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Thread: The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

  1. #46

    Post

    Originally Posted by Crimson Kaim View Post (Source)
    By implementing content that is as deep or complex as a pond....
    Ahh, so you're saying it's very complex then? As I'm sure you are aware there is a complete ecosystem at work in a pond ie the cohabitation of interdependent, interacting variables such as environmental factors, communities of organisms, multiple habitats & a self-sustaining food chain - basically creating & maintaining a mini life cycle.

    Oh, it's you! Never mind! Let's bring it back to your level...

    Faster! Faster! Blow up da spaceship nowwwwww! Boooom - hahahahahaha


    'Mister Qunt'?...no, I'll leave it!

  2. #47
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    Coming from someone who usually plays in open, has unlocked nearly every engineer, and has a fleet of engineered ships, yes engineering broke the game and needs a rebalance. It was an attempt to substitute ship upgrading and grind for content.
    Engineering didn't break the game it added some much needed spice. Combat had pretty much come down to a game of rock papper scissors before engineering.

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by Pyrobee View Post (Source)
    Engineering didn't break the game it added some much needed spice. Combat had pretty much come down to a game of rock papper scissors before engineering.
    Please, it's all SCB's and thermal shock cannons. "Spice" only happens Fdev belatedly fix an exploit.

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    Coming from someone who usually plays in open, has unlocked nearly every engineer, and has a fleet of engineered ships, yes engineering broke the game and needs a rebalance. It was an attempt to substitute ship upgrading and grind for content.
    It didn't broke the game but broke PvP and that was predictable. While the Engineers are a nice addition of 'content' for PvE I always saw it as a lazy way to obfuscate any proper balancing for PvP behind a jungle of possibilities that no one will ever be able to unravel again. If that sounds a bit cynical it's because I don't care about PvP and so they can't spoil the game for me (quite the opposite). But I respect players who love PvP and feel sorry for them.. (even if that sounds a bit contradictory)

  5. #50
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    Coming from someone who usually plays in open, has unlocked nearly every engineer, and has a fleet of engineered ships, yes engineering broke the game and needs a rebalance. It was an attempt to substitute ship upgrading and grind for content.
    Agreed, they unbalanced PvP and made PvE ships totally invisible to NPCs therefore removing all challenge. Horrible design decision.

  6. #51
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    If it didnt suck 2 full mobius groups wouldnt overpower open in numbers now would it?
    Is that really true, are both Mobius groups combined more than the number of open players?

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by Soon(TM) View Post (Source)
    Is that really true, are both Mobius groups combined more than the number of open players?
    Thats not really the point I was trying to make here dudes.

    The point I am trying to make is not every one went to mobius explicitly because of PVE content. People want to be able to group up with others. And some of them may even want to PVP at some point. But a lot of people dont want to play in SOLO either.

    So they joined a massive group because of the dynamics of OPEN play. OPEN play is supposed to be hard. But at the same time. OPEN play is really unbalanced.

    Look at Diablo 3 ok. You can have massive amounts of DPS Blasting all edges of the map from one place farming everything you see in sight. You DONT have to balance PVE content. IE, NPC Ships in Elite Dangerous. Once you understand the game, you could widdle down an Elite A Rated Conda in an A rated Viper. NPCS dont do anything.

    But because of the Dynamics of around you and the Balancing Issues I listed above. Makes it unfavorable.

    Im not fighting for PVP or Griefers. We dont need the help, we already grinded our asses off. And it took a crap ton of game time to get there. Also like most PVEERS and im pointing this out because damn near everyone did it. They hit the Money Fountain for rebuys too. The flood gates are already open. And not balancing credits basically punishes the new guys OR the people that didnt take advantage of it them. So earning that same money later on as you progress in the game would be beneficial. As taking someone out with 14 billion in the bank means nothing. And taking someone out with 80 mil in the bank means a lot more.

    Anyways, You'll see with the heat sinks, and the heat meta, SCBs, ect. Are all getting balance changes because of the way players are effected.

    We are fighting for you traders. And the people that dont get the chance to learn or experience that part of the game. Because of its unbalanced features and how harsh it can be while learning against other players.

  8. #53
    There are just as many heavily engineered ships flying around in Mobius as there are in open. As much as you might like the idea that most players secretly prefer your playstyle, it's simply not true.

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Gunnet View Post (Source)
    There are just as many heavily engineered ships flying around in Mobius as there are in open. As much as you might like the idea that most players secretly prefer your playstyle, it's simply not true.
    And how many of those guys you think will fly in a straight line when interdicted by a player in open?

    Some of my fellow streamers are Elite in every field. But they dont have the experience vs open players. And a lot of people never get that chance to learn because of the problems I listed above.

    Hell, i've come across some guys that wont watch the Git Gud Guide because SDC made it. Wheres mobius' tips and tricks for survival? Where are the good guys in the game? Because a lot of you cant tell the difference between Adles Armada and SDC members.

    I am aware there are engineered ships in mobius.

    They clicked open. People click open in a game with multicannons and lasers. Get shot. Go to the forums asking for help. And the first reply is. "Here is a link to mobius" With the typical name calling,psychopath, sociopath, griefer...You get the point.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by FrogsFriend View Post (Source)
    A couple of points that spring to mind.
    Firstly, I always play in open as a basically PVE player and never have any problems. The stories about it being some sort of permanent blood-bath are hugely exaggerated.
    Secondly, " The reason Open sucks for everybody"? If you have an opinion it's ok to just state it without needing to claim that you're a spokesman for everybody. It really doesn't help your case.
    As per your beration of the OP, you might want to state "only in my experience" , as you don't speak for the rest of us.

    In my experience it can be as you say FrogsFriend(not get interdicted for a long time), and also as the person posting the opposite(after your post saying it is a bloodbath). Never the less, this "once in a while" griefing(yes , we all know it is allowed) is enough to put many people off.

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    And how many of those guys you think will fly in a straight line when interdicted by a player in open?

    Some of my fellow streamers are Elite in every field. But they dont have the experience vs open players. And a lot of people never get that chance to learn because of the problems I listed above.

    Hell, i've come across some guys that wont watch the Git Gud Guide because SDC made it. Wheres mobius' tips and tricks for survival? Where are the good guys in the game? Because a lot of you cant tell the difference between Adles Armada and SDC members.

    I am aware there are engineered ships in mobius.
    Wouldn't want to guess at a fraction. I think you might be surprised at how many of us break the stereotype of not even knowing how to react though.

    Mobius doesn't really have guides, but the Discord has channels for ship build and combat advice. Sometimes Rinzler even gives people tips there.

    Honestly, I don't think not recognising names is much of a disadvantage, especially if you just want to survive. In open I would approach AA and SDC members with the same degree of caution when outside of the starter systems; or anybody else with modules which say "combat build" for that matter.

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    Before Engineers, gaps were skill and credits earned.

    Now, its not just skill. But RNG LUCK on your modules wins fights more than skill. However, im not talking about countered matchups.

    The time to get there is a huge issue and a major turn off for people in OPEN play. We all play the same game. But we all dont have the same time.
    I dont mind them making stuff grindy to keep a player base, but as of late. Lots of people wont play in open because of it. Or people just left the game all together due to balancing issues.

    The community, PVPERS and PVERS have been begging for changes. PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY IN OPEN. But there is no reason to with how bad everything is balanced here.
    This game rewards time spent in every factor. Not what you do with the time because of RNG and luck.
    You should be able to calculate the dmg of each ship and build. And use your skills as a wing or solo to defeat them. RNG rolls should have been static.

    Honestly its not the people in open killing each other pushing people out of open.

    Its the Balancing and time needed to learn open is whats pushing people out of open. No one gets a fair shot to learn, its too costly to keep up. Especially for someone with a job or school.

    They want to keep people playing their game. But the rewards they get for their time in game is really bad. So everyone just plays in solo or private.

    Lets be honest everyone knows what can happen to them in open play. But its too detrimental to their game play to take part in it.

    Balance all this. Make our time worth while. We nerf missions rewards like crazy. Especially credits. The next money meta will pop up. When people can be making their credits across the galaxy based of their progression in game.

    Make open less threatening and scary. Reward traders and pvpers for their time. F-IT this goes for private and solo too.

    The only reason ive got this far into this game is because I can sit down and stream it for 6-8 hours a day. Ive turned streaming into my "JOB". I've lived in a spaceship for the past 9 months. Normal people dont get to do what I do. But you have to do what I do, or have that same amount of time over the course of your gameplay to get close.

    I played World of Warcraft. Rohan and some other Korean Grindy MMO's. But at least you were rewarded for your time in those game. And it wasnt based off RNG. Sometimes I've accomplished nothing in an 8 hour day grinding materials.

    Look at this video Peleluech put up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEGFkbfBe8

    He shouldn't be doing this to be competitive. And how long did it take to get that one set of rolls?

    Now, lets talk about something here. People are right, he doesnt "HAVE" to do this. But the way PVPers play the game, our goal is to min max so we have an advantage. But everyone should be able to get the same outcome. And people simply dont have the time for this.

    Take a piece of gear in WoW. Everyone can customize it as they see fit. But its the SAME piece of gear and every Gem and Enchant is obtainable.

    Here in elite dangerous. You have to roll the dice or play slot machine.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    We love this game. But please balance it for everyone. This not only makes it bad for people NOT PVPing because they cant put in the same time we do. But it makes it bad in the PVP world too. Trust me lots of people want to fight. But its not worth their time. And then what? Right now PVP is the biggest time sink and the biggest credit sink out there with no reward behind it to boot.

    Crime and Punishment wont mean anything if there is no one there to take part in it anyways. People are still going to die. And Top end PVPERS are still going to highwake.

    Please fix this stuff. And EVERYONE will be happy. Including the people that HATE pvpers right now. Because they would at least have a chance to learn and defend theirself.

    This is the only working game of its kind. And there are TONS of us that want to continue playing it. But its really hard to justify it sometimes. I have a really hard time recommending this game to people. I always say ITS A REALLY AWESOME GAME But.......
    All you needed was the video.

  13. #58
    OP - getting good at PvP in ANY game takes a lot of time and effort. A hell of a lot of time and effort. Its not just ED, its not just because of Engineers. You need to practice, practice, practice. No matter how engineered your ship, you will still lose to a better player as long as they are in a well kitted (and engineered) ship. Those extra % on rolls can help, but won't always be a deciding factor, especially if there is any reasonable difference in skill.

    I'm trying to get good at Paladins, but since its a seconday game for me, its taking a long time, and i will never reach the dizzy heights of top tier simply because i don't keep practicing. I'm playing ED too much.

    To be among the best, you need to dedicate time to it. I remember a chat with Nitek (ex-player and "emergent content creator") where he told me he practices PvP at least 2 hours a day in ED.

    That is the dedication you need to be top tier (cue PvPers saying Nitek sucked at PvP and rounds of epeen waving).

    You can get good at PvP to a reasonable level. Where you can be involved in fights and stand a chance of winning, but you still need to practice. Guys like Arguendo, Ozram, LeKeno and others, they got into PvP by training regularly. Are they relatively good at PvP yet? Can they take on top tier PvPers and win yet? I'm not sure, but they got to their level through practice.

  14. #59
    one of my main issues are the hollow RADAR blip for commanders, it should not be there, knowing where there are commanders and where there are NPC's is a no go regarding PVP.

  15. #60
    Originally Posted by Lysander lysan View Post (Source)
    one of my main issues are the hollow RADAR blip for commanders, it should not be there, knowing where there are commanders and where there are NPC's is a no go regarding PVP.
    How so?

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