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Thread: Extremely sad that I am sick of exploring...My thoughts, what about yours?

  1. #91
    Not much to add to this. So many of you have taken the words out of my mouth before I knew what the words should be.

  2. #92
    One thing I thought was ridiculous was that the entire galaxy was already fully known. We have a galaxy map that shows the locations of every single system in the galaxy, with every star identified in those systems already! What's the point of that? How would we even know that? How would we have that data if the galaxy is supposedly "unexplored" beyond the bubble to start with? What's to actually *explore* if we already know what's in systems on the other side of the galaxy? At that point we're just checking in to find the details, not really EXPLORING.

    I think it would have been much better to have a 'fog of the unknown' on the map. You can only see systems that have either already been mapped (handed in to UCart) or that are within a certain distance from you. Ones that you can see can have their stellar data as it currently shows up on the Galaxy Map (that can then be updated into UCart when you hand it in), ones that you visit get the System Map data as well. if you want to be fancy then you can even base it on stellar luminosity, so you can see BDs within say 5 ly, M V within 10 ly, K V within 20 ly, G V within 30 ly etc. Or just calculate the apparent magnitude for the stars within say 200 ly and you can only see the ones with apparent magnitude less than +8 o 10. Maybe even tie it into sensor quality. Or something like that.

    This way you'd have vast areas of the galaxy that are unknown. Are there stars out there? Who knows. Go closer and then they will be revealed. And then you'll find surprises like nebulae etc. That would make it so much more interesting, I think.

  3. #93
    Hopefully the Thargoids will disrupt the fabric of witchspace and use a virus to corrupt the PF databases so we have to start again.

  4. #94
    Originally Posted by malenfant View Post (Source)
    One thing I thought was ridiculous was that the entire galaxy was already fully known. We have a galaxy map that shows the locations of every single system in the galaxy, with every star identified in those systems already! What's the point of that? How would we even know that? How would we have that data if the galaxy is supposedly "unexplored" beyond the bubble to start with? What's to actually *explore* if we already know what's in systems on the other side of the galaxy? At that point we're just checking in to find the details, not really EXPLORING.

    I think it would have been much better to have a 'fog of the unknown' on the map. You can only see systems that have either already been mapped (handed in to UCart) or that are within a certain distance from you. Ones that you can see can have their stellar data as it currently shows up on the Galaxy Map (that can then be updated into UCart when you hand it in), ones that you visit get the System Map data as well. if you want to be fancy then you can even base it on stellar luminosity, so you can see BDs within say 5 ly, M V within 10 ly, K V within 20 ly, G V within 30 ly etc. Or just calculate the apparent magnitude for the stars within say 200 ly and you can only see the ones with apparent magnitude less than +8 o 10. Maybe even tie it into sensor quality. Or something like that.

    This way you'd have vast areas of the galaxy that are unknown. Are there stars out there? Who knows. Go closer and then they will be revealed. And then you'll find surprises like nebulae etc. That would make it so much more interesting, I think.
    I assumed that only the stars were known. They're kind of big and bright. You can also see nebula, they're not a surprise either.

    And then, when players jump in, the stellar forge generates something inside the system and starts tracking it.

  5. #95
    I just want to pop in here and say I'm content with what we already do have. That doesn't mean I'm against making it bigger and better, when it comes to exploration, just feel that it's too strong to be 'extremely sad' about it.

    However, one thing I WOULD change: how places are "undiscovered" even though they are clearly already explored by prior players. The galaxy is PLENTY large enough for players to find new and unexplored things to scan. At the very least, I want a different ingame name for truely undiscovered celestial objects, and stuff that other players (and/or NPCs...?) have already visited.

    If a place is truely "unknown", then I want to know about that. I really don't care or think of it as "unexplored" territory if it's inhabited or has already been marked by another player.

    (I mean, I swear there are some areas in the bubble that are listed as "unexplored" on your first visit, even though the system is rife with billions of inhabitants and terraformed worlds...how goofy is that?)

  6. #96
    Originally Posted by Teh Smoo View Post (Source)
    I assumed that only the stars were known. They're kind of big and bright. You can also see nebula, they're not a surprise either.

    And then, when players jump in, the stellar forge generates something inside the system and starts tracking it.
    Only takes a couple of well-written sentences to explain away why in new Galaxy X you can only see a sector's 'contents" if you get there, and can only see nebulae with your own eyes til you're pretty close.
    50 or so dev-crafted, non-proc diffuse nebs - plus the same number a of proc-genned - scattered galaxy that you had to hunt down...lovely.

  7. #97
    Originally Posted by Teh Smoo View Post (Source)
    I assumed that only the stars were known. They're kind of big and bright. You can also see nebula, they're not a surprise either.

    And then, when players jump in, the stellar forge generates something inside the system and starts tracking it.
    "big and bright" only to a certain extent. When ED launched, the galaxy map was there. Every single system's location - even on the other side of the galaxy, that nobody could possibly know - had been mapped out and was shown on the map. If you hover over any system anywhere in the galaxy, whether explored or not, whether it's even been *seen* or not - you can get a list of all the stars in it, whether they are brown dwarfs or red dwarfs (that should be completely invisible beyond 50 ly radius or so), or any other kind of star.

    So sure, stars are "big and bright" on a human scale, but the vast majority of stars are BDs (which aren't even proper stars) and M dwarfs and on a galactic scale those are pitifully dim and not even detectable beyond a few hundred lightyears at most even with the best technologies, and certainly you can't get their locations that accurate thousands of lightyears away (and the galaxy is about 100,000 ly across). And Nebulae aren't necessarily that visible either - you need long exposures to see most of them.

    There's just no way whatsoever that we could know the locations and contents of all the systems in the galaxy, if at the start of the game we were stuck in the Bubble. It's flat-out impossible. The fully-known galaxy map that we have is just an in-game conceit to make moving around the galaxy easier, but do yourself a favour and don't try to explain it in terms of realism, because it isn't realistic or even reasonable at all and it makes no sense whatsoever in terms of the setting.

  8. #98
    Originally Posted by malenfant View Post (Source)
    "big and bright" only to a certain extent. When ED launched, the galaxy map was there. Every single system's location - even on the other side of the galaxy, that nobody could possibly know - had been mapped out and was shown on the map. If you hover over any system anywhere in the galaxy, whether explored or not, whether it's even been *seen* or not - you can get a list of all the stars in it, whether they are brown dwarfs or red dwarfs (that should be completely invisible beyond 50 ly radius or so), or any other kind of star.

    So sure, stars are "big and bright" on a human scale, but the vast majority of stars are BDs (which aren't even proper stars) and M dwarfs and on a galactic scale those are pitifully dim and not even detectable beyond a few hundred lightyears at most even with the best technologies, and certainly you can't get their locations that accurate thousands of lightyears away (and the galaxy is about 100,000 ly across). And Nebulae aren't necessarily that visible either - you need long exposures to see most of them.

    There's just no way whatsoever that we could know the locations and contents of all the systems in the galaxy, if at the start of the game we were stuck in the Bubble. It's flat-out impossible. The fully-known galaxy map that we have is just an in-game conceit to make moving around the galaxy easier, but do yourself a favour and don't try to explain it in terms of realism, because it isn't realistic or even reasonable at all and it makes no sense whatsoever in terms of the setting.
    In Elite's setting, humanity has been sending out FTL probes for over a thousand years and is capable of (close to) real-time FTL communication. While I would have vastly preferred the exploration design approach Frontier originally intended, it is not all that difficult to explain why we have a complete map of the stars of the galaxy.

  9. #99
    Exploration needs new stuff happening soon.

    Personally, I would love to pay a couple billion credits to be able to build a space station wherever I want in the galaxy. Some of the systems we discover are really amazing and I'd love if we could make them special somehow.

  10. #100
    Originally Posted by drkaii View Post (Source)
    One more important thing I'd like to add if you are still listening Dale is with regards to Erimus' post. Not sure if everyone agrees with it but if they do, then it's not too late to implement if you are planning on opening up the magellanic clouds. It could work perfectly there with regards to lore - it's somewhere so far that no sky surveys could locate the stars, so it truly would require actually finding routes through it. I would happily let the devs put that off by even a couple of years if that's what is in store! Could you pass it on?

    This thread has seen almost every major professional big name explorer give an opinion on the state of exploration. I am very grateful to them all and happy to know it has become this important.

    If you do nudge the decision makers at Frontier on this stuff, you can consider us even on the nudging!
    fantastic idea and could work very well, but if they did make it a shroud could they keep it a shroud for all to explore, what I mean is yes I love the community but we all know those with more time will explore at a greater rate than others, I don't want to get there and see the stars, tags I don't care about I just want the same shroud as the 1st explorer saw so I can enjoy it just as much and actually explore, otherwise its just another star cluster I will visit, unfortunately one step behind those with more time on their hands.

    if you want to see the stars the option could still be in game to buy the basic outline from universal cartographics

    and may I add if this was indeed in game it would be a massive draw for myself to explore every single system in the cloud

  11. #101
    Thanks everyone for the extremely interesting thread. I agree with most of what has been said, and I hope (and Dale's intervention makes me optimistic) that this will be noted by the development team.

    You probably are already aware of this, but in case you missed it, this is the last thing we've heard from Sandro regarding possible (#noetanoguarantees) new gameplay mechanics regarding exploration:

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander RLSG!

    We won't just be looking at stellar body discovery.

    To be clear, the reasons I would like to replace the honk and eyeball scanning would not be to drag out exploration time, but to give the game play:

    * A modicum of player-skill, along with a suitable minor skill-based reward
    * A feeling of verisimilitude, that you're operating advanced sensor equipment like a boss
    * Satisfying processes, improved visual/audio/interactions
    * A reduction required super cruise travel, so you only need to travel to a planet if you're definitely interested in investigating it

    Also worth noting, this is a separate point to the concept of having things to discover during exploration (which we see as equally important).
    Note the last point: exploration is composed of two elements: the stuff you discover, and how you discover it. I think that this thread is more concerned with the former rather than the latter, but I think that the best case scenario is one where they develop both at the same time.

    We are just 3 weeks away from the Expo. I really hope that we will be given something substantial there. Nobody expects stuff like "go home and log in, we added atmospheric planets!", but a well-defined timeline of additions would be very, very nice. As many have noted, communication is key. Do you remember Zac's post from a few months ago, the "announcing the announcement" of the Expo? (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...2-4-and-beyond). (BTW, here it was mentioned that at the Expo we would see "news on that content and our roadmap". I don't want to be too literal, but hey roadmap would be awesome)

    That seemed like a very good step in the right direction, and I think I also remember someone (Ed?) promising more development-focused livestreams. Unfortunately, those remained isolated cases. Apart from Sandro seeking feedback on some very specific issues, the communication is pretty much closed. I understand the fear of over-promising, but I also think that FDev should not be shy to treat its player-base like adults. Tell us more, even if what you are telling us is "we are doing this, but this is SO HARD to do right for this, this, and this reason, so it will take at least X months". I think it would be much more productive than keeping stuff to yourself, for fear of disappointing.

  12. #102
    Would absolutely LOVE to be able to travel to and explore the Large Magellanic Cloud, as some others have mentioned in this thread and I've mentioned elsewhere. Rough estimates seem to suggest that there is something like 10 billion stars there, so still enough unknown to explore for sure, and being well beyond the conventional reaches of our Milky Way and current jump technology within the game, other than maybe Jaques Station, or similar, the sense of isolation, separation, and extreme distance seems very compelling to me.

    On the other hand, being well off the galactic plane and not all that far away in the grand scheme of things (off the top of my head, something like 120K LYs from the Milky Way), there is also a lot about it that is known and observable, and of that, it seems very compelling indeed, so, yet another reason why I think it would be very cool to be able to travel there and explore it.







    I doubt that this would be something that could be easily implemented, but playing primarily as an explorer as I do in the game, I would very much like to see it. The new frontier, if you will. What new wonders might it hold?

    Colonia sort of started out as the new frontier, but now I'd say it's an extension of human civilization as it is in the game. The less remote it gets and seems, the less compelling I find it, but that's just me. It's still remote, but its remoteness seems to be slowly diminishing. Being nearly halfway across the bulk of the Milky Way, this likewise also seems to take away from the scale of the galaxy in terms of distance, though of course there are still an overwhelming number of unexplored systems within it, the vast majority of which will likely never be visited by us players. Still, I'm glad that they're there for us to find none the less, of course.

    I would love more compelling game mechanics and a wider variety of things to discover, but I at least would also prefer that the scale of the galaxy remain a daunting undertaking and commitment for those who choose to push the boundaries and go the distance, as this can be vary compelling and is largely an optional endeavor for explorers and adventuresses alike within this game.

    So, essentially what I'm getting at here is that I'd prefer more player agency and varied exploration and travel mechanics in general, and less catering to the path of least resistance, i.e., jump honking and range boosting. I'm not saying that the mechanics we have now should change necessarily, but expanded and improved upon in new and interesting ways.

  13. #103
    I think that any change should be additive, not subtractive. People talking about "greater difficulty in scanning" are following a path which holds that their game is more valuable than mine. I *don't* like parallax searching, it's mind-numbingly tedious. If new things that require complicated discovery procedures are introduced they should be *as well as* what we already have, not *instead of*. I.e. a new galaxy with unknown, hard to find stars is cool, but don't mess with the Milky Way.

  14. #104
    Originally Posted by Cocalarix View Post (Source)
    Also, Dale needs a raise. 10/10 interaction with the community.
    Agreed.

  15. #105
    Originally Posted by JT442 View Post (Source)
    Where can we go which has not been seen before? There are 4 billion stars, and the choice is unbelievably limited...
    There is still hope. Three words of hope to be exact.

    Permit Locked Systems.

    Don't fudge it, FDev.

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