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Thread: Question of the week: Like tears in the rain?

  1. #31
    Too bad she won't live!

    But then again who does?

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Bran Tse Mallory View Post (Source)
    Song hint: "Like tears in the rain" & "Ice on a desert plain" are the clues for the correct song
    Shouldn't be to hard, I've posted the song/video on these very forums...

    Dear Tj,

    Sorry if my thread leads to the return of the night terrors but I figured you'd had it to easy for to long. So consider this a reminder for yourself, Mr Phillips & Maynard and even the unicorn bloke... I'm back - In small doses though

    P.S. Aunty, I have not forgotten the state of war that exists between us so be warned...
    Well my thoughs for the song are Amoeba Assassin - Piledriver

    As to the DDF., they should use it as a rough guide.

  3. #33

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Bran Tse Mallory View Post (Source)
    Well done! We have a winner!
    I'm stuck with Jesus to a Child by George Michael in my head, cos that's all I could think of. Thanks a lot, Bran.

    P.s. it'd be nice if the Devs ask for our input! If some of the DDF stuff happens, that'd be nice too.

  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Bran Tse Mallory View Post (Source)
    Very true indeed. Do you suspect that Frontier already have a road map in place for the upgrades that will be revealed to us in some manner as and when right to do so?
    I would put money on them having a road map in place, it may have shifted based on feedback, but it will be there.

    Originally Posted by Kayweg View Post (Source)
    That's really a very simplified way to look at it, but convenient of course. I mean who would go back and actually check that, seeing as it's 3-4 years ago now.
    The ideas discussed there were inserted by FD devs themselves, with many individual threads on very specific topics.
    It was not just some suggestion forum or think tank were backers were shooting the breeze.
    And no, not "everyone believed those ideas would 100% exist at some point", you're belittling big spending backers as if they didn't know that.
    And the expectations didn't just spring from out of the earth or something. The game was being designed at the time, and FD sharing their ideas reasonably lead people to believe that the ideas they posted would make it into the game, to a fair degree at least.
    Let me encourage you to spend some time reading through the DDA, and notice how much of it hasn't made it, almost 3 years down the line....and with the probability that it never will, because the game turned out entirely different.
    I wasn't part of that discussion forum, but i read quite a bit of it. In the end it was a major factor to make my buying decision.
    So, it's always funny, and oh so predictable, seeing the burden being laid on "over-expecting" customers, when the game makers do their utmost to fuel those expectations, because that makes all those shiny bucks roll into their coffers.
    The problem with the DDF wasn't one of expectation, it was one of a developer biting more off then they could chew.
    Okay. Let me first apologise for summarising it so poorly.

    To clarify, not that it makes my personal opinion any more valid, but I did pay to be part of the DDF myself.
    So I do not need to read the archive, I was there as it unfolded.

    Personally, I understood from the outset that it was an opportunity to discuss ideas and provide feedback directly to the developers.
    I did not see it as a direct blueprint for the game and was never under the illusion that everything that was discussed would make the final cut.

    I would however argue that is it not a case of the 'developer biting more off then they could chew', simply one of the fans expecting more than could be reasonably delivered.

    In my opinion, it is disingenuous to say that Frontier mislead people into thinking something MUST make the final cut because it was a discussion point.
    Every topic there was nothing more than that, a discussion point.
    There were many trivial threads (e.g. Trumbles) that were discussed and subsequently dropped.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    There were many trivial threads (e.g. Trumbles) that were discussed and subsequently dropped.
    Here are the tears....

    So u are saying I wont get Trumble Torpedos???

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by metascrawl View Post (Source)
    Too bad she won't live!

    But then again who does?
    Ya totally thought this was going to be a "Where are the Androids?" thread

  8. #38
    I want to suggest something on topic:

    1. Fdev should give us a list of topics (in some detail) they want to add/improve in general and for some undefined future
    2. We decide (e.g. by poll, gives a value in percent for each topic) what we think has higher or lower priority

    This gives a list of additions/improvements with top to down importance for the community.

    3. Fdev puts to every task on this list an estimated level of difficulty to implement (1=easy, 10=hardest)

    With the 2-4 years experience we all have now this should give some quite stable to-do list.

    With that list a short and a long term release plan could be implemented:

    On the short term release plan (e.g. release every 3 month or shorter) we get the tasks with lower level of difficulty in the order of priority.
    On the long term release plan (e.g. once a year or longer) we get the tasks with higher level of difficulty again in the order of priority.

    The long term releases could be subject to a charge if there is a need for that (up to Fdev to decide).

    This strategy gives everybody the opportunity to bring in its own competence. The community knows best what it wants, Fdev knows best what it costs (in terms of workload/difficulty and even if it is possible at all).

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Bran Tse Mallory View Post (Source)

    As always play nice with each other or one of the mods might get upset...
    The mods are always upset.

    Quote
    "The community knows best what it wants"

    My experience of the community is that if you put a typical fdev forum member in a room by themselves, they will eventually disgaree and have a punch up with themselves

    Bill

    Updates? getting rid of bug of the week after 2.4 without introducing 14 other bugs would be my idea ....

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by steevaavoo View Post (Source)
    Joe Satriani - Tears in the Rain?
    Blade Runner surely

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by William J Smith View Post (Source)
    Quote
    "The community knows best what it wants"
    In the sense of a swarm intelligence you need to force consents (e.g. with a poll).

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by RexKraemer View Post (Source)
    I want to suggest something on topic:

    1. Fdev should give us a list of topics (in some detail) they want to add/improve in general and for some undefined future
    2. We decide (e.g. by poll, gives a value in percent for each topic) what we think has higher or lower priority

    This gives a list of additions/improvements with top to down importance for the community.

    3. Fdev puts to every task on this list an estimated level of difficulty to implement (1=easy, 10=hardest)

    With the 2-4 years experience we all have now this should give some quite stable to-do list.

    With that list a short and a long term release plan could be implemented:

    On the short term release plan (e.g. release every 3 month or shorter) we get the tasks with lower level of difficulty in the order of priority.
    On the long term release plan (e.g. once a year or longer) we get the tasks with higher level of difficulty again in the order of priority.

    The long term releases could be subject to a charge if there is a need for that (up to Fdev to decide).

    This strategy gives everybody the opportunity to bring in its own competence. The community knows best what it wants, Fdev knows best what it costs (in terms of workload/difficulty and even if it is possible at all).
    I would have hoped Frontier would have already got their season 3 road map in place and be well into the delivery phase by now

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Sir T.j View Post (Source)
    Oh gawd who let you loose again???.
    Truzenzuzex must have gone for a visit back to Hivehom

    (give me +REP if you even understand what that means in relation to the OP, please don't explain it, it will be interesting to see how many true sci-fi geeks there are here without using google-fu)

    as for my answer - not how they normally do it, because clearly that isn't working for us, sorry, YOU; the players.

    More hotfixes as they are completed instead of rollouts en mass (if that's actually what they do, i'm still not convinced)

    work out what can be fixed quickly and deal with that - I know lots of people want specific areas fixed FIRST, but FDev badly need to repair thier reputation in this regard and putting out quite a few rapid rollouts of hotfixes, would help enormously (that actually work and aren't poorly thought out bandaids, so as to appear they are "doing something about it" as is their norm.)

    NO. MORE. RADIO. SILENCE.

    Cloud Imperium games has managed to stretch their dev time YEARS beyond the projected date simply because they are open and honest with their backers. Do you know how much hate they get when they add further delays? almost none. The only major ridicule CI gets is from this forum and it's white knights. Says a lot that does.

    Yes I know FDev tried this to a lesser extent and got shot down for it, but that was back then, and TBH they kinda deserved it because the stuff they told us was garbage, and they delivered garbage - things that weren't part of the original development layout in favor of things that to this day are largely ignored by a majority of the playerbase.

    STOP WITH THE FORCED "hey look at this it's amazing" youtubes. The last one I saw being touted was about how 2 FDev employees were trying out CQC or some guff. We don't care about seeing how 2 employees tried some stuffs ALREADY IN THE GAME. There are streamers aplenty to watch, with more skill and without the barely concealed attempts to generate interest in parts of the game most people would rather forget.

    DELIVER WHAT WAS PROMISED. Add all the missing parts from the KS. ALL OF IT, and in a way that's actually worth engaging with rather than YET ANOTHER goddamn placeholder.

    DO NOT ADD ANYTHING NOT IN THE DDF. I don't care how "good" some team member thinks his brainchild will be, the DDF is a veritable smorgasbord (look it up) of ideas that will keep you busy for at least a decade, at your rate of production more like 2. The vast majority of them are good and well thought out. You asked for them, you made people PAY TO DISCUSS THEM, why the hell aren't you using them? (the cynic in me has a reply to that but i'm going to play nice for this post)

    DO NOT DO ANYTHING LIKE POWERPLAY OR CQC EVER AGAIN. They were both disasters, powerplay was utterly counterproductive because you allowed solo mode to undermine open mode. If you INSIST on keeping the powerplay mechanic in the game, make it OPEN ONLY, so faction backers can actively fight off those who wish to try to swap a system, at least that would be "emergent gameplay".

    If you are truly intending this game to stand tall even under the weight of Star Citizen, it wouldn't kill you to appoint some sort of ambassadors for the greater player population - something akin to Eve Onlines player council; that system has been incredibly successful and makes the playerbase feel like thier feedback is being taken seriously.

    Right now FDev seems as open to it's playerbase as Cheyenne mountain.

    STOP WITH THE "SOON(tm)" we hate it and it's not working for you.

    DO. NOT. GIVE. HARRY. POTTER (and co.) ANYTHING. OFFICIAL. TO. PLAY. WITH. He will break it, we know he will break it; YOU know he will break it. Don't be chumps twice.

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Rafe Zetter View Post (Source)
    Truzenzuzex must have gone for a visit back to Hivehom

    (give me +REP if you even understand what that means in relation to the OP, please don't explain it, it will be interesting to see how many true sci-fi geeks there are here without using google-fu)

    as for my answer - not how they normally do it, because clearly that isn't working for us, sorry, YOU; the players.

    More hotfixes as they are completed instead of rollouts en mass (if that's actually what they do, i'm still not convinced)

    work out what can be fixed quickly and deal with that - I know lots of people want specific areas fixed FIRST, but FDev badly need to repair thier reputation in this regard and putting out quite a few rapid rollouts of hotfixes, would help enormously (that actually work and aren't poorly thought out bandaids, so as to appear they are "doing something about it" as is their norm.)

    NO. MORE. RADIO. SILENCE.

    Cloud Imperium games has managed to stretch their dev time YEARS beyond the projected date simply because they are open and honest with their backers. Do you know how much hate they get when they add further delays? almost none. The only major ridicule CI gets is from this forum and it's white knights. Says a lot that does.

    Yes I know FDev tried this to a lesser extent and got shot down for it, but that was back then, and TBH they kinda deserved it because the stuff they told us was garbage, and they delivered garbage - things that weren't part of the original development layout in favor of things that to this day are largely ignored by a majority of the playerbase.

    STOP WITH THE FORCED "hey look at this it's amazing" youtubes. The last one I saw being touted was about how 2 FDev employees were trying out CQC or some guff. We don't care about seeing how 2 employees tried some stuffs ALREADY IN THE GAME. There are streamers aplenty to watch, with more skill and without the barely concealed attempts to generate interest in parts of the game most people would rather forget.

    DELIVER WHAT WAS PROMISED. Add all the missing parts from the KS. ALL OF IT, and in a way that's actually worth engaging with rather than YET ANOTHER goddamn placeholder.

    DO NOT ADD ANYTHING NOT IN THE DDF. I don't care how "good" some team member thinks his brainchild will be, the DDF is a veritable smorgasbord (look it up) of ideas that will keep you busy for at least a decade, at your rate of production more like 2. The vast majority of them are good and well thought out. You asked for them, you made people PAY TO DISCUSS THEM, why the hell aren't you using them? (the cynic in me has a reply to that but i'm going to play nice for this post)

    DO NOT DO ANYTHING LIKE POWERPLAY OR CQC EVER AGAIN. They were both disasters, powerplay was utterly counterproductive because you allowed solo mode to undermine open mode. If you INSIST on keeping the powerplay mechanic in the game, make it OPEN ONLY, so faction backers can actively fight off those who wish to try to swap a system, at least that would be "emergent gameplay".

    If you are truly intending this game to stand tall even under the weight of Star Citizen, it wouldn't kill you to appoint some sort of ambassadors for the greater player population - something akin to Eve Onlines player council; that system has been incredibly successful and makes the playerbase feel like thier feedback is being taken seriously.

    Right now FDev seems as open to it's playerbase as Cheyenne mountain.

    STOP WITH THE "SOON(tm)" we hate it and it's not working for you.

    DO. NOT. GIVE. HARRY. POTTER (and co.) ANYTHING. OFFICIAL. TO. PLAY. WITH. He will break it, we know he will break it; YOU know he will break it. Don't be chumps twice.
    Certainly a good read and written with a sense of Clarity Held throughout the entire post

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Rafe Zetter View Post (Source)
    Truzenzuzex must have gone for a visit back to Hivehom

    (give me +REP if you even understand what that means in relation to the OP, please don't explain it, it will be interesting to see how many true sci-fi geeks there are here without using google-fu)

    as for my answer - not how they normally do it, because clearly that isn't working for us, sorry, YOU; the players.

    More hotfixes as they are completed instead of rollouts en mass (if that's actually what they do, i'm still not convinced)

    work out what can be fixed quickly and deal with that - I know lots of people want specific areas fixed FIRST, but FDev badly need to repair thier reputation in this regard and putting out quite a few rapid rollouts of hotfixes, would help enormously (that actually work and aren't poorly thought out bandaids, so as to appear they are "doing something about it" as is their norm.)

    NO. MORE. RADIO. SILENCE.

    Cloud Imperium games has managed to stretch their dev time YEARS beyond the projected date simply because they are open and honest with their backers. Do you know how much hate they get when they add further delays? almost none. The only major ridicule CI gets is from this forum and it's white knights. Says a lot that does.

    Yes I know FDev tried this to a lesser extent and got shot down for it, but that was back then, and TBH they kinda deserved it because the stuff they told us was garbage, and they delivered garbage - things that weren't part of the original development layout in favor of things that to this day are largely ignored by a majority of the playerbase.

    STOP WITH THE FORCED "hey look at this it's amazing" youtubes. The last one I saw being touted was about how 2 FDev employees were trying out CQC or some guff. We don't care about seeing how 2 employees tried some stuffs ALREADY IN THE GAME. There are streamers aplenty to watch, with more skill and without the barely concealed attempts to generate interest in parts of the game most people would rather forget.

    DELIVER WHAT WAS PROMISED. Add all the missing parts from the KS. ALL OF IT, and in a way that's actually worth engaging with rather than YET ANOTHER goddamn placeholder.

    DO NOT ADD ANYTHING NOT IN THE DDF. I don't care how "good" some team member thinks his brainchild will be, the DDF is a veritable smorgasbord (look it up) of ideas that will keep you busy for at least a decade, at your rate of production more like 2. The vast majority of them are good and well thought out. You asked for them, you made people PAY TO DISCUSS THEM, why the hell aren't you using them? (the cynic in me has a reply to that but i'm going to play nice for this post)

    DO NOT DO ANYTHING LIKE POWERPLAY OR CQC EVER AGAIN. They were both disasters, powerplay was utterly counterproductive because you allowed solo mode to undermine open mode. If you INSIST on keeping the powerplay mechanic in the game, make it OPEN ONLY, so faction backers can actively fight off those who wish to try to swap a system, at least that would be "emergent gameplay".

    If you are truly intending this game to stand tall even under the weight of Star Citizen, it wouldn't kill you to appoint some sort of ambassadors for the greater player population - something akin to Eve Onlines player council; that system has been incredibly successful and makes the playerbase feel like thier feedback is being taken seriously.

    Right now FDev seems as open to it's playerbase as Cheyenne mountain.

    STOP WITH THE "SOON(tm)" we hate it and it's not working for you.

    DO. NOT. GIVE. HARRY. POTTER (and co.) ANYTHING. OFFICIAL. TO. PLAY. WITH. He will break it, we know he will break it; YOU know he will break it. Don't be chumps twice.
    Repped...hits the nail squarly on the head.

    Unfortunately, such a good post will almost certainly go unseen and unanswered because of one of the very thing ye highlight...RADIO SILENCE.

    The almost total lack of any meaningful communication is the very thing that has eroded the trust...now when someone from FD says 'Look at this new shiny...isnt this exciting?'...its usually not very exciting at all as the end result is average at best, with other results just being downright absurd and laughable, heavily bugged with bugs which were hilariously pointed out during the beta and still released to the live version. All of this happens because of busted communication...and the only ones who can fix that are frontier and the irony is, they arent listening.

    This gives rise to the belief they simply dont care...if they genuinely cared, there wouldnt be a stone wall of silence. Trying to crack jokes with each other during a livestream on CQC is not what I consider effective communication...thats just two devs playing something nobody else does and harping on about how much fun it really is. Its really not, its just a very obvious attempt at promoting near dead aspects of the game and has absolutely nothing to do with constructive or effective communication at all.

    But, there will be others here who will argue everything is as it should be because it was the players who caused this to happen. I regard this as a feeble excuse at best...a deflection because theres a plethora of game devs out there from other games who are very open with their playerbases and appear to suffer no ill effects. If anything, it actually creates a stronger bond of trust and loyalty, whereas here all it achieves is bitterness and confusion and mistrust.

    Its not the players who caused this whatsoever...its frontiers inability to deal with actual people that caused this to happen. First step would be to fire everyone involved with public relations and hire people who actually know what they doing ie...people who know how to handle negative criticism without throwing all the toys outta the pram while blaming everyone else fer their shortcomings ^

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