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Thread: Current PVP meta...

  1. #1

    Current PVP meta...

    Yo, I'm getting close to achieving my main solo goals from this game, so I've started thinking about building a FDL and joining or forming a player group to protect non-combat ships at CGs, etc. General white-knighting...

    So this post while phrased like statements, is actually a series of questions, tell me if I'm making bad assumptions or am totally wrong or whatever.

    So current pvp meta is pretty much FDL, since I don't like flying battle whales.

    So, about shields and weapons...there's a chicken and egg thing going on here (as it should be, of course).

    It seems efficient PAs are the go-to weapon for reasons of DPE (damage per energy) and the bypassing of resistances. However, knowing that, wouldn't current pvpers have gone for for MJ over resistance? And in that case, wouldn't I do better running efficient beams for the massive thermal damage?

    I was thinking I'd pack a Huge Efficient gimballed Beam for popping SLFs and anyone running pure MJ with no regard to resistances, and 4 Medium Efficient PAs for hulls and those with resistances.

    For shields I was going to run a 5A G5 thermal resist with 2 thermal resist boosters, 1 kinetic resist booster, 2 heavy duty boosters and a point defence (for mines/torps).

    Lastly, in the FDL which has such great shields AND great speed, is it worth running reactive composites and HRPs? I plan to do a Brave Sir Robin as soon as my shields go down, and with 500mps boost I should be able to, so why would I bother weighing down my ship, reducing speed and maneuverability for armor, which if I'm using, means I've already lost?

    Anything else worth knowing about current meta?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Lasers have a too big of a dmg fall-off and you need to keep pips full on weapons to use them.
    500mps is actually slow for an FDL.

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by StarLightPL View Post (Source)
    I'll think about it. Are you a force for 'good' then?

    Originally Posted by CenturionPuch View Post (Source)
    Lasers have a too big of a dmg fall-off and you need to keep pips full on weapons to use them.
    500mps is actually slow for an FDL.
    What would you run instead of the beam for small maneuvrable ships and fighters? I can hit a vulture and bigger with fixed weapons, but I'd struggle with anything smaller flown by a decent pilot.

    As for the speed, it's fast enough, I'm not trying to become a legend, nor do I have time to grind for God rolls (plus I haven't unlocked Palin yet, that is one of my few remaining PvE goals, I've done the 5 kylies, but still need the fragments, trying to prepare myself psychologically for that). 'Good' rolls will have to do for now.

    Thanks for the input.

  5. #5
    If you just want to protect the Traders, you don't Need an offensive build IMHO. A super fast and manoeuvrable, silent shieldless ICourier (for harrassing) with two specific mods on its weapons should be sufficient: target lock breaker (to allow the Trader to flee) and FSD Interrupt (to prevent the ganker from pursuing the Trader). You can put a thermal cascade mine launcher on the third Slot or some other weapon with phasing sequence, to eventually force the ganker to dock for repairs after that "Encounter". Once the Trader is safe, harrass the ganker for as Long as you can before jumping out yourself.

    AFAIK, PVPers don't care about loosing their ships. They hate loosing time however. Make them loose as much of it as possible.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    I've done the 5 kylies, but still need the fragments, trying to prepare myself psychologically for that).
    Fragments are easy - find an alien crash site, smash UA, collect fragments, relog, done.

    Nice thread, running 4x efficient beams at the mo' (just for PvE, I am no expert) - looks like I might have to engineer some PAs instead

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    Anything else worth knowing about current meta?
    Yeah, it can be a lot more long ranged than I think you have it down as.

    Be prepared to meet FDLs sporting multiple rails, long range lazors or similar high distance wizardry. I can't state whether it will be a regular build you meet because I've been away from CGs for some time, but it is a popular 1v1 concept and absolutely merits consideration on what you'll do if you meet one.

    To be fair if your job is white-knighting, you interdict someone and they start flying off into the distance reverski, you might consider it a done job to shake them off another's tail anyway. If you're after the kill though...high speed reverski ships with rails never fail to draw a sigh from me. If you run in with a build without any long range elements, particularly a mostly gimballed setup, there's not much you can do.

    Specific points around your proposed build...even with efficient, that's a capacitor hungry looking ship. Being able to sustain pips in areas other than WEP is crucial on a ship such as the FDL; this is why overcharged multis are popular with many - at closer ranges with a good distributor mod, you can sustain fire happily with 1 to 2 pips.

    Utility wise, don't bother with the PD in this case. Especially if your game will be to run when shields drop, preserve the slot for something else. A lot of missile based armaments will be packhounds anyway, which aren't countered well at all by a single PD. What you use in utility should, at this point, look at your defensive strategy; are you going to use SCBs? Then I would recommend at least one heat sink. If you are not, then I can put in a recommendation for double chaff and 4 boosters (yup, chaff still has its purpose here, don't you worry). For the record, resistance based shields are used typically with SCBs. Pure Mj shield is however important in ships that might try to pull ramming off. Oh, and yes to good bulkheads; you'll still meet the odd ship with phasing.

    I might recommend something like this...
    https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer_...MA28QgIwV0A%3D

    Mod one MC corrosive, one emissive and the C4 with auto loader.

    Three gimballed MCs for reasonable close range damage pushing, two rails to stop you being walled by SCB boats, give you constant firepower against TLBs and sting back at someone that tries to go full reverski (unfortunately I can't give you a hard counter for this unless you want to go with even more rails and develop strong evasion skills).

    Best of all, that's a simple setup. You could probably pick something more effective from a "meta PvP" perspective, but I don't think it would be best for a newer PvPer. TLB plasmas are indeed popular, I just wouldn't recommend a full fixed setup to a newcomer.

    Don't worry about popping fighters. They're more trouble than they're worth, leave you open to being stung by the main ship and will be back on the field either in a short few moments or instantaneously depending on the hangar they have. Just fly evasively at all times where possible.

    EDIT: Of course, you can always run a surprise/hassling build if you want all results and no "duelling", but that's down to your own imagination. iCourier with three cascade torp launchers might shut a few big ship owners up for instance.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    Yo, I'm getting close to achieving my main solo goals from this game, so I've started thinking about building a FDL and joining or forming a player group to protect non-combat ships at CGs, etc. General white-knighting...

    So this post while phrased like statements, is actually a series of questions, tell me if I'm making bad assumptions or am totally wrong or whatever.

    So current pvp meta is pretty much FDL, since I don't like flying battle whales.

    So, about shields and weapons...there's a chicken and egg thing going on here (as it should be, of course).

    It seems efficient PAs are the go-to weapon for reasons of DPE (damage per energy) and the bypassing of resistances. However, knowing that, wouldn't current pvpers have gone for for MJ over resistance? And in that case, wouldn't I do better running efficient beams for the massive thermal damage?

    I was thinking I'd pack a Huge Efficient gimballed Beam for popping SLFs and anyone running pure MJ with no regard to resistances, and 4 Medium Efficient PAs for hulls and those with resistances.

    For shields I was going to run a 5A G5 thermal resist with 2 thermal resist boosters, 1 kinetic resist booster, 2 heavy duty boosters and a point defence (for mines/torps).

    Lastly, in the FDL which has such great shields AND great speed, is it worth running reactive composites and HRPs? I plan to do a Brave Sir Robin as soon as my shields go down, and with 500mps boost I should be able to, so why would I bother weighing down my ship, reducing speed and maneuverability for armor, which if I'm using, means I've already lost?

    Anything else worth knowing about current meta?
    Hey man, was about to head to sleep. Ill go over a FDL build with you.

    Weapons: The current meta is 3 efficient plasmas. 2 target lock breaker. 1 Dazzle. 2 medium sized railguns, one Long range cascade and one Long range super pen.

    * Rail gun rolls, just use g1 Sulfur rolls, and roll for thermal heat reduction long range. Then apply the special effect. You dont gain any dmg, Not worth using any of the other rolls.

    3 fixed laser long range burst lasers 1 Scramble spectrum, 1 emissive and 1 thermal shock(for when someone banks you raise the heat on em a bit) then the same two rails. This is called hitscan. And if you fire fixed lasers, you can fire rail guns. Use a subtarget to pull up the box long distance. When you do your rolls. Try to aim over 5.5k And look for a dmg/distro increase at the same time.

    All Gimbaled multicannons. Is what I use. Its countered with chaff and has a dps loss compared to fixed. However when used correctly you can win fights with this. And it counters some builds out there. Gimbals allow you to be more evasive while acquiring time on target. Hence the balance of DPS loss to compensate. Run 1 huge rapid fire multi cannon with corrosive shell, 4 over charged multi cannons, 3 thermal, 1 emissive. (THIS BUILD IS HOT) I dont run chaff, I have 1 set of sinks to control my heat and 1 set for triple banking. Both chaff/heatsinks engineered to extra ammo.

    *Can swap out a multi cannon for a set of heat pack hounds. Pack hounds also strip external modules when shields are down. They do aoe dmg.

    Shields: Prismatics thermal resist grade 5 is a good beginner build Module Slot 4. I wouldnt suggest biweave until you understand Human vs Human combat. Knowing the builds and capabilities of others. It hard to know how to get your uses out of biweaves. They are the stronger shield though. And I cant teach you that experience. You just have to get out there.

    Shield Cell Banks : Engineer these if you want. I dont but it would save me some heat. Get heat reduction on these. I run 3 Shield cell banks. My Banks are on slot 5, 4, 3. The size 2 is an interdictor. I dont bother with hull reinforcements or module reinforcements. This is shield build. Proper use of your sinks during turns to get as much time as you need to you arent hit with rails is important. So try to predict this. Your build relys on it.

    I run 2 resit augmented boosters all above 15.5% in Thermal,Kinetic and explosive across the board. Heavy duty boosters are okay, but very heavy. Good against PA's, thats up to you. I like to go fast.

    Thrusters: Positioning is key. Grade 5 dirty drives from palin. You want your multiplier as close to 142 as possible. Thats the max roll. Im currently sitting at 136. (Always work on this)

    Distributor: Grade 5 charge enhanced. You goal here is to get a huge increase on how fast you fill your cups. Pip Management is important and it comes down to part of the battle. If your cup fills faster than the other guy. It makes things easier on you. SO WORK ON THIS ALL THE TIME. JUST LIKE YOUR DRIVES!

    A rated sensors. your preference in engineers. Just make sure they are A rated.

    *You can remove Bank and use a Size 2 slot for Hull Reiforcement. Thermal resit on a size 2 is the same as the thermal resit on a size 5. The only difference is the HULL amount gained cause of the module size. So if you want to boost a specific resit use a size 2 or 3.

    Hull you can go light weight. It is a shield build. But you will die when they go down. I personally use Heavy duty and that gives you flat resist across the board. Reactive armor is okay but more for hull tanking.

    I've always enjoyed fighting to the death. I have a lot of rebuys and it takes a lot to learn. Its okay to lose. By typing GG or GF most of the time the fight will stop. Not all the time though, but thats okay. The reason I fight to the death is because I learn how to survive that much longer. Its where I learned the power of FA off ONLY flying, remember positioning in key. So during the last 10% of my hull, I lasted longer, and then the next fight. I applied that and stayed alive longer and started winning.

    Fighting to the death is very rewarding. But very expensive. But its what it takes. Hope to see you out there at the CGS. Get ready for fun. Its okay if you get ganked by 3-4 people. Sometimes massive hairballs happen. Good luck dude.

    Also this build will allow you to stay in a PVE Conflict Zone for a VERY VERY VERY long time. You'll never have to leave and youll kill things fast.(Great place to start learning biweaves later)

    If you or anyone else has any questions. Ill check back tomorrow to answer.

    And check out the GCI discord. Without them I couldn't have told you guys this. They have all the good guys and bad guys helping everyone. They have multiple ship builds, they will do evaluations on your 1v1's to help you get better and they have lots of documents that go more into why the meta is the meta.

    Traders come too, you want to play in open. These builds will allow you to stay alive in your trader ships. And then you start griefing the griefers cause they cant kill you. When you're properly outfitted. They better come with grom missiles and torps baby. And not everyone carries those.

  9. #9
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)


    What would you run instead of the beam for small maneuvrable ships and fighters? I can hit a vulture and bigger with fixed weapons, but I'd struggle with anything smaller flown by a decent pilot.

    As for the speed, it's fast enough, I'm not trying to become a legend, nor do I have time to grind for God rolls (plus I haven't unlocked Palin yet, that is one of my few remaining PvE goals, I've done the 5 kylies, but still need the fragments, trying to prepare myself psychologically for that). 'Good' rolls will have to do for now.

    Thanks for the input.
    You can't really build a ship that is good for everything. But for the ones that are good at aiming (not me yet) 3x PA and 2x rails with one super pen one cascade seems to work.
    The speed isn't about being a legend. G5 dirty also helps at turning the ship and if you don't have it you will be out flown by everyone.
    But be prepared the real grind starts when you unlock palin and you want to get a good roll on the drives. It requires lots of Crack (cracked industrial firmware) and that is not easy to come by.
    Of course you might get lucky and get a 140% first roll, but for most it's a never ending quest.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    I'll think about it. Are you a force for 'good' then?
    Neither evil nor good, it depends on the individual how he/she is using his/her skill set. And I'm an initiate too ;-) but currently waiting for Elite mojo to return to really start practicing PvP.

  11. #11
    Stitch and 90s kid gave very sound advice. I can echo that the GCI discord is the best source of advice and information, there are a lot of top tier pilots that hang out there and virtually all of them are happy to give advice.

    My own 2 cents is to get familiar with weapons you may have never used before. PAs, rails, cannons, frag cannons. A lot of weapons that don't see use in PvE see lots of use in PvP.

    Also, when they talk about meta builds (3 PA 2 rail FDL), it won't do you much good if you haven't practiced with those weapons. 90s kid uses gimballed MCs because he can use them to their strengths. For PvP out in the wild, a lot of builds can be viable. Fly what you are comfortable with and have fun experimenting too!

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    I'll think about it. Are you a force for 'good' then?



    What would you run instead of the beam for small maneuvrable ships and fighters? I can hit a vulture and bigger with fixed weapons, but I'd struggle with anything smaller flown by a decent pilot.

    As for the speed, it's fast enough, I'm not trying to become a legend, nor do I have time to grind for God rolls (plus I haven't unlocked Palin yet, that is one of my few remaining PvE goals, I've done the 5 kylies, but still need the fragments, trying to prepare myself psychologically for that). 'Good' rolls will have to do for now.

    Thanks for the input.
    GCI is everyone. Good guys and Bad guys. There is no role playing here. There is only getting really good at combat. We set up tournaments and when people get really good then can try to qualify for the PVP league. Good guys and Bad guys all help each other. Then the roleplaying stays in the game. We all respect each other, even though PVP actions can get heated. We still shake hands and go at it again.

    2 rules no premium ammo, we try to keep it as fair and balanced as possible. No combat logging.

    Try to be respectful of the GG and GF's in a fight. However its not mandatory as I am sure you'll find out. Most wing fights end in death. 1v1's are a place to learn different load outs and ship maneuverability.

    So, we leave the BS at the door. And we help each other git gud. Then we fight in the game for various reasons. And its fun to have real fights for real reasons when you arent 1v1ing and so forth.

    We are the good guys always have been.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    but still need the fragments, trying to prepare myself psychologically for that).
    Go to one of the crashed ships - there will be UAs and the like lying around. Shoot them for the fragments. Leave and come back to reset the instance if logging out to do the same bothers you.

  14. #14
    Question: why Efficient Plasma? I use two Long Range Plasma as it helps a lot with hitting, due to the increase in projectile speed.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Herbrand View Post (Source)
    Question: why Efficient Plasma? I use two Long Range Plasma as it helps a lot with hitting, due to the increase in projectile speed.
    Less distro draw. All around buffs in all catagories. More time on target with plasmas when close or out maneuvering.

    Long range pairs well with Fixed multis though. You can engineer them to share the same leading reticule for no needs for adjustment.

    On my FAS I use size 3 fixed thermal frag cannons and 2 focused plasmas. Good in wing fights as long as someone as a bank stopper, strips shields, really good vs large ships.

    All preference really. Just as long as you can make it work. o/

    EDIT: Meta is META though. Its the Most Efficient Tactical Advantage, Best in slot. This is why when metas are established in other games. They change the stats, characters ect to change peoples play styles and keep the game fresh. So its good changes happen. Its all about adapting. You can git gud. But can you stay gud?

    Its almost harder to be a slave to the META. If you stick to one specific play-style(one trick). You will know your build so well, you can beat anything by tweaking your play. You learn your win conditions.

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