped that clipper if i wanted to but I had the moral victory and that was enough for me.

    I don't understand the security system fully. What is it with everyone using plasma accelerators anyway? are these the FOTM weapons i should be using?

    Mixed experience of open for me so far - not avoiding it though as it makes it interesting in this game. Money is hard to come by I've found in order to progress, straight ganking makes this an even steeper slope.

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