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Thread: The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

  1. #1

    The Juicy Feedback Fdev was wanting. The reason Open sucks for everybody.

    Before Engineers, gaps were skill and credits earned.

    Now, its not just skill. But RNG LUCK on your modules wins fights more than skill. However, im not talking about countered matchups.

    The time to get there is a huge issue and a major turn off for people in OPEN play. We all play the same game. But we all dont have the same time.
    I dont mind them making stuff grindy to keep a player base, but as of late. Lots of people wont play in open because of it. Or people just left the game all together due to balancing issues.

    The community, PVPERS and PVERS have been begging for changes. PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY IN OPEN. But there is no reason to with how bad everything is balanced here.
    This game rewards time spent in every factor. Not what you do with the time because of RNG and luck.
    You should be able to calculate the dmg of each ship and build. And use your skills as a wing or solo to defeat them. RNG rolls should have been static.

    Honestly its not the people in open killing each other pushing people out of open.

    Its the Balancing and time needed to learn open is whats pushing people out of open. No one gets a fair shot to learn, its too costly to keep up. Especially for someone with a job or school.

    They want to keep people playing their game. But the rewards they get for their time in game is really bad. So everyone just plays in solo or private.

    Lets be honest everyone knows what can happen to them in open play. But its too detrimental to their game play to take part in it.

    Balance all this. Make our time worth while. We nerf missions rewards like crazy. Especially credits. The next money meta will pop up. When people can be making their credits across the galaxy based of their progression in game.

    Make open less threatening and scary. Reward traders and pvpers for their time. F-IT this goes for private and solo too.

    The only reason ive got this far into this game is because I can sit down and stream it for 6-8 hours a day. Ive turned streaming into my "JOB". I've lived in a spaceship for the past 9 months. Normal people dont get to do what I do. But you have to do what I do, or have that same amount of time over the course of your gameplay to get close.

    I played World of Warcraft. Rohan and some other Korean Grindy MMO's. But at least you were rewarded for your time in those game. And it wasnt based off RNG. Sometimes I've accomplished nothing in an 8 hour day grinding materials.

    Look at this video Peleluech put up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fEGFkbfBe8

    He shouldn't be doing this to be competitive. And how long did it take to get that one set of rolls?

    Now, lets talk about something here. People are right, he doesnt "HAVE" to do this. But the way PVPers play the game, our goal is to min max so we have an advantage. But everyone should be able to get the same outcome. And people simply dont have the time for this.

    Take a piece of gear in WoW. Everyone can customize it as they see fit. But its the SAME piece of gear and every Gem and Enchant is obtainable.

    Here in elite dangerous. You have to roll the dice or play slot machine.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    We love this game. But please balance it for everyone. This not only makes it bad for people NOT PVPing because they cant put in the same time we do. But it makes it bad in the PVP world too. Trust me lots of people want to fight. But its not worth their time. And then what? Right now PVP is the biggest time sink and the biggest credit sink out there with no reward behind it to boot.

    Crime and Punishment wont mean anything if there is no one there to take part in it anyways. People are still going to die. And Top end PVPERS are still going to highwake.

    Please fix this stuff. And EVERYONE will be happy. Including the people that HATE pvpers right now. Because they would at least have a chance to learn and defend theirself.

    This is the only working game of its kind. And there are TONS of us that want to continue playing it. But its really hard to justify it sometimes. I have a really hard time recommending this game to people. I always say ITS A REALLY AWESOME GAME But.......

  2. #2
    A couple of points that spring to mind.
    Firstly, I always play in open as a basically PVE player and never have any problems. The stories about it being some sort of permanent blood-bath are hugely exaggerated.
    Secondly, " The reason Open sucks for everybody"? If you have an opinion it's ok to just state it without needing to claim that you're a spokesman for everybody. It really doesn't help your case.

  3. #3
    Sorry, but I don't play in Open for completely different reasons.
    Giving feedback to FD is good.
    Claiming you speak for everyone is not.

    PvE - IronMan - One Life - One Death - Current CMDR : Chimwemwe Gwynn

  4. #4
    If it didnt suck 2 full mobius groups wouldnt overpower open in numbers now would it?

    And youre right. It is hugely exaggerated. Its not always a constant bloodbath.

    But the forum posts scare enough people where they wont take part or risk their ship.

    IE. .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

    Furthermore, go visit the hotel california thread. That thread alone will back up my "case".

    o7

  5. #5

    I disagree

    I play in open every time I log on. I NEVER have these issues you're talking about. While I agree this game can be grindy, the majority of the player base is very kind and you only find griefers around CG's and even then it's not that bad.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Wyaston Hypatia View Post (Source)
    Sorry, but I don't play in Open for completely different reasons.
    Giving feedback to FD is good.
    Claiming you speak for everyone is not.
    Im pretty sure people can understand its a generalized post about open play. Not your specific reason. However everything I posted above would effect you in open play.

    Its okay if you dont want to take part in it. But if you did everything I said above is true.

    If you dont play in open because of other reasons then fine. It doesnt apply to you. And you didnt have to comment in the first place.

    Not trying to be rude. But its pretty straight forward here. o7

  7. #7
    The fact you called them "griefers" kind of proves that point.

    We were supposed to be shooting each other. Its far from "griefing".

  8. #8
    Apart of being just another one-a-dozen hyperbolic thread, this belongs to the suggestion forum.
    Where are the mods?
    CMDR Mr Crown Vic P71

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by optimal_909 View Post (Source)
    Apart of being just another one-a-dozen hyperbolic thread, this belongs to the suggestion forum.
    Where are the mods?
    Do not seek them, for they will strike comments down.

    Back on topic, the OP appears to be under the illusion that Open is completely empty. It would appear, at least anecdotally give I still see people in open, that the application of an avoidable bounty (by making choices around who and what you shoot at) will empty it - is potentially overstating the impact.

    Open doesn't suck for everyone, it just has a set of terms that not all agree with. That's fine; this is why the developer has offered two additional options, so that there is choice.
    cmdr kofeyh | http://twitch.tv/kofeyh | "The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." – Citizen G'Kar

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by FrogsFriend View Post (Source)
    A couple of points that spring to mind.
    Firstly, I always play in open as a basically PVE player and never have any problems. The stories about it being some sort of permanent blood-bath are hugely exaggerated.
    Secondly, " The reason Open sucks for everybody"? If you have an opinion it's ok to just state it without needing to claim that you're a spokesman for everybody. It really doesn't help your case.
    Well regarding your first point, lucky old you, I tend to get wasted by players regularly for no real reason so I don't do OPEN anymore. The OP's point about real life and time is also my issue. Not enough time to roll those engineer upgrades, not enough time to grind away for weeks on end trying to get some item i need to engineer something which is rarer than a Unicorn's backside. The game is so out of balance I'm surprised it doesn't fall over. The OP doesn't speak for me but I agree with large parts of his pov.
    http://gizmostudios.proboards.com/th...e-ships-action Home of the ELITE ship pack for Freelancer

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Do not seek them, for they will strike comments down.

    Back on topic, the OP appears to be under the illusion that Open is completely empty. It would appear, at least anecdotally give I still see people in open, that the application of an avoidable bounty (by making choices around who and what you shoot at) will empty it - is potentially overstating the impact.

    Open doesn't suck for everyone, it just has a set of terms that not all agree with. That's fine; this is why the developer has offered two additional options, so that there is choice.
    2.4 beta forums are somewhat of a sanctuary after all thos 'quitting' threads, and why not strike down something that is OT.

    About open: it is so empty that it requires an effort to land on CG stations, and this morning I saw two Cutters docked at an obscure station...
    CMDR Mr Crown Vic P71

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Gibbon View Post (Source)
    Well regarding your first point, lucky old you, I tend to get wasted by players regularly for no real reason so I don't do OPEN anymore. The OP's point about real life and time is also my issue. Not enough time to roll those engineer upgrades, not enough time to grind away for weeks on end trying to get some item i need to engineer something which is rarer than a Unicorn's backside. The game is so out of balance I'm surprised it doesn't fall over. The OP doesn't speak for me but I agree with large parts of his pov.
    With a tiny bit of effort, it is possible to get away in an unengineered T7 (see at the bottom).
    Once I was interdicted in my engineered Cobra MY4 by an also engineered Vette and its buddy. I was able to high wake out without losing my shields.

    Very sweary video removed
    CMDR Mr Crown Vic P71

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    The only reason ive got this far into this game is because I can sit down and stream it for 6-8 hours a day. Ive turned streaming into my "JOB". I've lived in a spaceship for the past 9 months. Normal people dont get to do what I do. But you have to do what I do, or have that same amount of time over the course of your gameplay to get close.
    Who exactly is forcing you to do it?
    It's your own choice as I guess you're an adult who can choose what he wants to do.

    I don't get all these "no time to do X in a video game" threads.
    You choose to play elite dangerous in your spare time, you also choose what you're doing in game during that time.

    If someone decides not to go after engineer upgrades that is the individuals decision.
    As a consequence you'll never be able to be competitive in PvP encounters.

    There is nothing that's preventing anyone from getting the engineer upgrades.
    Everyone has the same chance of getting those rare god rolls.

    In all threads of similar kind you'll only read "please fix this stuff" without any suggestions whatsoever, might as well be a blog post or tweet.
    A forum is, per definition, a place to exchange/discuss ideas and/or topics, it is not a place to post entitled one-sided demands with the whole post trying to speak for the entire community.

    Also try to post in the correct forum next time.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by FrogsFriend View Post (Source)
    A couple of points that spring to mind.
    Firstly, I always play in open as a basically PVE player and never have any problems. The stories about it being some sort of permanent blood-bath are hugely exaggerated.
    Secondly, " The reason Open sucks for everybody"? If you have an opinion it's ok to just state it without needing to claim that you're a spokesman for everybody. It really doesn't help your case.
    Well for PvE itself you most likely don't even need engineers as NPCs don't have access to them (even though they land on their bases) but when you are ganked you don't stand a chance. A fully modded Hauler has more combat potential than a fully PvE fitted Anaconda or whatnot. The imbalance the engineers create between vanilla and engineered ships is so huge that no amount of credits, skill or other resources can overcome the dominance of the engineers. Hence every slightest percent of a roll can decide so many outcomes in a PvP and PvE scenario as any mod scales with other mods, resulting in potential oneshottings (PvE and PvP alike) vs vanilla ships, overflow of resources that no resource management is needed, thus decreeasing skill and the general feling of being behind because one doesn't want to grind all the engineers, let alone materials.
    Engineers are often locked behind a system permit, other useless engineers (Mister Qunt) and generally demand annoying task to unlock them for example mining or reaching 5k LY to proof 'they are a true explorer'.

    Since 90% of the modifications are combat oriented, traders and explorers are left behind compared to the combat players, expecially the PvP min-maxers.
    A complete balance overhaul is needed in order to make it balanced for everyone and thus making it fun for everyone in terms of equal chances and possibilities.
    Combat players have recieved significant buffs to bounty hunting and PvP or assasination missions or whatever kind of combat activities while explorers, traders and the like are left behind with the same boring tasks. Recently explorers recieved a buff in credit payouts (was about time) as credit payouts have been signifcantly increased since 1.0 where you would only get 150k for destroying an Elite Anaconda from a mission, plus a bounty payout of say 200k which sums up to 350k credits for destroying an elite Anaconda NPC in your Viper. In case you were flying an equal ship (Anaconda, fully fitted) your rebuy would be ~ 25m credits so you'd have to successfully ~75 missions of these just to cover your rebuy costs and eventually ammo refills.

    What 90s is saying is that engineers screwed balance in every aspect of the game and the progress gameplay. Credits are inflated and meaningless (for those knowing where the money is) and materials are so incredibly annoying to find by waiting for high grade emissions to spawn or hoping for settlements to drop cracked industrial firmware.
    Previously developing farming strategies or looking for good tarde runs would be the key to proper equipment and all those activities were skill based but today the engineers decide everything and the currency that engineers accept are materials and gathering them has nothing to do with skill but RNG.
    This is the main complaint and issue here. Sure Elite won't fail because of that but it doesn#t change the fact that there are better ,far better solutions to this and many have been suggested. However, this leads us to the next major issue that community request are usually not considered ... not because they are bad but because of "dev time" or "resources" or "too complicated". But said complexity .. or lack thereof is the key issue of all of the issues. By implementing content that is as deep or complex as a pond but as wide as a sea in order to save dev resources and/or financial resources we will always be confronted with issues that must be fixed at a later time anyways. Why not doing it correctly and most importantly complete the first time?
    Commander Crimson Kaim, hunting imperials since 3301!
    > Video logs <

    Loyal Federation Supporter



  15. #15
    Unfortunately, you added the word "everybody".

    It only takes one person to disprove your point

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