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Thread: Current PVP meta...

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Ian Doncaster View Post (Source)
    Iridium Wing are more the "neutral guys". The ends justify the means [1], etc.

    Everyone agrees that getting explorers back safely is 'good' in principle, until we're escorting someone who's about to drop 50 million in data on a faction you're trying to overthrow, or an explorer who in their non-exploring career has ended up on a bunch of KoS lists, etc. We're also quite happy to carry out criminal acts - including PvP ones - to keep an explorer safe. (And we're certainly happy to learn combat from people who are definitely not the 'good guys', because they're generally the people who know how to do it well.)

    [1] Except heat cannons and combat logging, of course. Got to have some standards...
    This is where the group needs to have its priorities outlined clearly, protecting individuals over their own agendas, or protecting their own agenda at the expense of lives. It's certainly true that black and white are just shades of grey in Elite.

    I'm pretty much decided, I'm going to create my own group (I've had the name, agenda and motto in mind for a while now), there is a niche for what I want to do.
    Who the hell are you? I called for the lord of flatulence, not one of his discharges. - John Constantine

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    will definitely think about it, thanks. Did you see my edit at the bottom of the other post?...
    Regarding bi-weaves: the simple story with them is that in PvP, you will more or less be under continuous fire. As being hit stops shield regen for a period of time, you're hard pressed to get that shield regen to kick in sometimes, and even more hard pressed to get enough time unhit to make the double regen worth it.

    You're then stuck using a lower cap shield that is more likely to break against a high alpha attack; the last thing you want is someone making a break for you with several rails, and your shields peeling apart in the first few moments of a match because the shields were too weak to hold while you co-ordinate yourself against the sudden onslaught.

    That's not to damn bi-weaves unconditionally. Don't tell anyone (especially not Truesilver...), but I use them on my iCourier, where it loves the lower power use than A-rated shields but I can arguably say will get enough time to regen under double chaff.
    "Please replace these components if use causes fatal damage: HEAT SINK. MAGAZINE. OPERATOR"

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by CenturionPuch View Post (Source)
    Lasers have a too big of a dmg fall-off and you need to keep pips full on weapons to use them.
    500mps is actually slow for an FDL.
    How can anyone have a combat build faster than that and call 500 slow? I have 30% (max on dirty drives) plus 12%(max is 15% bonus I think) extra added, no armour, everything is lighweighted or has mass reduction and I can only do 494 (with 42% over standard max)

    I keep getting told it's slow but even with the 3% more it wouldn't go more than 505, striped down to nothing and that's how fast mine goes with no shields or cells

    There is literally no way for me to increase it much further

    EDIT: So without the mods I'm doing 397 stripped down, adding 29% (I have a second dirty drive with 29%) should go to 512 (397 + 29%) but I get 482

    No idea what I'm doing wrong here

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by StiTch View Post (Source)
    Regarding bi-weaves: the simple story with them is that in PvP, you will more or less be under continuous fire. As being hit stops shield regen for a period of time, you're hard pressed to get that shield regen to kick in sometimes, and even more hard pressed to get enough time unhit to make the double regen worth it.

    You're then stuck using a lower cap shield that is more likely to break against a high alpha attack; the last thing you want is someone making a break for you with several rails, and your shields peeling apart in the first few moments of a match because the shields were too weak to hold while you co-ordinate yourself against the sudden onslaught.

    That's not to damn bi-weaves unconditionally. Don't tell anyone (especially not Truesilver...), but I use them on my iCourier, where it loves the lower power use than A-rated shields but I can arguably say will get enough time to regen under double chaff.
    Yeh, I hear ya. As a (traditional) tank, I'm all about effective health, and if PAs and rails is the meta, then the EH choice is OBVIOUS: as many MJ as possible. Also, like I said earlier if you go low mj high resist, you'd be silly not to carry batteries, whereas if you go full MJ you'd be silly TO carry batteries, so you get the battery AND the heatsink slot back. I'll be going full MJ shielding to start with and see what I come up against. Thanks again
    Who the hell are you? I called for the lord of flatulence, not one of his discharges. - John Constantine

  5. #35
    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    How can anyone have a combat build faster than that and call 500 slow? I have 30% (max on dirty drives)
    Oh, sweet summer child...

    On mobile now, when I get back I will explain on more detail.
    My Glorious Flightstation
    CMDR Herbrand - FA Off Trainee - HTC Vive user

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by StiTch View Post (Source)
    Regarding bi-weaves: the simple story with them is that in PvP, you will more or less be under continuous fire. As being hit stops shield regen for a period of time, you're hard pressed to get that shield regen to kick in sometimes, and even more hard pressed to get enough time unhit to make the double regen worth it.
    Though, if you have a decent hull under the shields, the shields will come back up from broken much faster with biweaves (compared with probably "too late" with prismatics), so you might get more total shields for the duration of the fight. Depends a lot on the ship class, the pilot's ability, and what the opposition is, of course - prismatics certainly are more forgiving for beginners and essential on the bigger ships.
    Returning explorer? Need an escort to keep your data and other shinies safe? Contact Iridium Wing. Sol and Colonia.

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by Ian Doncaster View Post (Source)
    Though, if you have a decent hull under the shields, the shields will come back up from broken much faster with biweaves (compared with probably "too late" with prismatics), so you might get more total shields for the duration of the fight. Depends a lot on the ship class, the pilot's ability, and what the opposition is, of course - prismatics certainly are more forgiving for beginners and essential on the bigger ships.
    Sorry yes - OP stated he'd be fighting until shields drop, so I gathered info on a hybrid build might not be best pitched here, but absolutely correct. If you're gutsy enough to run with a hybrid build and can accept it will probably get squashed by a good rail user, then bi-weaves are a magical, magical thing.

    I also know people that use bi-weaves on standard ships with SCBs (and have done so myself on an iClipper), but it's not an entry level technique as you say.
    "Please replace these components if use causes fatal damage: HEAT SINK. MAGAZINE. OPERATOR"

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Herbrand View Post (Source)
    Oh, sweet summer child...

    On mobile now, when I get back I will explain on more detail.
    Optimal multiplyer is max 30% on dirty drives with no bonus added

    Clean is 18%, you can't go over that without a bonus, so what is there to explain?

    You can't physically get more than that, except with the added bonus at the end

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    Optimal multiplyer is max 30% on dirty drives with no bonus added

    with no bonus added

    with no bonus added
    So indignant for someone that already answered the question themself

    Go look at the drives people have because they landed the right secondaries on them.
    "Please replace these components if use causes fatal damage: HEAT SINK. MAGAZINE. OPERATOR"

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    Optimal multiplyer is max 30% on dirty drives with no bonus added

    Clean is 18%, you can't go over that without a bonus, so what is there to explain?

    You can't physically get more than that, except with the added bonus at the end
    And that added bonus is exactly what you keep rolling for.
    My drive on the FDL now is plus 37% and that is the result of at least 150 rolls.
    The max is about 42% as I heard.
    I rolled a 40% roll with only minus 8.5 on optimal mass, but was a drive for the Anaconda and it's in the Corvette now where it doesn't matter all that much.
    I know, it's ridiculous..

  11. #41
    Oh well, someone beat me to it.
    My Glorious Flightstation
    CMDR Herbrand - FA Off Trainee - HTC Vive user

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by StiTch View Post (Source)
    So indignant for someone that already answered the question themself

    Go look at the drives people have because they landed the right secondaries on them.
    I hope you will meet the right people once that will teach you what is wrong with your attitude...the hard way

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by StiTch View Post (Source)
    So indignant for someone that already answered the question themself

    Go look at the drives people have because they landed the right secondaries on them.
    I haven't answered my own question, you answer makes no sense

    He was pointing out that I'd said I got 30% optimal mass (which is the maximum without a secondary effect)

    And was implying you can get higher than that without a secondary effect, you can't, 30% is the most you can get (my total is actually 42%, 30 max plus 12 secondary which my first post here says)
    Then a bonus gets added on, or secondary effect which raises it higher


    Originally Posted by CenturionPuch View Post (Source)
    And that added bonus is exactly what you keep rolling for.
    My drive on the FDL now is plus 37% and that is the result of at least 150 rolls.
    The max is about 42% as I heard.
    I rolled a 40% roll with only minus 8.5 on optimal mass, but was a drive for the Anaconda and it's in the Corvette now where it doesn't matter all that much.
    I know, it's ridiculous..
    So what your saying is that even though I rolled 30+ 12 for 42% total with secondary it's probably other factors that are weighing me down as I can do no where near those kind of speeds

  14. #44
    This is a nice thread with a ton of good advice.

    Chipping in on a few things:

    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    It seems efficient PAs are the go-to weapon for reasons of DPE (damage per energy) and the bypassing of resistances. However, knowing that, wouldn't current pvpers have gone for for MJ over resistance?
    No, because the solution to plasma is to be hit by it as infrequently as possible: evasion + active bi-weave regen. A high-resistance, low-mass Ferdie with +10% active bi-weave regen and possibly +x% broken regen also, boosting to 540 or 550 mps, will in the right hands survive against plasma longer than a heavy Ferdie with a prismatic and stacked heavy duty boosters and scant regen.

    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    I was thinking I'd pack a Huge Efficient gimballed Beam for popping SLFs and anyone running pure MJ with no regard to resistances, and 4 Medium Efficient PAs for hulls and those with resistances.
    I'd strongly advise against packing a primary weapon set with high draw and a secondary weapon set with high draw. (And yes, even with efficient, I do mean your PA's and huge beam are high draw.) The problem is that the one sucks the wep cap dry and when you want to fire the other, you have nothing to play with. It's too much.

    Therefore if you want to keep the quad PA setup, I'd advise dropping your huge weapon down to a multi or cannon or even a pulse, maybe even a frag ... basically anything except a beam.

    Alternatively if you want to keep the beam, consider dropping down on your medium hardpoints.

    Whatever you do, I'd seriously question the fixed mediums and gimballed huge. Although there are some excellent pilots that like this setup, it's very sub-optimal in terms of Ferdie placement. You'll get considerably more ToT in a 20 minute engagement with the gimbal(s) on top and the fixed on the bottom.

    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    I plan to do a Brave Sir Robin as soon as my shields go down, and with 500mps boost I should be able to
    I'm afraid that could be a death sentence, because many of your enemies will be running at 540-550 mps and packing long range super penetrator rails. Plus missiles and plasma. If you want to run a Ferdie that slow, do your Sir Robin before the shield drops!

    Originally Posted by amysteriousstranger View Post (Source)
    Optimal multiplyer is max 30% on dirty drives with no bonus added
    Basically by reason of the secondaries, assuming that the mass multiplier is something in the normal park, +37% is considered the start of 'acceptable', in serious PvP.

    +35% is kind of entry point. There are some exceptional builds with around that or lower that are good but only because of an insane mass multiplier.

    But with a normal mass multiplier, less than +35% just means more CIF gathering.

    There's a thread here about higher level rolls:

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/366176-OK-so-post-your-god-rolls

    EDIT:

    So what your saying is that even though I rolled 30+ 12 for 42% total with secondary it's probably other factors that are weighing me down as I can do no where near those kind of speeds
    Got a screenie? +42% is a god roll, so you should be moving fast even with a crummy mass multiplier. These aren't Enhanced Drives, are they (you have to deduct 15%)? But yeah, it could be that the mass multiplier is the issue here.
    Federal Vigilante PvP Executioner Friend and Supporter of Adle's Armada

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Truesilver View Post (Source)
    No, because the solution to plasma is to be hit by it as infrequently as possible: evasion + active bi-weave regen. A high-resistance, low-mass Ferdie with +10% active bi-weave regen and possibly +x% broken regen also, boosting to 540 or 550 mps, will in the right hands survive against plasma longer than a heavy Ferdie with a prismatic and stacked heavy duty boosters and scant regen.
    This is an interesting comment; as a PvP beginner, my impression is that 4-0-2 adds WAY more survivability than 0-4-2 - by a long margin. That is, unless your opponent is using slow (e.g. non-Long Range) Plasma, then it makes sense - I guess that boosting sideways while rolling would make you a VERY hard-to-hit target with fixed weapons.

    But the new thing for me, was pairing this with a Bi-Weave shield: as a matter of fact, the only duel I lost (not that I had many...) in the past couple of weeks was against deZpe, who packed Bi-Weaves. Food for thought...
    My Glorious Flightstation
    CMDR Herbrand - FA Off Trainee - HTC Vive user

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