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Thread: The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

  1. #31
    PvP for combat ship vs combat ship is cool. But the real reason open sucks is because the pvp pirate vs trader dynamic is poorly designed.

    PvPers like to say stuff like, 'Dont play in open if you dont want to get attacked' or 'just submit and drop your cargo' but its a one-sided proposition thats has almost no repercussions for the person doing the attacking in a combat ship vs trader ship engagement. Its mostly just annoying for people trying to just run trade routes that know how to escape. The worst part is pirate players act like they are doing you a favor and act bewildered when you dont want to give them your cargo after being pulled from SC and be 'peacefully' robbed. The logic being you should be happy since they could have given you a rebuy. Which is true but wheres the actual risk for the pirate thats committing a major felony by robbing me?

    Not to mention theres mechanics in the game (wake scanner, subsystem targeting, weapon effects, hatch breaker limpets) that allow the pirate players to keep following you and keep harassing you indefinitely if they wanted to. Wheres the trader wake scanner cloak? Wheres the distress beacon limpet? Just like theres manifest scanners, I should get an 911 distress scanner that reports a robbery in progress with a faster emergency police response if the scan completes.

    As a pure trader my options are evade interdiction, submit and give cargo or submit and high wake away. The possible outcomes are I get away, I give the cargo and the pirate lets me go or the combat ship destroys my ship if I give them cargo or not. Wheres the downside/risk to this equation for the person doing the attacking? All the risk/loss is on the person being pirated.

    The dynamic isnt fun or rewarding for either party really. The only people that get jollies out of it are or traders that are masochists who enjoy being chased or pvpers that basically like to grief. I meet plenty of them doing the CGs. Players that interdict and just start shooting. A fully combat kitted G5 engineered ship attacking a weaponless trade ship isnt really a fight its just people getting target practice for their uber weapons until I run away.

    There are ways to fix it too that wouldnt be that difficult. For example, the latest CG has a trade CG and a protect the traders CG. But the dynamic of the protection part doesnt exist in game without creating it. Maybe make the protection CG have a system where pvp players get a reward for actually escorting trade ships?

    They could even do something like implement npc convoys like the random ones that pop in supercruise running to and from the station CG. These generally have 2-3 trade ships and 2-3 combat ships. When you join as a trader you take the place of one of the npc traders. You join as an escort you take the place of one of the escorts. Escorts get credit for the amount of cargo they escort that reaches the station. Pirates get rewards for the amount they stop and engineering mats/cargo from convoy ships they destroy/hatchbreak.
    Coordinates for dummies like me:

    LAT UP 0 LAT DOWN 180


    LONG UP 90 LONG DOWN 270

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    If it didnt suck 2 full mobius groups wouldnt overpower open in numbers now would it?

    And youre right. It is hugely exaggerated. Its not always a constant bloodbath.

    But the forum posts scare enough people where they wont take part or risk their ship.

    IE. .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

    Furthermore, go visit the hotel california thread. That thread alone will back up my "case".

    o7
    They don't, the biggest survey conducted (over 12k respondents) showed that open is, by far, the most popular game mode.

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by Threeofseven View Post (Source)
    They don't, the biggest survey conducted (over 12k respondents) showed that open is, by far, the most popular game mode.
    ... Among redditors, aka PvP players.
    Cmdr Shivvy
    Pilots' Federation Academy, Class of '84
    More of my posts can be found at Facebook, Google+,Mastodon, Tumblr, Twitter, and Wordpress

  4. #34
    Engineers were the biggest mistake Fdev made IMO. 95% of PvPers hate them. Iv been told that nearly half of all pvp player groups disappeared shortly after they dropped (note: I was told. Cannot confirm).
    It would be hard for fdev to walk back on them now, but what they could do is create another open mode where engineers don't exist and all mods are disabled. I would bet my Cutter that most players would migrate there.

  5. #35
    Oh good, another thread in which several individuals post to tell me what 'everybody' wants and what 'nobody' wants.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Siobhan View Post (Source)
    ... Among redditors, aka PvP players.
    Redditors are as diverse a community as here.

  7. #37

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    Oh good, another thread in which several individuals post to tell me what 'everybody' wants and what 'nobody' wants.
    If you are playing forum bingo we won a long time ago.

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Threeofseven View Post (Source)
    Engineers were the biggest mistake Fdev made IMO. 95% of PvPers hate them. Iv been told that nearly half of all pvp player groups disappeared shortly after they dropped (note: I was told. Cannot confirm).
    It would be hard for fdev to walk back on them now, but what they could do is create another open mode where engineers don't exist and all mods are disabled. I would bet my Cutter that most players would migrate there.
    From what I can see of engineering so far its good. However, it seems it is more likely a case of big fish vs little fish. Engineering is great, its made my python pretty agile - however it took me forever to buy and i'm not rich and have far from perfect grade 5 rolls (I think I only have two g5 rolls in total).

    The people who I believe would be more likely to grief are the rich ones using these get rich quick schemes in the game from aeons ago and since they have been removed has now created quite the imbalance as they have the resources to burn and have had the time put in to get these special modules.

    So they spend their time shooting fish in a barrel, whereas all the newbies - myself included have a much more difficult grind, compounded by the fact there are these great white sharks swimming around with more money than they know what to do with. It's something that requires a culture change, or some form of in game system to try to effect such behaviours. I wouldn't particularly advocate for hand holding policies, but there needs to be something alternative to level the playing field from what I've seen so far, i think removing engineering would be a mistake.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Fyrd Judge View Post (Source)
    Ok let's remind every one again.

    CEO of Frontier Developments David Braben, OBE, Stated to everyone on video (years ago), and it says it when you buy the game, that Elite Dangerous (likely to cause problems or to have adverse consequences) is a Cutthroat (fierce and intense measures used) Galaxy.

    Since Beta in 2014 it has been Dumbed down over 50% to accommodate every age and skill level that leaves the womb, if we dumb it down any further in Open the game would become similar to Tiddlywinks.

    Why not go into SOLO where it is less scary and threatening, that is why it is there for commanders like you ?
    Well I tried using that argument. And boy I agree with you 100%.

    But then you always have that one guy that argues. "BUT MAH BRABEN SAID IT MEANS RANK". Sigh.

  11. #41

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    Well I tried using that argument. And boy I agree with you 100%.

    But then you always have that one guy that argues. "BUT MAH BRABEN SAID IT MEANS RANK". Sigh.
    Yep. But the "Cutthroat" thing came later. Someone at FD must have realized how players jumped the (completely misguided at first) "dangerous" bandwagon and what a phantastic marketing argument this would be! And so we got what we have now. Blame the players, not the company.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Threeofseven View Post (Source)
    They don't, the biggest survey conducted (over 12k respondents) showed that open is, by far, the most popular game mode.
    What were those stats again? (actual numbers please)

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by oflow View Post (Source)
    PvPers like to say stuff like, 'Dont play in open if you dont want to get attacked' or 'just submit and drop your cargo' but its a one-sided proposition thats has almost no repercussions for the person doing the attacking in a combat ship vs trader ship engagement. Its mostly just annoying for people trying to just run trade routes that know how to escape. The worst part is pirate players act like they are doing you a favor and act bewildered when you dont want to give them your cargo after being pulled from SC and be 'peacefully' robbed. The logic being you should be happy since they could have given you a rebuy. Which is true but wheres the actual risk for the pirate thats committing a major felony by robbing me?

    Not to mention theres mechanics in the game (wake scanner, subsystem targeting, weapon effects, hatch breaker limpets) that allow the pirate players to keep following you and keep harassing you indefinitely if they wanted to. Wheres the trader wake scanner cloak? Wheres the distress beacon limpet? Just like theres manifest scanners, I should get an 911 distress scanner that reports a robbery in progress with a faster emergency police response if the scan completes.

    As a pure trader my options are evade interdiction, submit and give cargo or submit and high wake away. The possible outcomes are I get away, I give the cargo and the pirate lets me go or the combat ship destroys my ship if I give them cargo or not. Wheres the downside/risk to this equation for the person doing the attacking? All the risk/loss is on the person being pirated.

    The dynamic isnt fun or rewarding for either party really. The only people that get jollies out of it are or traders that are masochists who enjoy being chased or pvpers that basically like to grief. I meet plenty of them doing the CGs. Players that interdict and just start shooting. A fully combat kitted G5 engineered ship attacking a weaponless trade ship isnt really a fight its just people getting target practice for their uber weapons until I run away.

    There are ways to fix it too that wouldnt be that difficult. For example, the latest CG has a trade CG and a protect the traders CG. But the dynamic of the protection part doesnt exist in game without creating it. Maybe make the protection CG have a system where pvp players get a reward for actually escorting trade ships?

    They could even do something like implement npc convoys like the random ones that pop in supercruise running to and from the station CG. These generally have 2-3 trade ships and 2-3 combat ships. When you join as a trader you take the place of one of the npc traders. You join as an escort you take the place of one of the escorts. Escorts get credit for the amount of cargo they escort that reaches the station. Pirates get rewards for the amount they stop and engineering mats/cargo from convoy ships they destroy/hatchbreak.
    You could always engineer your trade ship so you can ourun the pirate , learn evasion tactics and minimise the risk of getting interdicted in the first place by not taking the direct route and fly out of the galactic plane. It is easy to escape an attack.

  15. #45
    Coming from someone who usually plays in open, has unlocked nearly every engineer, and has a fleet of engineered ships, yes engineering broke the game and needs a rebalance. It was an attempt to substitute ship upgrading and grind for content.

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